[peter123]

Did this thread get moved to the sound science sub forum?

 

[Ziggomatic]

Did this thread get moved to the sound science sub forum?

Science?

 

[Spiralman]

You are right. I am done now.
So what about completely "new", "redesigned" NX7 Pro? How it sounds comparing to usual hybrid multi-BA suspects like ZXS?

 

[citral23]

Measurements don't mean squat. At best, they can give an indication as to what your ears and brain might be perceiving but they certainly don't tell the whole story.

Yes for sure, it doesn't say anything about timbre for example. But here we're talking about different cables adding or substracting bass. Are you going to claim that there is some bass quantity that cannot be graphed, too?

I've heard it all anyway. People who become aggressive and vehement when one asks for measures to backup bold claims, or energetically refuse blindtests because they "don't tell the whole story".

 

[Light - Man]

Yes for sure, it doesn't say anything about timbre for example. But here we're talking about different cables adding or substracting bass. Are you going to claim that there is some bass quantity that cannot be graphed, too?

I've heard it all anyway. People who become aggressive and vehement when one asks for measures to backup bold claims, or energetically refuse blindtests because they "don't tell the whole story".

I happen to be one who is a believer that a cable can make a small difference while others do not believe so.

Most of us do not really care what others think about the subject. That is why there is a sound science section....................

Perhaps best to let sleeping dogs lie...........

 

[citral23]

I happen to be one who is a believer that a cable can make a small difference while others do not believe so.

Most of us do not really care what others think about the subject. That is why there is a sound science section....................

Perhaps best to let sleeping dogs lie...........

I have no problem with that. Anyone can believe what he wants including that the earth is flat (measurements are bullcrap anyway, I trust my vision, the horizon looks flat), but when I read stuff like "If you can't hear the difference I don't know what to say" it angers me.

Passive-agressive way to lower someone by implying his ears or judgement are not good enough to hear a difference that has never been proven, I find it totally toxic.

 

[jon parker]

I have no problem with that. Anyone can believe what he wants including that the earth is flat (measurements are bullcrap anyway, I trust my vision, the horizon looks flat), but when I read stuff like "If you can't hear the difference I don't know what to say" it angers me.

Passive-agressive way to lower someone by implying his ears or judgement are not good enough to hear a difference that has never been proven, I find it totally toxic.

Its equally as annoying hearing those who will not believe people when they share that they hear differences that they themselves do not and then claim that if you cant see it on a graph it doesn't exist.
I guess its frustrating for both sides
You have one side who hear the subtle differences in different cables, IEM's differences after burn in etc etc and report such changes
and the other side who do not hear differences but may point to graphs or demand evidence to back up their assertions.

End of the day, such illustrations such as graphs can point to certain characteristics which tells a part of the story but is there a machine yet even created that is subtle enough to measure such subtle changes or to measure timbre or other aspects of the sound?

All I was trying to say before is that our hearing is incredible and has the capacity to go way beyond the physical aspects of a physical measurement..that is all!!
At no point did I deny how we use certain 'rules' and measurements when for example creating headphones ?

So let me also say in a petulant voice - I am done


NB: Just wanted to add. Its not always easy to get ones intended meaning across in an internet forum. Its much better (talking to myself here as well) if someone says something you disagree with ask them what they mean, ask them to clarify and expand on their points. Even if you get a better understanding of what they are trying to say and you still disagree at least you have had a conversation - a sharing of different view points rather than just immediately shutting people down and grasping at your own views strongly

 

[jon parker]

Anyway...talking of discoveries. I know there is a thread for them but...
the new Shuoer Tape (electrostatic / DD) is turning into a stunning IEM. The clarity and heights that the highs reach is phenomenal and married to that the sub bass and fast bass makes for a unique and very good IEM
I loved the Tin Audio P1 planar IEMs but I found them to be technically very good - in a classic 'planar sound' type of way. The Tapes are similar but a lot more fun to listen to

 

[citral23]

All I was trying to say before is that our hearing is incredible

It's really not, unfortunately. My dog hears a lot better than me :/

Our imagination however, is incredible

 

[jon parker]

It's really not, unfortunately. My dog hears a lot better than me :/
Our imagination however, is incredible

As a sound engineer I speak from experience...not imagination
Everything ever created starts with imagination. The Eiffel Tower started in the imagination of the Architect
I had a cat once - her hearing improved remarkably when I got the cat food out of the cupboard

Whoops...sorry should have said 'I speak from [the] experience I have had - Didin't want to insinuate I was somehow better or more knowledgable than your good self!
How on earth did I enable 'strikethrough???

 

[praxis22]

I happen to be one who is a believer that a cable can make a small difference while others do not believe so.

Most of us do not really care what others think about the subject. That is why there is a sound science section....................

Perhaps best to let sleeping dogs lie...........

Yes, I have awoken that sleeping dragon on Reddit, you recommend a cable upgrade and people demand impedance measurements. What?

 

[PhonoPhi]

Yes, I have awoken that sleeping dragon on Reddit, you recommend a cable upgrade and people demand impedance measurements. What?

Were they supposed to ask for your ear measurements
By the same logic, do you entirely trust your senses and do not go to doctors? How would you feel if someone were constantly nagging about your doctor appointments: "if you do not feel it with your senses, I do not know what is wrong with you!"
Does it sound absurdous a bit?

 

[jon parker]

Were they supposed to ask for your ear measurements
By the same logic, do you entirely trust your senses and do not go to doctors? How would you feel if someone were constantly nagging about your doctor appointments: "if you do not feel it with your senses, I do not know what is wrong with you!"
Does it sound absurdous a bit?

What? When you 'feel' ill you go to the doctors - Sorry. Im not sure Ive understood your point

>>> For me the crux of this debate is like this. I have a bass heavy IEM - I try a different cable and the bass is reduced - I am happy. Someone asks 'can you recommend a cable'? I say yes..this one I tried improves the bass. At this point - people come in and say 'Prove it' or 'Show me a graph'
Im very sorry but why should or would I? Previously I was simply happy with the improved quality of the bass from that particular cable and as such am happy to hopefully help someone enjoy the same benefits.... Its as simple as that. NO graph/measurement in the world can then convince me that there is 'in fact' no reduction in the bass because I hear it and again Im really sorry if some people cannot accept that <<<

3. types of people of Head fi
1. Those who experience something and share that experience (happy)
2. Those who cannot accept anything that does not accord with their own experience (doubtful)
3. Those that need some fixed solid inherent proof of everything (angry)

Thats a bit tongue in cheek - but it does baffle me a bit that we cant just be happy and accept each others expereinces even IF Lord save us...it may be different to our own !
It seems really prevalent here and in society in general that someones actual experience is somehow invalid?
I get where people are coming from and the various points such as 'snake oil' 'expectations' et al are all important to bear in mind but I wish we could just be
a bit more open to learning about and maybe questioning other peoples experiences rather than just dismissing them because they are basically different to our own
There are a lot of people here with a vast knowledge and experience in this hobby

 

[PhonoPhi]

What? When you 'feel' ill you go to the doctors - Sorry. Im not sure Ive understood your point

>>> For me the crux of this debate is like this. I have a bass heavy IEM - I try a different cable and the bass is reduced - I am happy. Someone asks 'can you recommend a cable'? I say yes..this one I tried improves the bass. At this point - people come in and say 'Prove it' or 'Show me a graph'
Im very sorry but why should or would I? Previously I was simply happy with the improved quality of the bass from that particular cable and as such am happy to hopefully help someone enjoy the same benefits.... Its as simple as that. NO graph/measurement in the world can then convince me that there is 'in fact' no reduction in the bass because I hear it and again Im really sorry if some people cannot accept that <<<

3. types of people of Head fi
1. Those who experience something and share that experience (happy)
2. Those who cannot accept anything that does not accord with their own experience (doubtful)
3. Those that need some fixed solid inherent proof of everything (angry)

Thats a bit tongue in cheek - but it does baffle me a bit that we cant just be happy and accept each others expereinces even IF Lord save us...it may be different to our own !
It seems really prevalent here and in society in general that someones actual experience is somehow invalid?
I get where people are coming from and the various points such as 'snake oil' 'expectations' et al are all important to bear in mind but I wish we could just be
a bit more open to learning about and maybe questioning other peoples experiences rather than just dismissing them because they are basically different to our own
There are a lot of people here with a vast knowledge and experience in this hobby

To be brief - there are two primary emotions after all: greed of those who sell and promote those "proverbial cables" and fear of those who buying more gears that they are not yet reaching perfections of their trusted senses.
Whatever makes one happy

 

[jon parker]

To be brief - there are two primary emotions after all: greed of those who sell and promote those "proverbial cables" and fear of those who buying more gears that they are not yet reaching perfections of their trusted senses.
Whatever makes one happy

True dat !
Over the years Ive found my desire for a specific type of sound has changed - I started off being into super analytical bright, went though a period of loving deep fat bass
and now looking for balance.
Its a pretty cool hobby with all the choice there is, specially what's coming out of China right now