[RikudouGoku]

I was thinking about the influence that impedance adapters (that fit between DAC and IEM on purpose) have on the frequency response.

Well, I thought, perhaps the choice of having such a high output impedance has something to do with this matter?

Alright, here we go.

Source impedance effect on transducer frequency response​

Does the source impedance, that is, the impedance from both the transducer cable AND the OUTPUT Impedance from the amp combined have any effect on the frequency response? If so, are there any criteria for it to happen? Does it matter to you as a buyer/consumer?
1: The source impedance CAN have an effect on the FR and thus, what we are hearing from our setup.

2.1: There are requirements for it to happen. First, you need a transducer with an UN-even impedance response. Single DDs and Planars have a flat impedance curve so they DO NOT qualify. Single BAs, hybrids and multi-drivers have an UN-even impedance curve so they DO qualify and thus they CAN be affected by source impedance. The next criteria that need to be fulfilled, is that the impedance of the transducer needs to be low (usually under 16ohm@1kHz could be considered as low impedance). And lastly, the source impedance between setup A and B needs to be sufficiently different enough to actually matter (for example a difference of 0.1ohm is really not going to have an audible change but 1ohm is likely).
2.2: You can use this website ( https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/index.php ) to check for yourself. For example, take the iem Tansio Mirai TSMR-4 pro. First you need to check the impedance response of it, is it uneven and low impedance?

(link: https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/param14.php )
It is uneven and the impedance at the lowest point (around 5kHz) is around 10ohm and thus it has the requirements that needs to be there for the FR to change with source impedance. Now we can go ahead and use the “The comparison of frequency responses from joint work of amplifiers and headphones - Direct comparison of graphs” feature on that site (link: https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/param7.php ) and look up the FR of the TSMR-4 Pro with the apple dongle (0.9ohm OI, source ASR)

Then compare that with another source that has a different OI, for example the Fiio K5 Pro (2.2ohm OI, source ASR)

And you can spot the difference in FR at around 2kHz-10kHz (notice also how that is the area where the impedance curve of the TSMR-4 Pro is lower than the rest).
And this is also reflected upon my own squig of it.

(Although with only a difference of 0.31ohm, the gain difference is around 1-2db)
But with a much higher OI, like the Loxjie P20 (apparently 40-50 ohm OI)

The difference is much more dramatic.

2.3: Now take for example a single DD like the Tanchjim Oxygen.

Completely flat impedance curve, so source impedance will not have any effects on the FR.

3: So, does source impedance matter to you as a buyer/consumer? As shown above, it depends on what transducers you have/plan to use. If you are solely using single DDs or single Planars then it will not matter at all. But if you have single BAs, hybrids, multi-drivers then it is something you should take into consideration. Generally, it is best to aim for under 1ohm OI from the amp while you really do not have to think much about the cable impedance as they generally measures under 0.3ohm (for iem cables at least).

 

[FastGecko5]

Simgot is taking all the money and goodwill they achieved with the EA500, and they are going to throw caution to the wind and see what the hell sticks?

1+4 is this season's planars. They gotta get on the train lol.

 

[gadgetgod]

This is how I lost approx 1000$ this month.

So my good friend @Ace Bee got to know that I have got the coupler and just trying my hands on different stuff. That's when he sent me his unit of D's Audio First Heart, a single DD IEM that had a super amazing sound. The clarity, the tonality, the bass, everything sounded so great on the set that I instantly urged him to help me get one as well. While I was exploring D's Audio Catalog on Instagram, I came across an IEM that I instantly liked by its looks, it was named D'S Audio Fire Phoenix, so I asked Ace to help me with the price. When I got to know it is priced at 9680HKD approx 1300$ i lost my crap. I was like let's save up and we will get this one, let's skip the First Heart since Ace Bee already has it. I was thinking about it, but i couldn't get the design and the look of the pair out of my mind. Secondly i was thinking since this guy makes a 500$ product(First Heart) this good, I wonder how amazing his flagship might be. well, i know i might be wrong here, but i was having great intuition inside regarding the pair and the maker as well, that i planned to go in blind. Ace Bee was also getting a pair for himself(of a different customized IEM), i asked him to help me grab the Fire Phoenix. And here it is all prepared and shipped for me. I just can't wait for another 10-15 days when this beautiful IEM reaches my hands. I am all fingers crossed that this better sound great!! and Honestly after First Heart, i am super positive about this as well!! Will post some impressions once i receive it, but this is how i am almost a 1000$ down this time
Here's my Phoenix <3

Man the Fire-Phoenix logo right on the face cover is so powerful!!

& here's the customized Lycane for Ace Bee it's a 1DD+4BA hybrid he chose, I wanted a single DD so mine is the Fire Phoenix!!

 

[rggz]

If you are solely using single DDs or single Planars then it will not matter at all.

I'd say that was true before KZ (e.g. KZ ZVX and PR2) and some chi-fi companies adopted switches and started implementing Zobel network as a tuning method. For those 1DD and planars the impedance might be wonky and thus prone to tuning changes from high-ish output impdance sources (kinda rare nowadays anyway).

 

[RikudouGoku]

I'd say that was true before KZ (e.g. KZ ZVX and PR2) and some chi-fi companies adopted switches and started implementing Zobel network as a tuning method. For those 1DD and planars the impedance might be wonky and thus prone to tuning changes from high-ish output impdance sources (kinda rare nowadays anyway).

There are requirements for it to happen. First, you need a transducer with an UN-even impedance response. Single DDs and Planars have a flat impedance curve so they DO NOT qualify. Single BAs, hybrids and multi-drivers have an UN-even impedance curve so they DO qualify and thus they CAN be affected by source impedance.

 

[rggz]

There are requirements for it to happen. First, you need a transducer with an UN-even impedance response. Single DDs and Planars have a flat impedance curve so they DO NOT qualify. Single BAs, hybrids and multi-drivers have an UN-even impedance curve so they DO qualify and thus they CAN be affected by source impedance.

Indeed, that's very obvious and kindergarten knowledge. I'm just pointing out the current fringe cases.

 

[Ferdinando1968]

Alright, here we go.

Source impedance effect on transducer frequency response​

Does the source impedance, that is, the impedance from both the transducer cable AND the OUTPUT Impedance from the amp combined have any effect on the frequency response? If so, are there any criteria for it to happen? Does it matter to you as a buyer/consumer?
1: The source impedance CAN have an effect on the FR and thus, what we are hearing from our setup.

2.1: There are requirements for it to happen. First, you need a transducer with an UN-even impedance response. Single DDs and Planars have a flat impedance curve so they DO NOT qualify. Single BAs, hybrids and multi-drivers have an UN-even impedance curve so they DO qualify and thus they CAN be affected by source impedance. The next criteria that need to be fulfilled, is that the impedance of the transducer needs to be low (usually under 16ohm@1kHz could be considered as low impedance). And lastly, the source impedance between setup A and B needs to be sufficiently different enough to actually matter (for example a difference of 0.1ohm is really not going to have an audible change but 1ohm is likely).
2.2: You can use this website ( https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/index.php ) to check for yourself. For example, take the iem Tansio Mirai TSMR-4 pro. First you need to check the impedance response of it, is it uneven and low impedance?

(link: https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/param14.php )
It is uneven and the impedance at the lowest point (around 5kHz) is around 10ohm and thus it has the requirements that needs to be there for the FR to change with source impedance. Now we can go ahead and use the “The comparison of frequency responses from joint work of amplifiers and headphones - Direct comparison of graphs” feature on that site (link: https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/param7.php ) and look up the FR of the TSMR-4 Pro with the apple dongle (0.9ohm OI, source ASR)

Then compare that with another source that has a different OI, for example the Fiio K5 Pro (2.2ohm OI, source ASR)

And you can spot the difference in FR at around 2kHz-10kHz (notice also how that is the area where the impedance curve of the TSMR-4 Pro is lower than the rest).
And this is also reflected upon my own squig of it.

(Although with only a difference of 0.31ohm, the gain difference is around 1-2db)
But with a much higher OI, like the Loxjie P20 (apparently 40-50 ohm OI)

The difference is much more dramatic.

2.3: Now take for example a single DD like the Tanchjim Oxygen.

Completely flat impedance curve, so source impedance will not have any effects on the FR.




3: So, does source impedance matter to you as a buyer/consumer? As shown above, it depends on what transducers you have/plan to use. If you are solely using single DDs or single Planars then it will not matter at all. But if you have single BAs, hybrids, multi-drivers then it is something you should take into consideration. Generally, it is best to aim for under 1ohm OI from the amp while you really do not have to think much about the cable impedance as they generally measures under 0.3ohm (for iem cables at least).

First of all, thank you for the explanation and for your time.

I ask you: the reason why dynamics and planars have a regular/flat impedance curve (as a function of frequency) is because they are purely resistive loads, therefore they do not have reactive components (capacitance, inductance)?

If so, I have to assume that the BAs are not purely resistive loads.

If so, I have to assume that hybrid IEMs are not purely resistive loads (and this I can easily guess, if only by the presence of capacitive reactive components in the crossover).

If so, I can see why amplifier output impedance does not affect frequency response into loads with a flat impedance curve.
An amplifier with high output impedance will require more volume to drive the load and waste more power internally itself, but other than that, it will not affect the frequency response of the IEM.

I also ask: do you know if the impedance curve of amplifiers/DACs is also flat as a function of frequency (like DDs and Planars)?

 

[Leonarfd]

Gladiator Cables

Need to mention this, long time since last time I had a cable from a small maker. My friend told me about Gladiator Cables, got in contact with him trough Discord to make a cable for my incoming Aurora. Really good guy, enjoyed our talk on deciding on hardware and wire and so on. Very helpsome, but of course he tries to sell to me

Landed on 22.5awg 6N copper cable with the sleeve I was interested in. The 4.4mm plug is a pure copper plug with chrome outer coating. Price came around at a little over 100usd, and I think this is justified since its custom made in Italy. Not going to talk about technicalities, it is pure good copper cable.

I am very happy. Also quite comfortable to be 22.5awg.

@GladiatorCables
https://gladiatorcables.com/

 

[Surf Monkey]

1+4 is this season's planars. They gotta get on the train lol.

It’s kind of a mix so far this year. The top configurations appear to include:

1) Dual dynamic drivers

2) 1DD + xBAs

3) xDDs + xBAs + PZT positioned as bone conduction.

Planar appears to be entirely absent from this year’s lineups, which seems strange. I would have expected to see some planar + DD or some other hybrid situation. But nope. Dynamics are back with a vengeance.

 

[Ferdinando1968]

It’s kind of a mix so far this year. The top configurations appear to include:

1) Dual dynamic drivers

2) 1DD + xBAs

3) xDDs + xBAs + PZT positioned as bone conduction.

Planar appears to be entirely absent from this year’s lineups, which seems strange. I would have expected to see some planar + DD or some other hybrid situation. But nope. Dynamics are back with a vengeance.

I can confess that, as a true nerd that I am,
I am excited by the idea of the KIWI QUINTET with all that jumble of different drivers.

Maybe it will sound crap (nice curves or not) or maybe it will sound divine, I don't care.

I can't think of anything else but getting my hands and ears on that thing

 

[Nimweth]

1+4 is this season's planars. They gotta get on the train lol.

Funny how things come round again. Makes me think, amongst others, of TRN V90, CVJ Plume, KZ ZS10 and my favourite 1DD+4BA the classic ZS7. TRN's ST5 is a good one as well.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I can confess that, as a true nerd that I am,
I am excited by the idea of the KIWI QUINTET with all that jumble of different drivers.

Maybe it will sound crap (nice curves or not) or maybe it will sound divine, I don't care.

I can't think of anything else but getting my hands and ears on that thing

Right. I forgot the Quintet has a planar driver. Agree. I want to hear that one for sure.

 

[RikudouGoku]

I ask you: the reason why dynamics and planars have a regular/flat impedance curve (as a function of frequency) is because they are purely resistive loads, therefore they do not have reactive components (capacitance, inductance)?

If so, I have to assume that the BAs are not purely resistive loads.

If so, I have to assume that hybrid IEMs are not purely resistive loads (and this I can easily guess, if only by the presence of capacitive reactive components in the crossover).

If so, I can see why amplifier output impedance does not affect frequency response into loads with a flat impedance curve.
An amplifier with high output impedance will require more volume to drive the load and waste more power internally itself, but other than that, it will not affect the frequency response of the IEM.

This is going into the design/manufacturing of the drivers, which is where I honestly have no clue about.

I also ask: do you know if the impedance curve of amplifiers/DACs is also flat as a function of frequency (like DDs and Planars)?

I believe they are all flat.

 

[BigGearHunter]

Tanchijim on chinese SNS said they will release KARA during 6/15-18 globally. 1080CNY=150USD.

Customers purchased KARA during that period will have a freebie of Asano Tanchi LegoBlock.


Anyway, if international price is 150USD, with those AE summer sale coupons…

Wait…did I say “I’m out of this IEM game” earlier this afternoon?

Actual price for international seems to be $179.

I honestly don't care one bit about the price, I have been chasing this IEM for a year since it was first teased alongside the Space, that was like a year ago. I already placed my order, I hope it sounds as good as it looks

 

[bschnell9]

Indeed, that's very obvious and kindergarten knowledge. I'm just pointing out the current fringe cases.

I didn’t learn that in kindergarten so I VERY much appreciated that insight. Thank you @RikudouGoku