[Damz87]

I probably should’ve read the previous posts before jumping in sorry to slightly derail the conversation.

The Dusk2 is an auto-recommendation to audition for me around that price-point. I haven't heard tons and tons around there to be fair, but of the stuff I have heard, if you want a reference, (slightly) warm-neutral IEM then I can't think of a better one in the price range. (Reminds me a little of the Erlkonig on setting 2 - obviously a different league entirely but the tone isn't too dissimilar across the two IEMs on that setting).

Agree based on my very early impressions. It’s got a pretty safe tuning, with a somewhat dry sounding midrange, but overall it’s an enjoyable tonality with decent technicalities. The soundstage is particularly impressive.

 

[Deezel177]

Here's hoping the rumoured 64 Audio flagship hits Bird-level quality at 30% - 40% of the price to take some of the heat off ultra high-end pricing. Having said that, if we're looking to $3K - $4K IEMs to 'take the heat off' then prices are clearly too high already, and since we're talking 64 Audio, automatically add $1000 to the price for better cable quality.

I think $1000 is a bit of a hyperbole, but I see your point. As long as they sell it separately.

Tbh 64 audio aren’t exactly innocent either. The Fourte is 5 years old now and had its (at the time) eye watering MSRP of $3,599.

Time will tell.

It’s funny you mention the Fourte, because the story behind its announcement actually feeds into the points I was trying to make. When the prices of both the Fourte and the U18t were first announced, they were met with complete and utter skepticism; outrage at times, even. The backlash was so big, that 64 actually dropped their MSRPs somewhere between $500-$1000. I can’t remember. I think it was US$500, which translated to around SG$700-900. So, the $3599 price tag is actually its cut price.

The same happened again with the Spiral Ear SE6. They tried to price it based on, in Spiral Ears’ own words, “how well it performed relative to the competition,” and it backfired immediately and completely. They proceeded to slash its price by around half after the backlash.

My point is that we barely get those reactions anymore nowadays. Like I said, when the FS was announced at a much higher price point than the Fourte originally was, it was instead met with excitement and intrigue, followed by requests for a pre-order. Again, whether or not those products are worth their prices is another debate entirely. For me, the overarching concern is the precedents they’ve set for the market and the desensitization to these high prices that more and more consumers are beginning to show.

 

[hshock76]

Ehh, I’m definitely an anomaly… I still enjoy the Toyota’s of the IEM world

Currently rocking the Moondrop Blessing 2: Dusk with @doctorjuggles copper cable and it sounds great. There’s some quality IEM’s in the lower price brackets that are worth exploring in my humble opinion

Hey I’m doing the Honda’s too:

 

[doctorjuggles]

My point is that we barely get those reactions anymore nowadays.

I think to a certain degree it's because those reactions are very much one-dimensional, so those who make that argument are a little tired of it. There are only so many times one can say "that's far too expensive" before we get bored of our own opinion, let alone anyone else taking it into account.
On top of this, the replies are also predictable. "Oh but if you sold your three most expensive IEMs you'd easily be able to afford this latest and greatest IEM!!!" Well yes, and if I didn't eat breakfast and lunch, I could afford a very fancy dinner, but that wouldn't stop the dinner being overpriced.
The discussion becomes terribly circular.

The underlying "zinger" always seems to be "well I want the best sound, so I'm happy with this TOTL IEM at $6k." Well great, that's nice. But almost everyone in here wants the best sound they can get - that's why we aren't happy just listening to bundled transducers and mass-market "boom-tish" ones (some mass market ones are excellent, this isn't a swipe at the whole mass-market). Everyone's here for the same reason, but not everyone can afford the best (indeed there are probably many who can afford it, but the price has gone past what they might consider their own point of principle maximum.)

So while I totally get what you mean, I don't think everyone has just accepted this new normal. I can only speak for myself here, but I haven't accepted it, what I've accepted is that I operate at a level below this elite tier.

Some may consider that ridiculous considering some of the IEMs I own - I'm very grateful to have my collection (which in itself is ridiculous and totally unnecessary)
But the alternative is to sell them and buy into a price range I'm simply not comfortable with. That's my own choice though. For me, the pleasure of hearing the same album on the LX one day and the Sultan the next is an alluring call, and one I value over the (equally valid) "one to rule them all" that many also prefer.

Arguing over the price of it, though, has become a thankless and soul-destroying task

 

[mashuto]

I think $1000 is a bit of a hyperbole, but I see your point. As long as they sell it separately.


It’s funny you mention the Fourte, because the story behind its announcement actually feeds into the points I was trying to make. When the prices of both the Fourte and the U18t were first announced, they were met with complete and utter skepticism; outrage at times, even. The backlash was so big, that 64 actually dropped their MSRPs somewhere between $500-$1000. I can’t remember. I think it was US$500, which translated to around SG$700-900. So, the $3599 price tag is actually its cut price.

The same happened again with the Spiral Ear SE6. They tried to price it based on, in Spiral Ears’ own words, “how well it performed relative to the competition,” and it backfired immediately and completely. They proceeded to slash its price by around half after the backlash.

My point is that we barely get those reactions anymore nowadays. Like I said, when the FS was announced at a much higher price point than the Fourte originally was, it was instead met with excitement and intrigue, followed by requests for a pre-order. Again, whether or not those products are worth their prices is another debate entirely. For me, the overarching concern is the precedents they’ve set for the market and the desensitization to these high prices that more and more consumers are beginning to show.

I've been reading this discussion and this is especially interesting to me and definitely confirms (at least in this one case) something I have been wondering about.

The prices of these products seem like they are much much more about their perceived space in the market rather than necessarily just about the technology or the r&d that went into creating it.

The general sentiment on the forums too is almost always that the more expensive iems are just better (not actually always of course). There's obviously an expectation that if you are spending big bucks, you expect the best. And nobody ever wants to believe or admit that an expensive purchase may be anything less than perfect.

And it brings me back to the trailli that I find myself extremely skeptical of the claims that it's somehow noticeably "better" than anything else out there on the market. I haven't heard it so I obviously can't actually say. But I find myself thinking that while it may be an excellent iem, the hype almost certainly has to be in part due to the price.

Based on the driver count and tech, and shell material/construction/design, there's nothing in there that even remotely seems to command that $6k price compared to many other things in the market. So does the rest of the price come from tuning or intangibles or is a good chunk of it just to set it's place in the market and create the perception that it's somehow ultra high end and immediately better than things priced less.

Obviously not a statement on the actual quality or sound since I haven't heard them. And I know the trailli owners would all tell me I'm wrong and that I need to hear them to understand. And while I personally can't possibly imagine them being worth the asking price, obviously there are plenty out there who do think they are worth it. And that will drive the trend forward. And like you, it's a bit worrying that I think we are going to see more and more ultra high priced iems that at least on the surface don't actually push the envelope in terms of what they are offering other than that perceived place in the market. But I should also say that my experience in this hobby and market is also limited mostly to just what I see here on the forums, which is admittedly a limited viewpoint.

Of course, if people find value in them then it's only smart for the companies to price their products at what the market will accept.

 

[mvvRAZ]

I think to a certain degree it's because those reactions are very much one-dimensional, so those who make that argument are a little tired of it. There are only so many times one can say "that's far too expensive" before we get bored of our own opinion, let alone anyone else taking it into account.
On top of this, the replies are also predictable. "Oh but if you sold your three most expensive IEMs you'd easily be able to afford this latest and greatest IEM!!!" Well yes, and if I didn't eat breakfast and lunch, I could afford a very fancy dinner, but that wouldn't stop the dinner being overpriced.
The discussion becomes terribly circular.

The underlying "zinger" always seems to be "well I want the best sound, so I'm happy with this TOTL IEM at $6k." Well great, that's nice. But almost everyone in here wants the best sound they can get - that's why we aren't happy just listening to bundled transducers and mass-market "boom-tish" ones (some mass market ones are excellent, this isn't a swipe at the whole mass-market). Everyone's here for the same reason, but not everyone can afford the best (indeed there are probably many who can afford it, but the price has gone past what they might consider their own point of principle maximum.)

So while I totally get what you mean, I don't think everyone has just accepted this new normal. I can only speak for myself here, but I haven't accepted it, what I've accepted is that I operate at a level below this elite tier.

Some may consider that ridiculous considering some of the IEMs I own - I'm very grateful to have my collection (which in itself is ridiculous and totally unnecessary)
But the alternative is to sell them and buy into a price range I'm simply not comfortable with. That's my own choice though. For me, the pleasure of hearing the same album on the LX one day and the Sultan the next is an alluring call, and one I value over the (equally valid) "one to rule them all" that many also prefer.

Arguing over the price of it, though, has become a thankless and soul-destroying task

Badum tsssssssss

 

[ranfan]

I think Fourte was priced at around $4000 initially, I remember this because I was impressed with it back when it was first introduced during CanJam, and because it has four drivers and called Four-te (used to joke it's pronounced '4k')

Man, I miss CanJam..

 

[aaf evo]

If people let a price tag dictate what they perceive to be “good” then that’s their own problem/fault.

Just about everything in life trends upwards in cost and the good thing about this hobby is that there’s options at all prices.

 

[gLer]

I think to a certain degree it's because those reactions are very much one-dimensional, so those who make that argument are a little tired of it. There are only so many times one can say "that's far too expensive" before we get bored of our own opinion, let alone anyone else taking it into account.
On top of this, the replies are also predictable. "Oh but if you sold your three most expensive IEMs you'd easily be able to afford this latest and greatest IEM!!!" Well yes, and if I didn't eat breakfast and lunch, I could afford a very fancy dinner, but that wouldn't stop the dinner being overpriced.
The discussion becomes terribly circular.

The underlying "zinger" always seems to be "well I want the best sound, so I'm happy with this TOTL IEM at $6k." Well great, that's nice. But almost everyone in here wants the best sound they can get - that's why we aren't happy just listening to bundled transducers and mass-market "boom-tish" ones (some mass market ones are excellent, this isn't a swipe at the whole mass-market). Everyone's here for the same reason, but not everyone can afford the best (indeed there are probably many who can afford it, but the price has gone past what they might consider their own point of principle maximum.)

So while I totally get what you mean, I don't think everyone has just accepted this new normal. I can only speak for myself here, but I haven't accepted it, what I've accepted is that I operate at a level below this elite tier.

Some may consider that ridiculous considering some of the IEMs I own - I'm very grateful to have my collection (which in itself is ridiculous and totally unnecessary)
But the alternative is to sell them and buy into a price range I'm simply not comfortable with. That's my own choice though. For me, the pleasure of hearing the same album on the LX one day and the Sultan the next is an alluring call, and one I value over the (equally valid) "one to rule them all" that many also prefer.

Arguing over the price of it, though, has become a thankless and soul-destroying task

 

[gLer]

And it brings me back to the trailli that I find myself extremely skeptical of the claims that it's somehow noticeably "better" than anything else out there on the market. I haven't heard it so I obviously can't actually say. But I find myself thinking that while it may be an excellent iem, the hype almost certainly has to be in part due to the price.

I know we've gone in circles on this but Traillii is one of only two IEMs that I've heard for myself where the sound justifies the hype (the other being the BLON BL-03 at $5970 less than the cost of a fresh Bird).

I will also go around in circles again and say that the Traillii definitely earns its money at $4000-$4500 sans the 4w PW Audio 1960s cable, and compared to the Fourte it does enough things right to justify the $1000 price premium (assuming you think the Fourte justifies its price, which I do). It does NOT justify the price sans cable, though those that own it without any financial pain would probably argue differently. Circles again, I know. But, like that line in that cool song goes:

"I believe the struggle for financial freedom isn't fair
I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires"

 

[xenithon]

Markets move. Perceptions change. Products improve. Take the motor vehicle for example. In the 70's the phrase "supercar" was pegged. I think it was the Miura that first got that title? Caused a bit of a stir. Fast forward 30-40 years later to the mid 2010's and a new phrase came about - the "hypercar". It pushes the boundaries of what is possible - while a supercar offers world-class performance, a hypercar goes a step further.

Various factors go into the difference between these on some spectrum including performance, availability / rarity, engineering ingenuity, and yes...price.

So maybe it is a case that we are starting to see a new "breed" of IEMs, that pull away from just being flagships or TOTL. Maybe it is the birth of the HIEM (hyper IEM) of which there are only a handful at the moment...the likes of Traillii, Erlkonig, Mason, King Arthur, et al.

 

[aaf evo]

Speaking of King Arthur, I heard that’s actually a good IEM but I can’t for the life of me remember where I even read that. Seems to be a super elusive IEM to find just about any information on.

 

[xenithon]

Speaking of King Arthur, I heard that’s actually a good IEM but I can’t for the life of me remember where I even read that. Seems to be a super elusive IEM to find just about any information on.

After the bird and Orpheus, maybe hit Andrew up about it - I'm sure you'll get a "return customer" discount

 

[aaf evo]

After the bird and Orpheus, maybe hit Andrew up about it - I'm sure you'll get a "return customer" discount

My audio wallet is in negative status.

 

[gLer]

After the bird and Orpheus, maybe hit Andrew up about it - I'm sure you'll get a "return customer" discount

IIRC Empire Ears makes the King Arthur for Effect Audio. Could be wrong, but since it looks oddly similar to an LX with the standard black acrylic shell, it wouldn't surprise me if it's one of Dean's creations.