[silverfishla]

I'm not angry...just saddened and dissapointed. :/
There seems to be so much of this nonsense in the world right now - companies being super greedy and ruining products as a result.
Even Chinese Companies like Moondrop, who have shown what can be done without ripping people off...still - releases an amazing IEM for $20 and then next minute releases $1000 IEM's *sighs*
there was a time when companies released great well made products at a reasonable price with great service
But anyway, Sennheiser started going down the pan st the start of the 90's. [in some ways!]

@Otto Motor - whats weird though is that in your photo the shells look a lot more see-through so you can see there is nothing inside them! but on-line they are much more frosty so the insides are more hidden!

That’s why Head Fiers need to keep their mouths shut when something inexpensive is good. It just opens the door for companies to try to take advantage of us (and our own stupidity). We should really just PM each other with great recs and then post “it was just mehhhh” on the boards. Hahah.

 

[loomisjohnson]

lotsa (hopefully) interesting new music picks + a double review of the new seenheiser ie500 on the audioreviews.org blog

 

[castleofargh]

£500 for that $30 looking piece of plastic crap with A single wire and A single little driver inside ?!?
BAHAHAHAHA
You know what they say 'the bigger the con - the more likely people will fall for it'
I'm so done with Sennheiser
and as for 'Pro' - Tell you what Sennhesier maybe its time for you to to sit your selves down and had a 'bit of a chat' with yourselves because someone somewhere has long since lost the plot

I'm sorry, but if you're going to complain, do it for legitimate reasons. if your justification for high price on IEMs is the look and the number of little crap drivers forced inside, I'd suggest that you've been plenty conned already.

- Senn's engineers consider multidriver and crossovers to create way more trouble than they solve. we agree or we don't, but that's how they role. no 36 BA drivers in a 7 crossover config coming anytime soon from that brand.
- this IEM has apparently very low distortion(doesn't surprise me, Senn IEMs I've measured were pretty impressive in that department), high output potential, and good level isolation. those can be found elsewhere, but rarely together in one product. you and I may not care about that specifically(I really don't), but IMO it already justifies a higher than usual price.
- they sell this as a stage IEM. pro means that it's oriented toward a specific professional use that prioritizes specific needs. not that it's the bestest multipurpose stuff for audiophiles. I don't know how well the IE500 pro does in that respect, but maybe it would be worth asking the people it's actually aimed at(I'm guessing those who have been using the likes of Shure and Westone on stage so far). musicians are typically not rich and not too happy to spend more money than they need to on gears. I suspect Senn to know that and to have priced their product accordingly to what it does.

all to say that while I'm always eager to spit at ludicrous pricing and other dishonest marketing(tautology), I don't see anything here justifying to treat the IE500 pro as a scam.

 

[jon parker]

I'm sorry, but if you're going to complain, do it for legitimate reasons. if your justification for high price on IEMs is the look and the number of little crap drivers forced inside, I'd suggest that you've been plenty conned already.

- Senn's engineers consider multidriver and crossovers to create way more trouble than they solve. we agree or we don't, but that's how they role. no 36 BA drivers in a 7 crossover config coming anytime soon from that brand.
- this IEM has apparently very low distortion(doesn't surprise me, Senn IEMs I've measured were pretty impressive in that department), high output potential, and good level isolation. those can be found elsewhere, but rarely together in one product. you and I may not care about that specifically(I really don't), but IMO it already justifies a higher than usual price.
- they sell this as a stage IEM. pro means that it's oriented toward a specific professional use that prioritizes specific needs. not that it's the bestest multipurpose stuff for audiophiles. I don't know how well the IE500 pro does in that respect, but maybe it would be worth asking the people it's actually aimed at(I'm guessing those who have been using the likes of Shure and Westone on stage so far). musicians are typically not rich and not too happy to spend more money than they need to on gears. I suspect Senn to know that and to have priced their product accordingly to what it does.

all to say that while I'm always eager to spit at ludicrous pricing and other dishonest marketing(tautology), I don't see anything here justifying to treat the IE500 pro as a scam.

You missed my point (i was belittling their efforts - but for one thing
What do you think a driver is? and how different do you think the driver in the IE40 and this IE500 is. What do think the production costs are of a cheap plastic shell 2x wire and a driver - £500 ??
So then are they charging almost £400 MORE than its smaller brother because the driver is tuned different / better ? That is laughable at best

They are under the illusion that they have produced something that is - cost wise the sound quality of £500...let me make that clear £500
People have been fooled for a long time in thinking that more cost = better sound quality

As somebody who works in the industry let me make this point it often isnt the engineers who have the power to release the products but a driven sales team / producers - people who do NOT have the intimate relationship & hearing of sound engineers ):

If you look for recent interviews with Sean. execs you will hear them literaly saying that they are currently producing headphones for and I quote 'content providers' and for the 'mobile phone using generation' - In other words they are making poor quality sounding gear at inflated prices for people who do not know any better - = $$$
Ive listened to Sennheiser Headphones & IEM's since 1960s - After the Late 1980's it all started going down hill in terms of quality

Its not that they haven't made a handful of great headphones - they have - a handful - but some of the latest is just blatantly taking the piss out of unsuspecting people
The IE500 so called 'pro' is a headphone that actual 'pro' people like myself will not be touching with a barge pole
But if other people like it then great.
Also, they may try measure well...but they sound like **** (relatively speaking)

 

[kova4a]

I just don't understand that sudden negativity towards Sennheiser. They have been doing this thing for years, so why would the ie500 pro actually spark such a debate now. We still have single-driver ie800 for 800 bucks and ie800s for cool one thousand without actually detachable cables. If anything they are slowly going in the right direction with the pricing. Also Sennheiser have never been known for trying to be affordable and provide the best bang for your buck.

As far as single-driver iems go, people around here should finally let the number game go. Why the number of drivers is still important to so many people is beyond me. There are so many both cheap and expensive multi-driver iems that sound like crap. There are so many single driver iems that sound great and Sennheiser's prices are not even that atrocious in comparison to what has been happening in this hobby for the past few years. Hell, now even companies like Venture Electronics (yeah, the company famous for its $5 earbuds) are making single-driver universal iems for 1300 bucks. We also have Dita Audio selling $2000 single-driver iems.

So in the end Sennheiser's new "pro" series is hardly the biggest culprit in the ongoing trend for higher and higher prices. I still haven't tried the ie400 and ie500, but the ie40 pro was surprisingly competent for a $100 iem from Sennheiser. In fact it's better than most of the crappy chi-fi multi-driver iems I've heard.

 

[ScottPilgrim]

I . Hell, now even companies like Venture Electronics (yeah, the company famous for its $5 earbuds) are making single-driver universal iems for 1300 bucks. We also have Dita Audio selling $2000 single-driver iems.

Hey man please dont put VE and Dita or Sennheiser in the same paragraph. biggie and smalls made me scarred for life.

 

[jon parker]

I just don't understand that sudden negativity towards Sennheiser. They have been doing this thing for years, so why would the ie500 pro actually spark such a debate now. .

There is no debate, just a couple of comments about the £200 difference of an IEM
Not everyone here will fully appreciate how much price inflation goes on in the headphone world and may even think its normal

If we here on Head-fo don't call these companies out on their BS who will ??

 

[Ziggomatic]

If we here on Head-fo don't call these companies out on their BS who will ??

When a company puts a product out there in good faith, I think the only way you can call BS is by not buying.

 

[FlacFan]

Well said.

Cheers.

 

[jon parker]

Yes. lets not say anything. !? I mean, what good could possibly come from calling out things that are not right??
'When a company releases a product in ''good faith'' - If by 'good faith' you mean releasing a 'budget version' the ie40 and then slightly changing the tuning, renaming it as the ie400 and changing an extra £200 then ok.
Nothing personal to anyone here - Its just amazing how much we let stuff go by and say nothing. Its not the 1960's any more but c'mon - Trump & Boris ?? ***
Anyway moving on . . .
Any new well made, tuned affordable IEM's coming out China at the moment t?

 

[kova4a]

Yes. lets not say anything. !? I mean, what good could possibly come from calling out things that are not right??
'When a company releases a product in ''good faith'' - If by 'good faith' you mean releasing a 'budget version' the ie40 and then slightly changing the tuning, renaming it as the ie400 and changing an extra £200 then ok.
Nothing personal to anyone here - Its just amazing how much we let stuff go by and say nothing. Its not the 1960's any more but c'mon - Trump & Boris ?? ***
Anyway moving on . . .
Any new well made, tuned affordable IEM's coming out China at the moment t?

Well, I'm just surprised as the price difference between the new sennheiser models is nowhere as ridiculous as in the past and in comparison to other brands. Actually, just a few years ago they would have priced something like the ie40 pro at 200-250 and I bet then people wouldn't be as bothered as the price difference wouldn't be as great.

For example, Etymotic iems have been around for decades and people never complained that essentially you get a single BA in a similar housing with the cheapest mk5 and hf5 as with the er4s which costs 3-5 times more. Take expensive wine - it's made out of grape like all wine but it matters how it has been "fine-tuned" and that affects its price. Same goes for a lot of stuff.

One can't just judge something based on having the same looks and just one driver as you don't really know what has gone into the R&D and the actual production like driver matching and such. For instance, as far as I know the ie40 pro is made in China and the ie500 in Germany, so that's is one factor that affects the pricing a lot.

In the end whether a product is worth it boils down to personal preferences and what someone is ready to pay, but in my experience when one doesn't want to spend a lot of money on something one starts to have issues with it and that's how so many people turned against Apple for example. Not that I support the recent price hikes in most industries but no one is forcing anyone to buy anything.

 

[jon parker]

Good points - basically, it just annoys me that companies take the piss
My main problem with Senn in recent times with is twofold 1. the quality is awful [relatively speaking] , especially in what they called 'Pro' items and the price you pay is way more that they should be for what they are giving you - Im saying in relation to hearing their flagships both modern and vintage +various IEM's
ive bought a number of so called 'pro' headphones / IEM's in recent years and have been profoundly dissapointed & shocked at the quality & price
A while ago they claimed they had matched the tuning of the Legendary HD 250 closed back. This was one of the most exciting developments in the headphone world for a while but when I got them (and as a few others also found) they were NO WHERE NEAR the tuning or sound of the HD 250 to the point where is just a bare faced lie - The low end, which according to their claims, SHOULD have been one of the best in a closed back headphone for years was like most of there 'content provider tuned' headphones - a mushy bloated mess.

As for the point about what one is willing to pay - This is kind of my other point. So many headphone companies inflate prices to crazy prices. Its only after a few years of hearing many different quality headphones that you even begin to appreciate what quality actually is and what that is worth. There are some companies that make headphones out of pure love and a wish to share that and as such charge reasonable prices & give great customer care.

The point of vintage wine i think is a little different in that its prices are high due to the ageing process giving layers and a complexity that can only come in time and arises from correct preparation (I used to be in the trade!)
personally, I don't mind spending money that is reasonable. I have to use headphones for my job so on occasion I have to make an investment but then its because I know exactly what they do and what their specific qualities are

But yup, all good points. it is what it is
Apologies, thanks for your forbearance - no biggy - I just wish we lived in a world that wasn't dominated by greed and making a profit above all else :/ Music is such a rare and precious commodity

 

[jant71]

Good points - basically, it just annoys me that companies take the piss
My main problem with Senn in recent times with is twofold 1. the quality is awful [relatively speaking] , especially in what they called 'Pro' items and the price you pay is way more that they should be for what they are giving you - Im saying in relation to hearing their flagships both modern and vintage +various IEM's
ive bought a number of so called 'pro' headphones / IEM's in recent years and have been profoundly dissapointed & shocked at the quality & price
A while ago they claimed they had matched the tuning of the Legendary HD 250 closed back. This was one of the most exciting developments in the headphone world for a while but when I got them (and as a few others also found) they were NO WHERE NEAR the tuning or sound of the HD 250 to the point where is just a bare faced lie - The low end, which according to their claims, SHOULD have been one of the best in a closed back headphone for years was like most of there 'content provider tuned' headphones - a mushy bloated mess.

As for the point about what one is willing to pay - This is kind of my other point. So many headphone companies inflate prices to crazy prices. Its only after a few years of hearing many different quality headphones that you even begin to appreciate what quality actually is and what that is worth. There are some companies that make headphones out of pure love and a wish to share that and as such charge reasonable prices & give great customer care.

The point of vintage wine i think is a little different in that its prices are high due to the ageing process giving layers and a complexity that can only come in time and arises from correct preparation (I used to be in the trade!)
personally, I don't mind spending money that is reasonable. I have to use headphones for my job so on occasion I have to make an investment but then its because I know exactly what they do and what their specific qualities are

But yup, all good points. it is what it is
Apologies, thanks for your forbearance - no biggy - I just wish we lived in a world that wasn't dominated by greed and making a profit above all else :/ Music is such a rare and precious commodity

So, wonder what you think about a $1,700 JVC earphone with a small amount of wood, exotic I guess but still not much of it, and a small amount of lacquer((with magical powers I think), and one dynamic driver?

 

[jon parker]

So, wonder what you think about a $1,700 JVC earphone with a small amount of wood, exotic I guess but still not much of it, and a small amount of lacquer((with magical powers I think), and one dynamic driver?

Well, if I was a millionaire I would buy it and not give a crap about anyone else

 

[slowpickr]

So, wonder what you think about a $1,700 JVC earphone with a small amount of wood, exotic I guess but still not much of it, and a small amount of lacquer((with magical powers I think), and one dynamic driver?

I'm getting it when I win the lottery