[ranfan]

It's kinda ominous where this is going. Similar to the luxury watches, reputable makers could start charging premium for entry to their brand. I mean IEMs are in a way kinda like paintings or artisanal products. Some sort of collectibles with artistic value attached. And when it comes to something related to sentiments and beauty, people would pay a lot for access or ownership. I just hope it doesn't lead that way. Rather than brand name and appearance (form), I'd rather pay for the engineering and sound (function). More people should be able to enjoy high-quality music more often

Luckily IEMs aren't really suitable for fashion display (peacock tail), or else we'd see celebrities wearing them on the red carpet marking up the price

 

[gLer]

Luckily IEMs aren't really suitable for fashion display (peacock tail), or else we'd see celebrities wearing them on the red carpet marking up the price

They do...except it's all the sponsored consumer brands like Beats, Apple and Sony, and all wireless.

I personally don't consider IEMs to be jewellery; I do insist on them looking great, with top notch build quality and ergonomics, but that has to meld with TOTL SQ to justify anything near the $2000 that seems to be the high-end baseline now. Exotic materials are gratuitous for my use case, though I can see the appeal for serious collectors.

 

[Deezel177]

Very well said. I'm not sure what happened to tech getting better for the same or less money with each iteration, but that rule doesn't seem to apply to IEMs (as it does to DAPs and other electronics for example).

With the Bird as an outlier exception - because it IS fundamentally better than most if not all its competitors - I'm not sure how these companies are justifying price increases. Maybe it works differently in a niche market such as ours, where demand and perception determine pricing. It's not that they can't make more to increase supply either, it's that they WON'T to artificially increase demand. It's a choice not to get into the volume game.

Ultimately in a niche hobby we as customers DO have a choice and a voice. Enough of us are in direct communication with the companies that make these products for us, so if there is genuine concern at price increases, we need to make that known, not just mumble into our threads and keep buying their wares.

Imagine, though, instead of coming in at $5-6K and fighting an uphill battle, the Trailli instead came in at $3-4K and completely blew its competition out of the water? What a more positive spin on the narrative that would've been. Then, everyone would've had to up their game at the $3-4K mark at most, rather than plan out a competing $5-6K product.

The issue with the Trailli's outlier success is that it's now also become the poster child for IEMs of that price range. When the Mason FS was first announced, rather than the reaction being, "Oohhh... it's asking for a lot... let's see how this one pans out," it was, "Yes! A Trailli competitor! Where can I pre-order?" There weren't any impressions or reviews online yet, and people were already pre-ordering it based on the expectation that it'd compete with the bird! "Well, the bird turned out fantastic despite its price tag, so I'm sure this one will too." All I can think of now is brands planning on pricing their IEMs the same, because that's the reaction they're gonna get; excitement and intrigue, rather than skepticism.

Again, my issue isn't with the Trailli on its own. It's a genuinely-good product that makes its listeners happy, and I'm all for that. I can't blame Unique Melody either. They saw a niche in the market and went for it, and impressions so far suggest that it's in the bird's tier as well. My issue is with the precedent they set. It's an argument for the "price based on expected/perceived performance" method, and it's an instant source of doubt for any brand trying to disrupt the market with competitive pricing. "Why should we price our best efforts at $2-3K, if people will eventually eat up $5-6K if it performs well enough?"

These were the sentiments I wanted to raise with my reply to your post. Again, they're bleak, pessimistic and it assumes the worst of the people behind the pricing of these brands too. Hopefully, like we've said, this'll just be a blip in these weird, weird times, and the people running these brands will have the sensibility to think about the market and the consumers in the long run. I don't see myself being a reviewer for long if these trends continue, honestly.

 

[gLer]

Imagine, though, instead of coming in at $5-6K and fighting an uphill battle, the Trailli instead came in at $3-4K and completely blew its competition out of the water? What a more positive spin on the narrative that would've been. Then, everyone would've had to up their game at the $3-4K mark at most, rather than plan out a competing $5-6K product.

The issue with the Trailli's outlier success is that it's now also become the poster child for IEMs of that price range. When the Mason FS was first announced, rather than the reaction being, "Oohhh... it's asking for a lot... let's see how this one pans out," it was, "Yes! A Trailli competitor! Where can I pre-order?" There weren't any impressions or reviews online yet, and people were already pre-ordering it based on the expectation that it'd compete with the bird! "Well, the bird turned out fantastic despite its price tag, so I'm sure this one will too." All I can think of now is brands planning on pricing their IEMs the same, because that's the reaction they're gonna get; excitement and intrigue, rather than skepticism.

Again, my issue isn't with the Trailli on its own. It's a genuinely-good product that makes its listeners happy, and I'm all for that. I can't blame Unique Melody either. They saw a niche in the market and went for it, and impressions so far suggest that it's in the bird's tier as well. My issue is with the precedent they set. It's an argument for the "price based on expected/perceived performance" method, and it's an instant source of doubt for any brand trying to disrupt the market with competitive pricing. "Why should we price our best efforts at $2-3K, if people will eventually eat up $5-6K if it performs well enough?"

These were the sentiments I wanted to raise with my reply to your post. Again, they're bleak, pessimistic and it assumes the worst of the people behind the pricing of these brands too. Hopefully, like we've said, this'll just be a blip in these weird, weird times, and the people running these brands will have the sensibility to think about the market and the consumers in the long run. I don't see myself being a reviewer for long if these trends continue, honestly.

Fair points. As a reviewer I would sing the praises of Traillii (and probably FS too), but could not in good conscience recommend them to anyone but the most well heeled, experienced and money-no-object buyer. And I would make that very clear in the reviews. Also, the price wouldn't preclude me from saying other (less expensive) products are better. In fact, I see the $6000 'outliers' as a great opportunity for the established brands to release a new round of innovative IEMs that reach the same performance levels for less money. Only true competition is going to cut prices back down to size.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Imagine, though, instead of coming in at $5-6K and fighting an uphill battle, the Trailli instead came in at $3-4K and completely blew its competition out of the water? What a more positive spin on the narrative that would've been. Then, everyone would've had to up their game at the $3-4K mark at most, rather than plan out a competing $5-6K product.

The issue with the Trailli's outlier success is that it's now also become the poster child for IEMs of that price range. When the Mason FS was first announced, rather than the reaction being, "Oohhh... it's asking for a lot... let's see how this one pans out," it was, "Yes! A Trailli competitor! Where can I pre-order?" There weren't any impressions or reviews online yet, and people were already pre-ordering it based on the expectation that it'd compete with the bird! "Well, the bird turned out fantastic despite its price tag, so I'm sure this one will too." All I can think of now is brands planning on pricing their IEMs the same, because that's the reaction they're gonna get; excitement and intrigue, rather than skepticism.

Again, my issue isn't with the Trailli on its own. It's a genuinely-good product that makes its listeners happy, and I'm all for that. I can't blame Unique Melody either. They saw a niche in the market and went for it, and impressions so far suggest that it's in the bird's tier as well. My issue is with the precedent they set. It's an argument for the "price based on expected/perceived performance" method, and it's an instant source of doubt for any brand trying to disrupt the market with competitive pricing. "Why should we price our best efforts at $2-3K, if people will eventually eat up $5-6K if it performs well enough?"

These were the sentiments I wanted to raise with my reply to your post. Again, they're bleak, pessimistic and it assumes the worst of the people behind the pricing of these brands too. Hopefully, like we've said, this'll just be a blip in these weird, weird times, and the people running these brands will have the sensibility to think about the market and the consumers in the long run. I don't see myself being a reviewer for long if these trends continue, honestly.

The Fabled Sound was indeed marketed as almost an alternative to the Trailli, but IMHO it did anything but flop. There's plenty of impressions on this thread as well as others of people who prefer the Mason to the Trailli (and the Mason has a much cheaper option).

The one thing I wasn't a huge fan of where the release of the Mason was concerned was the release of the FS without the announcement of the FuSang. I almost bought the FS, and I know I would've heavily regretted it considering how much I like the design of the regular edition

I have been very vocal about not liking the precedent that the Trailli sets (an IEM with 0 attention to esthetics, build quality or proprietary technology yadda yadda), but I don't think that this is just what the market is now. We are seeing more and more reasonably priced IEMs that deliver outrageous performance (JH Jolene for example), they just receive a lot less attention than they should

Half the posts in recent months have been "why bother exploring different options and building a collection, just sell everything and buy a Trailli" - the drive for 6000+$ IEMs is to me 100% a consumer initiative

 

[Deezel177]

Fair points. As a reviewer I would sing the praises of Traillii (and probably FS too), but could not in good conscience recommend them to anyone but the most well heeled, experienced and money-no-object buyer. And I would make that very clear in the reviews. Also, the price wouldn't preclude me from saying other (less expensive) products are better. In fact, I see the $6000 'outliers' as a great opportunity for the established brands to release a new round of innovative IEMs that reach the same performance levels for less money. Only true competition is going to cut prices back down to size.

I agree. The optimistic take on this would be, now that brands know what they're up against, it's an opportunity for them to offer a giant killer and throw the ball back in their court. It's now just a matter of waiting - making our voices heard all the while - to see which reality ultimately pans out.

The Fabled Sound was indeed marketed as almost an alternative to the Trailli, but IMHO it did anything but flop. There's plenty of impressions on this thread as well as others of people who prefer the Mason to the Trailli (and the Mason has a much cheaper option).

The one thing I wasn't a huge fan of where the release of the Mason was concerned was the release of the FS without the announcement of the FuSang. I almost bought the FS, and I know I would've heavily regretted it considering how much I like the design of the regular edition

I have been very vocal about not liking the precedent that the Trailli sets (an IEM with 0 attention to esthetics, build quality or proprietary technology yadda yadda), but I don't think that this is just what the market is now. We are seeing more and more reasonably priced IEMs that deliver outrageous performance (JH Jolene for example), they just receive a lot less attention than they should

Half the posts in recent months have been "why bother exploring different options and building a collection, just sell everything and buy a Trailli" - the drive for 6000+$ IEMs is to me 100% a consumer initiative

Oh, I never said the Mason FS was a flop or "not worth" its price. What I was getting at is that consumers will now see those price tags as indicators of quality (specifically, Trailli levels of quality), to the point of getting comfortable enough to pre-order without reading a review or an impression. Then, brands, seeing that that's the reaction these price points now get, will follow suit and price their next flagships accordingly. Or, that's what the dystopian version of the future will look like.

But, that then goes to what you're saying with your last line, which I agree with so, so much. At the end of the day, the brands listen to what the consumer says, and the sentiment has unfortunately drifted to what you're talking about. At the same time, I can't blame the consumers either, because it'd be pretty preposterous to ask them to think only of the market and the future of the industry, and to chastise them for feeling happy about their purchase. Ultimately, when they say "just sell all your stuff and get a bird or an FS!" that is indeed how they feel, and that can't be invalidated. But, ultimately, the messaging that sends to the brands is really, really dangerous. This is something that, as a reviewer, I have to admit I've contributed to as well, and it's definitely changed the way I'm perceiving and writing about things. So, hopefully, I can use the platform I still have to make the changes I (and many others, I'm sure) want to see.

I second your thoughts on the timing of the FuSang announcement as well. I thought it was a pretty sly move to announce it only after pre-orders started for the Fabled Sound. I would've cut some slack if they were announced simultaneously. But, now, it only further cements my hope that this won't be the future we'll be looking at for long.

 

[mvvRAZ]

I agree. The optimistic take on this would be, now that brands know what they're up against, it's an opportunity for them to offer a giant killer and throw the ball back in their court. It's now just a matter of waiting - making our voices heard all the while - to see which reality ultimately pans out.


Oh, I never said the Mason FS was a flop or "not worth" its price. What I was getting at is that consumers will now see those price tags as indicators of quality (specifically, Trailli levels of quality), to the point of getting comfortable enough to pre-order without reading a review or an impression. Then, brands, seeing that that's the reaction these price points now get, will follow suit and price their next flagships accordingly. Or, that's what the dystopian version of the future will look like.

But, that then goes to what you're saying with your last line, which I agree with so, so much. At the end of the day, the brands listen to what the consumer says, and the sentiment has unfortunately drifted to what you're talking about. At the same time, I can't blame the consumers either, because it'd be pretty preposterous to ask them to think only of the market and the future of the industry, and to chastise them for feeling happy about their purchase. Ultimately, when they say "just sell all your stuff and get a bird or an FS!" that is indeed how they feel, and that can't be invalidated. But, ultimately, the messaging that sends to the brands is really, really dangerous. This is something that, as a reviewer, I have to admit I've contributed to as well, and it's definitely changed the way I'm perceiving and writing about things. So, hopefully, I can use the platform I still have to make the changes I (and many others, I'm sure) want to see.

I second your thoughts on the timing of the FuSang announcement as well. I thought it was a pretty sly move to announce it only after pre-orders started for the Fabled Sound. I would've cut some slack if they were announced simultaneously. But, now, it only further cements my hope that this won't be the future we'll be looking at for long.

Yeah it's a weird time for audio really. I will say that I really miss the diversity in the discussions however - a request for a recommendation used to result in a solid 5-10 options for someone to look at, at just about any price.

 

[gLer]

Yeah it's a weird time for audio really. I will say that I really miss the diversity in the discussions however - a request for a recommendation used to result in a solid 5-10 options for someone to look at, at just about any price.

Sadly this happens as us as buyers as we move up the ladder. I heard a good saying the other day, 'When you drive a Lamborghini you're not looking at Toyotas'. That's not a slight on any of us by the way, just reality. When I got to Fourte/LX level, 95% of the stuff I used to look at in the classifieds was no longer interesting to me. So when you're at Traillii and FS level and it checks all your boxes, what else are you going to recommend, especially if you've sold the others on? That's why we need the likes of @Damz87 to keep hoarding, and @Deezel177 and yourself to keep reviewing!

 

[Deezel177]

Yeah it's a weird time for audio really. I will say that I really miss the diversity in the discussions however - a request for a recommendation used to result in a solid 5-10 options for someone to look at, at just about any price.

Indeed, the market's slowdown has caused a lot of those gems to fall by the way side. Usually, you'd find them during random demos at CanJam's and stuff, so it makes sense that there's less of them at the moment. Hopefully, that doesn't last long. The market not being as saturated as it usually is also means that brands now have more airtime whenever they release something, so it makes sense to channel all that potential attention towards new flagships. But, at the same time, we still get those gems every now and again too. You've got the Jolene, the EVE20 and the VE7. You've also got the Softears line-up that a lot of reviewers have been talking about: The RSV, especially. But, yeah, it is sad that we can't come up with more examples right now.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Sadly this happens as us as buyers as we move up the ladder. I heard a good saying the other day, 'When you drive a Lamborghini you're not looking at Toyotas'. That's not a slight on any of us by the way, just reality. When I got to Fourte/LX level, 95% of the stuff I used to look at in the classifieds was no longer interesting to me. So when you're at Traillii and FS level and it checks all your boxes, what else are you going to recommend, especially if you've sold the others on? That's why we need the likes of @Damz87 to keep hoarding, and @Deezel177 and yourself to keep reviewing!

I mean... I own the FS and have owned most flagships except the Trailli and I still love the gear enough to be interested in releases at just about every price point - I think the hobby itself is the curiosity and that curiosity should be completely independent of price points. Sure almost nothing I buy will match the Noir/A18S/FuSang/Thummim for my preferences, but I still enjoy hearing and trying new things

The DITA x Final for example is way, way too bright for me (going to @riverground very soon), but I absolutely loved having it for a little while, trying a completely new-to-me signature and ultimately, moving on to something else

 

[riverground]

I mean... I own the FS and have owned most flagships except the Trailli and I still love the gear enough to be interested in releases at just about every price point - I think the hobby itself is the curiosity and that curiosity should be completely independent of price points. Sure almost nothing I buy will match the Noir/A18S/FuSang/Thummim for my preferences, but I still enjoy hearing and trying new things

The DITA x Final for example is way, way too bright for me (going to @riverground very soon), but I absolutely loved having it for a little while, trying a completely new-to-me signature and ultimately, moving on to something else

I’m so excited for the SK lol

Hoping to hear the FuSang one day.
And honestly, at this point, any of MMR’s offerings
I’m so curious how their IEMs sound like.

 

[gLer]

I mean... I own the FS and have owned most flagships except the Trailli and I still love the gear enough to be interested in releases at just about every price point - I think the hobby itself is the curiosity and that curiosity should be completely independent of price points. Sure almost nothing I buy will match the Noir/A18S/FuSang/Thummim for my preferences, but I still enjoy hearing and trying new things

The DITA x Final for example is way, way too bright for me (going to @riverground very soon), but I absolutely loved having it for a little while, trying a completely new-to-me signature and ultimately, moving on to something else

Don't get me wrong, I love to try new stuff, which is why I've taken up reviewing (as much as I can from where I live). Access to gear certainly helps, and that's where guys like Daniel and Alex (and you) have a huge advantage. I'd test anything, regardless of price, if I could only get hold of it, but since I have to buy most of the stuff in myself, that'll sadly never happen. As long as enough people have access to enough gear, we should be ok as a community and industry. Like Daniel says, the past 18 months have put a break on most industries (along with discretionary spending for many). Things will change quickly once the global situation normalises. Meanwhile I'm looking elsewhere for interesting tech, like development in TWS and noise cancelling.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Don't get me wrong, I love to try new stuff, which is why I've taken up reviewing (as much as I can from where I live). Access to gear certainly helps, and that's where guys like Daniel and Alex (and you) have a huge advantage. I'd test anything, regardless of price, if I could only get hold of it, but since I have to buy most of the stuff in myself, that'll sadly never happen. As long as enough people have access to enough gear, we should be ok as a community and industry. Like Daniel says, the past 18 months have put a break on most industries (along with discretionary spending for many). Things will change quickly once the global situation normalises. Meanwhile I'm looking elsewhere for interesting tech, like development in TWS and noise cancelling.

Oh yeah when it comes to Daniel and Alex I’m at best a wanna-be at best I can score some discounts here and there, with some very few exceptions where brands want to send me something specific to review

 

[xenithon]

Yeah it's a weird time for audio really. I will say that I really miss the diversity in the discussions however - a request for a recommendation used to result in a solid 5-10 options for someone to look at, at just about any price.

One of the observations I have seen, having been part of the community for nigh on two decades, is a recent shift from discussions on what IEMs have which capabilities - which organically are diverse in nature - to recommendations being largely centered around what a specific person owns. It's a form of confirmation bias that what they selected is "the shizniz".

Similarly the types of questions have shifted slightly, from "what could meet the following criteria in terms of sound profile and budget and ergonomics et al" to "how is this IEM? And is it better than X / Y / Z". The forum posts are thus often shaped by the questioning methodologies.

 

[mvvRAZ]

One of the observations I have seen, having been part of the community for nigh on two decades, is a recent shift from discussions what IEMs have which capabilities - which organically are diverse in nature - to recommendations being largely what a specific person owns. It's a form of confirmation bias that what they selected is "the shizniz".

Similarly the types of questions have shifted slightly, from "what could meet the following criteria in terms of sound profile and budget and ergonomics et al" to "how is this IEM? And is it better than X / Y / Z". The forum posts are thus often shaped by the questioning methodologies.

That too, I agree. A lot of the questions are also along the lines of “I have no idea what I like what do I buy” which predisposes universal recommendations even more so