The discovery thread!
Nov 5, 2015 at 10:15 AM Post #31,036 of 103,118
Oh no, I hope that doesn't mean I won't like it.  My problem with KEF M200 is that the bass was too strong.  When I turn up the volume to get the vocals where I like them, the bass is overwhelming.  To me, the M200 wasn't balanced quite right.

As I said before, the balance for Tenore, S2, and KC06 are right to me.  RE400 and Singolo too little bass, M200, Piston, Basso too much bass.  I guess we'll see!


Fwiw I to like the bass on the Tenores and S2's and although the A2's got more I still enjoy them a lot:)
 
Nov 5, 2015 at 5:53 PM Post #31,037 of 103,118
Not quite ready for my actual review but time to spill the scoop on the CKS1100...
 
I like the packaging. It is still about the same as the CKR's, the CKS1000's, etc. that many of us are familiar with. The accessories are quality but there are not quite enough of them. The newer CK51 tips are like a hybrid 3580 tips. Shape and softness of the 3580 and also the bore width but a much stiffer black core to them. An upgrade over the CK55 that come with the CKR's but you can still get a bigger stage presentation from wider bore tips. They are a good addition to the collection. The case is new and large with two sections and two snaps. A nice leather look with a rougher grain than the previous smoother case. I also like that the flap/lid overlap is shorter which makes it a bit more ergonomic for everyday use. After the nice tips and case that is it though and AT could give us more including a clip. A large, weighty earphone can certainly use a clip to take weight over the earphones since they may(are for me) be more prone to getting pulled out easier. If any earphone should come with a decent clip count the 1100 among them. A nice clip and more than 4 pair of tips should be included with a flagship phone.
 
Build quality is to quote the box, "solid" and I have no real issues. The cable after the Y is fairly thin but same as the CKR phones. This time we have the AT version of MMCX which is longer and very sturdy/stable feeling. The connectors fit tight and won't spin without some force and the insertion and removal is done with a sturdy click locking them in. No issues at all with these connectors so far. The relief to the plug is a bit longer this time and the plug is metal. The same barely there size y joint is there again from AT and I like that it is small and that it prevents snagging on things like zippers. On to the housings that are mostly plastic(looks like ABS in the rear and polycarb. up front for the tube cap) but the large cylinder inside is a solid aluminum enclosure. Along the same line as the CKR these are based off of, plastic wrapping around an metal cylinder with some venting in the back. So, again, those familiar with the CKR series will have a good idea of how these are constructed.
 
Fit is always somewhat subjective. The CKS1100 is very much an angled tube, off center, half in-ear style. It has dual post positions like Radius phones and some others. The tips can be further out or a little closer in on the tube. As you guessed, further out gets more seal and more bass while the inside post eases off the bass some. the inside post position gives a more balanced sound but may make the 1100 not stay in the ears very well depending on tip choice. The CKS1100 really just fit with the ear tips and front most cylinder section that the tube branches off from. The rest will hang in the air unless one's ear are big enough to insert them far enough to have the strains touch the ear. Depends on ear anatomy and size. fit may take a bit of practice esp. on the inner post but most people should find them easy to fit after that period and quite comfy.
 
About burn in...I found the CKS not as detailed or textured right out of the box. The promised depth from the dual venting was not really impressive and they were very forward, almost too much. After a while the CKS1100 separated out, needed a notch or two less volume and not every single sound was up front in your face anymore. A front to back three dimensional sound developed and the promised depth and large stage came through more. Detail and texture revealed themselves as sounds overlapped less than before.
 
On to the sound: A bit of a dichotomy here due to the two post positions. A strong bass phone which is bassy but not quite hardcore basshead. Also a full and solid bass earphone with good balance. Either way the CKS1100 has fullness and weight that is very satisfying even unamped and at low listening levels. The Diamond Like Carbon coating seems to give good detail, tight notes, and high treble clarity with some sparkle that stays polite enough/peak minimized. In balance mode they may have more treble than the CKR's by a slight bit. On the outer post the bass starts to dominate the treble a bit but being more apparent to begin with, both the mids and treble don't get buried but just aren't the main focus. I tend to use the inner post position for better balance and also like the push neutral sources give then really make them ideally balanced to me. Warmer sources like my Sony's push them towards a bassier sound.
 
The presentation is headphone-like and 3D. One of those earphones that fool you into hearing thing you think is outside noise but is not. Dual phase drivers plus a second chamber with semi-open dual vents will do that but at the cost of leakage and less isolation. The stage is very well done to my ears. Even width and height and depth is also quite good. Combine it with the 1100 being an up front phone, the depth may take the crown of the three. The distance between the most forward they can tickle your ears to the furthest they can throw sounds is greater than the height or width can do. The best circular and 3-D stage I've heard in a while. Round and not flat with impressive layering from an up front earphone. Being up front doesn't allow spacing as easy as a farther back presentation. Here we have more close in and not as spaced out but still higher end separation  Again they are a more up front and in your face which throws it's detail and texture at you. Guitars are very detailed, piano is great with the DLC clarity. 
 
Two things are at work here are the DLC which seemed to have tight notes and very good clarity right out of the box. Also, while the dual phase drivers have good size magnets, the CKS1100 doubles the bass driver's magnet size which makes these noticeably more sensitive than the CKR models. These reveal hiss more readily, need less volume, and have a more controlled bass though the venting works to help increase it. Great bass detail and texture here. No wonder the bass here is compared to near $1000 earphones in a couple of reviews. The large magnet makes the bass more sensitive so it follows the source power well. If a source is tight and neutral the bass will follow well and be more audiophile then you might think and if a source is more consumer it will bloom more. If a source livens up and gets brighter at higher volumes the CKS adds bass more readily with higher volumes. It also keeps a more full sound at lower volumes. With my previous LTD, the sound would liven up and adds more treble sparkle while the CKS1100 adds more bass than treble with the same source but it has more treble presence to begin with(certainly reinforced by the up front nature). Not many phones have such a steady, gradual bass increase along the volume curve as most seem to plateau or even drop off some. If you go balanced there is super high end bass detail, texture, and imaging here. Pushing them basshead starts to cover up finer nuances with some thump as one might expect. Bass reach is wonderful and well done as the sub, low, and mid bass are presented in nearly equal amounts in either position. A few decibels up for the outer post. Sub-bass is nearly always the focus unless some bass guitar steals it a bit higher up. Guitar plucks like to take the stage up along with kick drum if not all to themselves:)
 
The mids are pretty much the equivalent of the CKR9LTD but balanced with more bass and treble presence the mids fit in well and don't stand out. Good clarity and sweetness here and that great depth allows vocal positioning/tracking above what the Sound Reality phones could do with the great front to back range. Seal and post position will change male vocal thickness and warmth with some more warmth. Good weight, emotion, and texture in the midrange. On the more balanced setting and with thier forwardness you will hear just about everything the midrange and vocals have to present.
 
Treble has always surprised/satisfied me. I never bought a CKS1000 for fear of not enough sparkle, crispness, and the accompanying detail to match a rich low end. Seems AT went on a mission to makes sure the CKS1100 has this including in their own description..."next generation equipped profound low and high resolution sound to the symbiosis "DUAL PHASE PUSH-PULL DRIVERS" specially designed" and "In front of the diaphragm, it adopted a DLC (diamond-like carbon) coating to improve the high-frequency characteristics have a high hardness close to diamond. It has achieved a high-resolution reproduction of a wide range of bandwidth". The CKS1000 reviews seemed to point this out and the new description helped me in making my purchase decision pretty easy or more safe in my mind. Pretty sparkly out of the box and nicely refined. Not that smooth or polite like the CKR9LTD. More like the CKR9 in making itself more known but quite a bit more refined than the CKR. Tight and crisp and energetic on the more balanced post with detail and sharp note with an accurate decay. Nothing odd as in metallic or grain of any kind. Just clean and clear and just enough. Take the Titan 1 treble and reign it in a bit as far as peaks and brightness(and a bit of extension) and remove the titanium tinge and you have it, lol! Well more forward as well should we not forget how forward the 1100 is. Treble is not quite up to the performance of the bass but it is quite pure for an AT and a favorite over the CKR I have heard, the Rockets, the Titans, and as good as my modded FXT200 which has great treble. When you move over to the outer post and more bass abounds the treble does get more polite and less there maybe a bit more Rocket-like though the Rocket's has less to do with big bass on the other end being the reason for taking presence away. Still makes it self known even if less of the focus there. The CKS1100 should not scare anyone away for fear of lacking treble(quantity or quality) like the CKS1000 did to me and possibly others.
 
In short, the CKS1100 are a sweet phone with some of the best bass out there esp. for $200 and soon to be less. Throw in excellent mids and treble and a truly convincing headphone-like presentation make it a special phone. Certainly a best buy for me and worked out even a bit better than I hoped. Also already landed my CKR9LTD with a new owner :)

 
Nov 5, 2015 at 6:06 PM Post #31,038 of 103,118
  Not quite ready for my actual review but time to spill the scoop on the CKS1100...
I like the packaging. It is still the same as the CKR's, the CKS110's, etc. that many of us are familiar with. The accessories are quality but there are not quite enough of them. The newer CK51 tips are like a hybrid 3580 tips. Shape and softness of the 3580 and also the bore width but a much stiffer black core to them. An upgrade over the CK55 that come with the CKR's but you can still get a bigger stage presentation from wider bore tips. They are a good addition to the collection. The case is new and large with two sections and two snaps. A nice leather look with a rougher grain than the previous smoother case. I also like that the flap/lid overlap is shorter which makes it a bit more ergonomic for everyday use. After the nice tips and case that is it though and AT could give us more including a clip. A large, weighty earphone can certainly use a clip to take weight over the earphones since they may(are for me) be more prone to getting pulled out easier. If any earphone should come with a decent clip count the 1100 among them. A nice clip and more than 4 pair of tips should be included with a flagship phone.
 
Build quality is to quote the box, "solid" and I have no real issues. The cable after the Y is fairly thin but same as the CKR phones. This time we have the AT version of MMCX which is longer and very sturdy/stable feeling. The connectors fit tight and won't spin without some force and the insertion and removal is done with a sturdy click locking them in. No issues at all with these connectors so far. The relief to the plug is a bit longer this time and the plug is metal. The same barely there size y joint is there again from AT and I like that it is small and that it prevents snagging on things like zippers. On to the housings that are mostly plastic(looks like ABS in the rear and polycarb. up front for the tube cap) but the large cylinder inside is a solid aluminum enclosure. Along the same line as the CKR these are based off of, plastic wrapping around an metal cylinder with some venting in the back. So, again, those familiar with the CKR series will have a good idea of how these are constructed.
 
Fit is always somewhat subjective. The CKS1100 is very much an angled tube, off center, half in-ear style. It has dual post positions like Radius phones and some others. The tips can be further out or a little closer in on the tube. As you guessed, further out gets more seal and more bass while the inside post eases off the bass some. the inside post position gives a more balanced sound but may make the 1100 not stay in the ears very well depending on tip choice. The CKS1100 really just fit with the ear tips and front most cylinder section that the tube branches off from. The rest will hang in the air unless one's ear are big enough to insert them far enough to have the strains touch the ear. Depends on ear anatomy and size. fit may take a bit of practice esp. on the inner post but most people should find them easy to fit after that period and quite comfy.
 
About burn in...I found the CKS not as detailed or textured right out of the box. The promised depth from the dual venting was not really impressive and they were very forward, almost too much. After a while the CKS1100 separated out, needed a notch or two less volume and not every single sound was up front in your face anymore. A front to back three dimensional sound developed and the promised depth and large stage came through more. Detail and textured revealed themselves as sounds overlapped less than before.
 
On to the sound: A bit of a dichotomy here due to the two post positions. A strong bass phone which is bassy but not quite hardcore basshead. Also a full and solid bass earphone with good balance. Either way the CKS1100 has fullness and weight that is very satisfying even unamped and at low listening levels. The Diamond Like Carbon coating seems to give good detail, tight notes, and high treble clarity with some sparkle that stays polite enough/peak minimized. In balance mode they may have more treble than the CKR's by a slight bit. On the outer post the bass starts to dominate the treble a bit but being more apparent to begin with, both the mids and treble don't get buried but just aren't the main focus. I tend to use the inner post position for better balance and also like the push neutral sources give then really make them ideally balanced to me. Warmer sources like my Sony's push them towards a bassier sound.
 
The presentation is headphone-like and 3D. One of those earphones that fool you into hearing thing you think is outside noise but is not. Dual phase drivers plus a second chamber with semi-open dual vents will do that but at the cost of leakage and less isolation. The stage is very well done to my ears. Even width and height and depth is also quite good. Combine it with the 1100 being an up front phone, the depth may take the crown of the three. The distance between the most forward they can tickle your ears to the furthest they can throw sounds is greater than the height or width can do. The best circular and 3-D stage I've heard in a while. Round and not flat with impressive layering from an up front earphone. Being up front doesn't allow spacing as easy as a farther back presentation. Here we have more close in and not as spaced out but still higher end separation  Again they are a more up front and in your face which throws it's detail and texture at you. Guitars are very detailed, piano is great with the DLC clarity. 
 
Two things are at work here are the DLC which seemed to have tight notes and very good clarity right out of the box. Also, while the dual phase drivers have good size magnets, the CKS1100 doubles the bass driver's magnet size which makes these noticeably more sensitive than the CKR models. These reveal hiss more readily, need less volume, and have a more controlled bass though the venting works to help increase it. Great bass detail and texture here. No wonder the bass here is compared to $1000 earphones in a couple of reviews. The large magnet makes the bass more sensitive so it follows the source power well. If a source is tight and neutral the bass will follow well and be more audiophile then you might think and if a source is more consumer it will bloom more. If a source livens up and gets brighter at higher volumes the CKS adds bass more readily with higher volumes. It also keeps a more full sound at lower volumes. With my previous LTD, the sound would liven up and adds more treble sparkle while the CKS1100 adds more bass than treble with the same source but it has more treble presence to begin with(certainly reinforced by the up front nature). Not many phones have such a steady, gradual bass increase along the volume curve as most seem to plateau or even drop off some. If you go balanced there is super high end bass detail, texture, and imaging here. Pushing them basshead starts to cover up finer nuances with some thump as one might expect. Bass reach is wonderful and well done as the sub, low, and mid bass are presented in nearly equal amounts in either position. A few decibels up for the outer post. Sub-bass is nearly always the focus unless some bass guitar steals it a bit higher up. Guitar plucks like to take the stage up along with kick drum if not all to themselves:)
 
The mids are pretty much the equivalent of the CKR9LTD but balanced with more bass and treble presence the mids fit in well and don't stand out. Good clarity and sweetness here and that great depth allows vocal positioning/tracking above what the Sound Reality phones could do with the great front to back range. Seal and post position will change male vocal thickness and warmth with some more warmth. Good weight, emotion, and texture in the midrange. On the more balanced setting and with thier forwardness you will hear just about everything the midrange and vocals have to present.
 
Treble has always surprised/satisfied me. I never bought a CKS1000 for fear of not enough sparkle, crispness, and the accompanying detail to match a rich low end. Seems AT went on a mission to makes sure the CKS1100 has this including in their own description..."next generation equipped profound low and high resolution sound to the symbiosis "DUAL PHASE PUSH-PULL DRIVERS" specially designed" and "In front of the diaphragm, it adopted a DLC (diamond-like carbon) coating to improve the high-frequency characteristics have a high hardness close to diamond. It has achieved a high-resolution reproduction of a wide range of bandwidth". The CKS1000 reviews seemed to point this out and the new description helped me in making my purchase decision pretty easy or more safe in my mind. Pretty sparkly out of the box and nicely refined. Not that smooth or polite like the CKR9LTD. More like the CKR9 in making itself more known but quite a bit more refined than the CKR. Tight and crisp and energetic on the more balanced post with detail and sharp note with an accurate decay. Nothing odd as in metallic or grain of any kind. Just clean and clear and just enough. Take the Titan 1 treble and reign it in a bit as far as peaks and brightness(and a bit of extension) and remove the titanium tinge and you have it, lol! Well more forward as well should we not forget how forward the 1100 is. Treble is not quite up to the performance of the bass but it is quite pure for an AT and a favorite over the CKR I have heard, the Rockets, the Titans, and as good as my modded FXT200 which has great treble. When you move over to the outer post and more bass abounds the treble does get more polite and less there maybe a bit more Rocket-like though the Rocket's has less to do with big bass on the other end being the reason for taking presence away. Still makes it self known even if less of the focus there. The CKS1100 should not scare anyone away for fear of lacking treble(quantity or quality) like the CKS1000 did to me and possibly others.
 
In short, the CKS1100 are a sweet phone with some of the best bass out there esp. for $200 and soon to be less. Throw in excellent mids and treble and a truly convincing headphone-like presentation make it a special phone. Certainly a best buy for me and worked out even a bit better than I hoped. Also already landed my CKR9LTD with a new owner :)
 

 
Great stuff! I didn't want to want them, but thanks to your impressions.... 
rolleyes.gif

 
Nov 5, 2015 at 6:25 PM Post #31,039 of 103,118
   
Great stuff! I didn't want to want them, but thanks to your impressions.... 
rolleyes.gif

 
Well, good size drivers, big magnets and semi-open/large housing are a solid recipe that should come out well. Based off hearing two of the CKR is was very likely it was gonna be done well. The best part is how they can be pushed one way or the other. With the right tips and certain sources more audiophile in voicing they give me a surprisingly well balanced and audiophile sound with more than a bit of texture, richness, fullness that satisfies but doesn't overwhelm or detract from the sound but kinda completes it. They do appreciate the right push as far as good clean power and files to do their best work. A bit too sensitive and not the best match with my Sony S639 as they get a bit more consumer sounding. Still, the CKS1100 takes EQ nicely. Feed them right and you will be rewarded. Really something with the 770C or my Lanhui E109 esp. on the JAZZ setting.
 
Nov 5, 2015 at 7:55 PM Post #31,041 of 103,118
  Oh no, I hope that doesn't mean I won't like it.  My problem with KEF M200 is that the bass was too strong.  When I turn up the volume to get the vocals where I like them, the bass is overwhelming.  To me, the M200 wasn't balanced quite right.
 
As I said before, the balance for Tenore, S2, and KC06 are right to me.  RE400 and Singolo too little bass, M200, Piston, Basso too much bass.  I guess we'll see!


Seems either yours or mine is a defective one. Mine is very neutral, very balanced. Did you see from M200/M500 thread others has such problem? Did you try different tips?
 
Nov 5, 2015 at 8:45 PM Post #31,042 of 103,118
 
Seems either yours or mine is a defective one. Mine is very neutral, very balanced. Did you see from M200/M500 thread others has such problem? Did you try different tips?

 
I find the M200's to be very tip and fit dependent. With certain tips I also felt that the bass was too much. I finally settled on the spiral dots and they do indeed sound quite neutral and balanced with them.
 
Nov 5, 2015 at 9:56 PM Post #31,043 of 103,118
Quote:
  Oh no, I hope that doesn't mean I won't like it.  My problem with KEF M200 is that the bass was too strong.  When I turn up the volume to get the vocals where I like them, the bass is overwhelming.  To me, the M200 wasn't balanced quite right.
 
As I said before, the balance for Tenore, S2, and KC06 are right to me.  RE400 and Singolo too little bass, M200, Piston, Basso too much bass.  I guess we'll see!
 
Quote:
   
I find the M200's to be very tip and fit dependent. With certain tips I also felt that the bass was too much. I finally settled on the spiral dots and they do indeed sound quite neutral and balanced with them.

 
Yeah, I use the black tips from those KZ's phones. It works very well. Very balanced, very neutral, extremely detailed.
 
Nov 6, 2015 at 1:27 AM Post #31,044 of 103,118
I don't see how the AT super fan will resist this.

 
Oh yes. Thanks to Jant for the very nice impressions of these. Ordered. 
 
I am expecting mines next week. Japan Speed post. Will share my thoughts on them. 
 
excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just a little. 
 
Nov 6, 2015 at 3:51 AM Post #31,045 of 103,118
Oh yes. Thanks to Jant for the very nice impressions of these. Ordered. 

I am expecting mines next week. Japan Speed post. Will share my thoughts on them. 

excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just a little. 


Now that's what I call "resistance is non-existant" lol. Congrats Ds!
 
Nov 6, 2015 at 3:58 AM Post #31,046 of 103,118
Really something with the 770C


You have my number pegged, don't you lol! If I didn't just kinda sorta accidentally pull the trigger on some sony mdr-100aap's, I'd prolly be kinda sorta accidentally pulling the trigger on these 1100 beasts. Oh well, in time!
 
Nov 6, 2015 at 8:39 AM Post #31,047 of 103,118
 
Seems either yours or mine is a defective one. Mine is very neutral, very balanced. Did you see from M200/M500 thread others has such problem? Did you try different tips?

I found the bass definitely north of neutral on the M200, and others on the M200 said the same thing.  People on the thread suggested using tips that don't completely seal to lessen the bass.
 
They definitely have more bass than most of the IEMs in my sig, except for Piston and Basso.
 
Nov 6, 2015 at 11:45 AM Post #31,049 of 103,118
   
Oh yes. Thanks to Jant for the very nice impressions of these. Ordered. 
 
I am expecting mines next week. Japan Speed post. Will share my thoughts on them. 
 
excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just a little. 


Donuts--glad to see you are sonically LIVING LARGE!  can't wait to hear your
thoughts on this new ATH monster phone!!! cheers!!!
 
Nov 6, 2015 at 12:00 PM Post #31,050 of 103,118
  I found the bass definitely north of neutral on the M200, and others on the M200 said the same thing.  People on the thread suggested using tips that don't completely seal to lessen the bass.
 
They definitely have more bass than most of the IEMs in my sig, except for Piston and Basso.

cool.gif
Grayson Let me suggest the Puro IEM500. It is about the most Balanced, Natural sounding earphone I have heard. Be forewarned it has a Flat Audiophile type EQ and at around 34 Ohm it is quite hard to drive, (think Havi B3). It lists for around $200 USD but is available for $50 at some sites.
 
No Brainer @ $50, and still worth every Penny of List price.
 
JMHO
 
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beerchug.gif
TWIN
 

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