[rodel808]

IMO, the Xelento is still superior to the Fiio FD5/Final E5000 (overall resolution is better on Xelento but I love the bass on E5000 when paired with the right source). The likes of Dunu Zen, Moondrop Illumination, however, are superior IEMs in 2021. I am also looking forward to the upcoming Dunu Falcon C and would like to see how a mid-tier IEM can compete with the good ol' Xelento.

Thank you for that insight. I have yet to hear any of Dunu's offerings so I'm not familiar with their "house sound" if they do have any. I have both Xelento and E5000 and I do agree with what you say about resolution. E5000 the second most "darkest" (meaning I don't hear much energy in the upper regions) sounding iem I've heard. Zhiyin z5000 being the darkest in stock form. The z5000 has been one of my first chifi purchase since I started this hobby and I still keep it as it my #1 bass head iem (ex800 tape mod is #2). I also had a CA Vega and did find that it did a hell of a job in the bass department but the upper mids and treble was way too strident and caused fatigue for me within a short amount of listening time. Vega later then got replaced with Xelento which I preferred where it has a more balanced sound to my ears yet still satisfying my bass head cravings. There's not alot of single dd offerings and I find them having something special with their sound compared to multi drivers. With that said, I am excited to see how the new upcoming single planar 7hz Timeless turns out.

 

[Dsnuts]

I actually like the FH5s over the FD5. But as Ds have stated here many times, you have to put the right cable (pure copper) on it and find the right ear tips. After over 100 hours of burn-in, the FH5s perform mightly!

You should try this cable ericp. This thing is a must for FH5s owners. It has a $30 discount as well.I need to try it with the FD5 as well. It is imo Fiios best cable. This is the cable they are including with their pro models for both the FD3 and the FH5s.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...&terminal_id=eb6c806797064113b51d887cdadc8467

 

[ehjie]

In one word: Astounded!!!

I put them in my ears today, and I cannot find almost any flaw in it.... I'm just entranced, and been listening to music with it for 2 hours now, couldn't stop. Tried all my sources, it sings from everything!

My heartiest thanks, @Dsnuts for pushing me to get it. One of the best decisions ever! This is one winner iem for sure!

Surprisingly, this does not have any kind of less bass from a stock 3DT, proving all my worries totally unnecessary...if anything, its bass has more body, thickness, and presence than 3DT, with which I am extremely pleased and content.

Currently I am just lost in this track. The album is brilliant!

Did the pair Hit your Treble sweet spot?

 

[Ace Bee]

Did the pair Hit your Treble sweet spot?

Most definitely It has all the air and sparkles without uncomfortable peaks - marvelous!! What's more, the bass did not disappoint too! I was honestly worried that the bass is going to turn out like See Audio Yume...I could not have been further away from truth.

 

[Vladimir 198]

unnecessary question, deleted.

 

[SHOOTINGTECHIE]

I presently have both in front of me (just took the photo before writing this haha), and I can say with absolute certainty that the Holocene is a step down from the Dunu Zen in every aspect barring soundstage width and upper-treble extension.

The bass on the Holocene lacks the physicality, slam, and rumble of the Dunu Zen. Vocals are more laid back and doesn't have the same engagement factor of the Zen. As a result, the Zen sound more up-front whereas the Holocene goes for an atmospheric tuning.

Dynamics are also superior on the Zen by a margin. For my tastes, I will pick Zen most of the times over Holocene, but I do think the Holocene can be good/great for those who aren't fond of up-front mids and want a laid back presentation with wide staging.

For me the Holocene has better bass beginning , texture and also better nuanced bass too , vocals yes are more better in zen with them being more foreward but micro details with transperancy seemed lacking
But I always state this is a highly subjective hobby

 

[Ace Bee]

unnecessary question, deleted.

Nah I read that, and of course not! I just shared the youtube link because it's easily visible to all, regardless of subscription. I always listen from either Apple Lossless, or flac/alac/wav etc. I do not take sharing impression lightly, and will always use the best possible chain. You can be assured of that.

 

[baskingshark]

There's a very nice new company on the block called TForce, they just released a $100ish USD single DD set, the TForce Yuan Li.

I had the privilege to try the original tour beta version, that set was a mild V shaped set with excellent resolution, great timbre and technical performance, but it had a too hot upper mids area, which could lead to fatigue and shoutiness. I thought the original version was otherwise a very good set at the $100 range, and it was a true upgrade to the hotly hyped HZSound Heart Mirror in almost all departments.

So TForce took feedback from the original tour participants and came up with a final tuning that tamed the upper mids/lower treble region:

Spoiler: Graph of TForce Beta version versus Final version

Today, I had the privilege of getting a review unit of the final version Yuan Li and to cut to the chase, it is a very good set indeed.

The Yuan Li comes in a nice box with chinese characters and imagery. The usual otaku Anime girl is passe ain't it? Sorry M**nd**p fans, I know they have some anime girl controversy going on now here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/moo...ressions-thread.894139/page-655#post-16536452, but that's another story for another day.



The accessories included on the Yuan Li are pretty generous for a $100ish set, it comes with an array of silicone and foam tips, a nice leather pouch and cable, in addition to the IEMs. I've definitely seen similar priced gear with way worse accessories, cough cough TRN.





The cable has slight microphonics but is very well braided and usable.

The shells are made of a mirror like metal finish and of very solid build. It is a fingerprint and scratch magnet though, so do be careful with the beautiful shells. Despite being made of metal, it is very comfortable and light.



Isolation is average to above average, as per vented sets, it won't be as isolating as a non vented set.

This set needs amping to scale better. It sounds meh from a low powered source. So one won't be getting the full potential if the Yuan Li is paired with a weak source.

Tonality wise, this set is a very balanced mild U shaped set.

Bass is just slightly north of neutral, it doesn't extend the most in subbass and lacks rumble, so bassheads may need to look elsewhere. But what it cedes in bass quantity and extension, the Yuan Li makes it up in having great bass quality. The Yuan Li sports a fast and tight bass with above average texturing with minimal midbass bleed.

Mids are slightly depressed, the lack of a boomy mid bass may give a lack of warmth to the mids, but nevertheless the midrange is very transparent and clear, with good layers heard. I'm glad to report that compared to the prerelease version, this final version of the Yuan Li has very tamed upper mids. They are very safe and non fatiguing, and suited for longer listening sessions. Treble on this set has good clarity and microdetails, yet manages to balance a fine line of not veering into fatiguing territory. Sibilance is none to very mild.

For a single DD IEM, technicalities on the Yuan Li are very good. Imaging and instrument separation and micro-details are excellent, I think in the technicalities department, the Yuan Li is better than most single DD types at this price range. Soundstage however is on the intimate side, but it makes up for having a slightly narrower soundstage with good pinpoint imaging. I rather have that than something with a big soundstage but very fuzzy and nebulous imaging.

Timbral accuracy is great as per its single DD roots, vocals and acoustic instruments sound organic and natural.



I did some A/B testing with these 3 sets:
1) Compared to the hyped HZSound Heart Mirror (neutralish bright set): the Yuan Li beats the Heart Mirror in almost every department (timbre, tonality, technicalities).

2) When compared with the venerable Tanchjim Oxygen, the Oxygen beats the Yuan Li in technicalities (soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, details) and has a slightly more natural timbre. The Tanchjim Oxygen has better bass texturing and also a more extended treble and air. Oxygen is also easier to drive. But considering the Tanchjim Oxygen is 2.5x the price of the Yuan Li, I think the Yuan Li can hit about 70% of the technical performance of the Oxygen, so that's nothing to sniff at. I'll call the Yuan Li a baby Oxygen, and perhaps those that can't get an Oxygen due to availability or price, can consider the Yuan Li as a cheaper alternative.

3) Compared to the original beta tour unit of TForce Yuan Li. The original version had a fatiguing and shouty upper mids as discussed previously. In comparison, the final Yuan Li has a tamed upper mids/lower treble and it does lose a slight bit of sparkle and a slight tinge of resolution compared to the beta version. The original beta version also had a thinner note weight. But I guess there are trade offs to be made, and there is really no point having a lot of details at the expense of ear fatigue?



So this new company TForce has really come up with a great debut product with the Yuan Li. Generous accessories, great build, nice shell and good sound melded into one nice single DD. Tonality, timbre and technicalities are excellent for a single DD, and I'd call the Yuan Li a baby Tanchjim Oxygen; this set is a very balanced set that scores highly in most areas, other than perhaps subbass extension and soundstage.

Actually if TForce can come up with some pro version that has interchangable nozzles to switch between the beta version and the final version, I think trebleheads can be included in the recommendations list, but I think most folks other than diehead trebleheads and bassheads will find something to like about the final Yuan Li. Definitely one of the better releases for 2021.

 

[RikudouGoku]

There's a very nice new company on the block called TForce, they just released a $100ish USD single DD set, the TForce Yuan Li.

I had the privilege to try the original tour beta version, that set was a mild V shaped set with excellent resolution, great timbre and technical performance, but it had a too hot upper mids area, which could lead to fatigue and shoutiness. I thought the original version was otherwise a very good set at the $100 range, and it was a true upgrade to the hotly hyped HZSound Heart Mirror in almost all departments.

So TForce took feedback from the original tour participants and came up with a final tuning that tamed the upper mids/lower treble region:

Spoiler: Graph of TForce Beta version versus Final version

Today, I had the privilege of getting a review unit of the final version Yuan Li and to cut to the chase, it is a very good set indeed.

The Yuan Li comes in a nice box with chinese characters and imagery. The usual otaku Anime girl is passe ain't it? Sorry M**nd**p fans, I know they have some anime girl controversy going on now here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/moo...ressions-thread.894139/page-655#post-16536452, but that's another story for another day.



The accessories included on the Yuan Li are pretty generous for a $100ish set, it comes with an array of silicone and foam tips, a nice leather pouch and cable, in addition to the IEMs. I've definitely seen similar priced gear with way worse accessories, cough cough TRN.





The cable has slight microphonics but is very well braided and usable.

The shells are made of a mirror like metal finish and of very solid build. It is a fingerprint and scratch magnet though, so do be careful with the beautiful shells. Despite being made of metal, it is very comfortable and light.



Isolation is average to above average, as per vented sets, it won't be as isolating as a non vented set.

This set needs amping to scale better. It sounds meh from a low powered source. So one won't be getting the full potential if the Yuan Li is paired with a weak source.

Tonality wise, this set is a very balanced mild U shaped set.

Bass is just slightly north of neutral, it doesn't extend the most in subbass and lacks rumble, so bassheads may need to look elsewhere. But what it cedes in bass quantity and extension, the Yuan Li makes it up in having great bass quality. The Yuan Li sports a fast and tight bass with above average texturing with minimal midbass bleed.

Mids are slightly depressed, the lack of a boomy mid bass may give a lack of warmth to the mids, but nevertheless the midrange is very transparent and clear, with good layers heard. I'm glad to report that compared to the prerelease version, this final version of the Yuan Li has very tamed upper mids. They are very safe and non fatiguing, and suited for longer listening sessions. Treble on this set has good clarity and microdetails, yet manages to balance a fine line of not veering into fatiguing territory. Sibilance is none to very mild.

For a single DD IEM, technicalities on the Yuan Li are very good. Imaging and instrument separation and micro-details are excellent, I think in the technicalities department, the Yuan Li is better than most single DD types at this price range. Soundstage however is on the intimate side, but it makes up for having a slightly narrower soundstage with good pinpoint imaging. I rather have that than something with a big soundstage but very fuzzy and nebulous imaging.

Timbral accuracy is great as per its single DD roots, vocals and acoustic instruments sound organic and natural.



I did some A/B testing with these 3 sets:
1) Compared to the hyped HZSound Heart Mirror (neutralish bright set): the Yuan Li beats the Heart Mirror in almost every department (timbre, tonality, technicalities).

2) When compared with the venerable Tanchjim Oxygen, the Oxygen beats the Yuan Li in technicalities (soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, details) and has a slightly more natural timbre. The Tanchjim Oxygen has better bass texturing and also a more extended treble and air. Oxygen is also easier to drive. But considering the Tanchjim Oxygen is 2.5x the price of the Yuan Li, I think the Yuan Li can hit about 70% of the technical performance of the Oxygen, so that's nothing to sniff at. I'll call the Yuan Li a baby Oxygen, and perhaps those that can't get an Oxygen due to availability or price, can consider the Yuan Li as a cheaper alternative.

3) Compared to the original beta tour unit of TForce Yuan Li. The original version had a fatiguing and shouty upper mids as discussed previously. In comparison, the final Yuan Li has a tamed upper mids/lower treble and it does lose a slight bit of sparkle and a slight tinge of resolution compared to the beta version. The original beta version also had a thinner note weight. But I guess there are trade offs to be made, and there is really no point having a lot of details at the expense of ear fatigue?



So this new company TForce has really come up with a great debut product with the Yuan Li. Generous accessories, great build, nice shell and good sound melded into one nice single DD. Tonality, timbre and technicalities are excellent for a single DD, and I'd call the Yuan Li a baby Tanchjim Oxygen; this set is a very balanced set that scores highly in most areas, other than perhaps subbass extension and soundstage.

Actually if TForce can come up with some pro version that has interchangable nozzles to switch between the beta version and the final version, I think trebleheads can be included in the recommendations list, but I think most folks other than diehead trebleheads and bassheads will find something to like about the final Yuan Li. Definitely one of the better releases for 2021.

It is pretty different from the Oxygen to me. More like an iem version of the K´s LBBS earbud.

 

[baskingshark]

It is pretty different from the Oxygen to me. More like an iem version of the K´s LBBS earbud.

Haha k not to be OCD about it but the graphs are similar ish, mostly slight differences at the upper mids/treble onwards.

But yeah Oxygen definitely has more treble and air from listening (and on the graphs).

 

[RikudouGoku]

Haha k not to be OCD about it but the graphs are similar ish, mostly slight differences at the upper mids/treble onwards.

But yeah Oxygen definitely has more treble and air from listening (and on the graphs).

Which is ironic because the air looks pretty much identical on graph (upper-treble 10k+). But Oxygen definitely has more air and upper-treble to me.
Which is why their counterparts in the bud world:

Oxygen = Chaconne
Yuan Li = LBBS

 

[iFi audio]

Never tried the Zen DAC. I still own a IFI Black Label though

As far as general profile goes, they're tuned to be in the ballpark of our house sound, so more warm and natural that outlined and detailed.

 

[chickenmoon]

I ended not liking the Yuan Li overall, the upper range is too, and only dominated, by the 3kHz peak, when you push'em a bit they sound quite unnatural to me, becoming shouty all the while lacking proper treble. Bass is nice though, goes real deep.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

There's a very nice new company on the block called TForce, they just released a $100ish USD single DD set, the TForce Yuan Li.

I had the privilege to try the original tour beta version, that set was a mild V shaped set with excellent resolution, great timbre and technical performance, but it had a too hot upper mids area, which could lead to fatigue and shoutiness. I thought the original version was otherwise a very good set at the $100 range, and it was a true upgrade to the hotly hyped HZSound Heart Mirror in almost all departments.

So TForce took feedback from the original tour participants and came up with a final tuning that tamed the upper mids/lower treble region:

Spoiler: Graph of TForce Beta version versus Final version

Today, I had the privilege of getting a review unit of the final version Yuan Li and to cut to the chase, it is a very good set indeed.

The Yuan Li comes in a nice box with chinese characters and imagery. The usual otaku Anime girl is passe ain't it? Sorry M**nd**p fans, I know they have some anime girl controversy going on now here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/moo...ressions-thread.894139/page-655#post-16536452, but that's another story for another day.



The accessories included on the Yuan Li are pretty generous for a $100ish set, it comes with an array of silicone and foam tips, a nice leather pouch and cable, in addition to the IEMs. I've definitely seen similar priced gear with way worse accessories, cough cough TRN.





The cable has slight microphonics but is very well braided and usable.

The shells are made of a mirror like metal finish and of very solid build. It is a fingerprint and scratch magnet though, so do be careful with the beautiful shells. Despite being made of metal, it is very comfortable and light.



Isolation is average to above average, as per vented sets, it won't be as isolating as a non vented set.

This set needs amping to scale better. It sounds meh from a low powered source. So one won't be getting the full potential if the Yuan Li is paired with a weak source.

Tonality wise, this set is a very balanced mild U shaped set.

Bass is just slightly north of neutral, it doesn't extend the most in subbass and lacks rumble, so bassheads may need to look elsewhere. But what it cedes in bass quantity and extension, the Yuan Li makes it up in having great bass quality. The Yuan Li sports a fast and tight bass with above average texturing with minimal midbass bleed.

Mids are slightly depressed, the lack of a boomy mid bass may give a lack of warmth to the mids, but nevertheless the midrange is very transparent and clear, with good layers heard. I'm glad to report that compared to the prerelease version, this final version of the Yuan Li has very tamed upper mids. They are very safe and non fatiguing, and suited for longer listening sessions. Treble on this set has good clarity and microdetails, yet manages to balance a fine line of not veering into fatiguing territory. Sibilance is none to very mild.

For a single DD IEM, technicalities on the Yuan Li are very good. Imaging and instrument separation and micro-details are excellent, I think in the technicalities department, the Yuan Li is better than most single DD types at this price range. Soundstage however is on the intimate side, but it makes up for having a slightly narrower soundstage with good pinpoint imaging. I rather have that than something with a big soundstage but very fuzzy and nebulous imaging.

Timbral accuracy is great as per its single DD roots, vocals and acoustic instruments sound organic and natural.



I did some A/B testing with these 3 sets:
1) Compared to the hyped HZSound Heart Mirror (neutralish bright set): the Yuan Li beats the Heart Mirror in almost every department (timbre, tonality, technicalities).

2) When compared with the venerable Tanchjim Oxygen, the Oxygen beats the Yuan Li in technicalities (soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, details) and has a slightly more natural timbre. The Tanchjim Oxygen has better bass texturing and also a more extended treble and air. Oxygen is also easier to drive. But considering the Tanchjim Oxygen is 2.5x the price of the Yuan Li, I think the Yuan Li can hit about 70% of the technical performance of the Oxygen, so that's nothing to sniff at. I'll call the Yuan Li a baby Oxygen, and perhaps those that can't get an Oxygen due to availability or price, can consider the Yuan Li as a cheaper alternative.

3) Compared to the original beta tour unit of TForce Yuan Li. The original version had a fatiguing and shouty upper mids as discussed previously. In comparison, the final Yuan Li has a tamed upper mids/lower treble and it does lose a slight bit of sparkle and a slight tinge of resolution compared to the beta version. The original beta version also had a thinner note weight. But I guess there are trade offs to be made, and there is really no point having a lot of details at the expense of ear fatigue?



So this new company TForce has really come up with a great debut product with the Yuan Li. Generous accessories, great build, nice shell and good sound melded into one nice single DD. Tonality, timbre and technicalities are excellent for a single DD, and I'd call the Yuan Li a baby Tanchjim Oxygen; this set is a very balanced set that scores highly in most areas, other than perhaps subbass extension and soundstage.

Actually if TForce can come up with some pro version that has interchangable nozzles to switch between the beta version and the final version, I think trebleheads can be included in the recommendations list, but I think most folks other than diehead trebleheads and bassheads will find something to like about the final Yuan Li. Definitely one of the better releases for 2021.

Wow nice leather case!

I heard Yuan Li is a part of trilogy, rest assured it will be a nice incoming part 2 and 3, I wonder what that would be, BA hybrids, and EST hybrids maybe?

 

[AmericanSpirit]

I ended not liking the Yuan Li overall, the upper range is too, and only dominated, by the 3kHz peak, when you push'em a bit they sound quite unnatural to me, becoming shouty all the while lacking proper treble. Bass is nice though, goes real deep.

Understandable that recently trending moondrop style 3khz pinna gain peak seekers are not for everyone, especially for upper-mid sensitive audiences, it will sound unnatural and tinny. Especially when it comes with a dynamic driver’s sound pressure, could offset some audiences appetite