[mvvRAZ]

Hard to drive IEM’s though, yeah? Not sensitive ones?

I just don’t see the point in buying a dedicated amp for a sensitive IEM like Solaris or Erlky lol. Fair enough for something like Elysium or IER-Z1R though.

Me neither, I generally don't get the point of a dedicated amp for any IEM when pretty much any DAP is sufficient for any IEM

 

[bluestorm1992]

Me neither, I generally don't get the point of a dedicated amp for any IEM when pretty much any DAP is sufficient for any IEM

Michael, that’s probably because you are mostly using TOTL DAPs. In terms of driving IEMs, the improvement from adding C9 is definitely smaller if you pair it with something like P6 Pro, compared to when you pair it with mid-tier DAPs like LP6K or R6.

Basically, if we agree that there is a difference between mid-tier DAPs and TOTL DAPs in their ability in driving IEMs, then C9 shall be a (potentially) useful improvement to the audio chain.

Edit: To quickly add, C9 is definitely doing something very noticeable to my N6ii (E02). My reference point is Hugo 2. N6ii is nowhere near Hugo 2 without C9. With C9, it becomes at least a draw to me with my various IEMs. Of course, we can talk about whether this is due to synergy or other things, but I just want to point out that, to me, the improvement it has for mid-tier DAPs is genuinely there.

 

[bluestorm1992]

Me neither, I generally don't get the point of a dedicated amp for any IEM when pretty much any DAP is sufficient for any IEM

BTW, I am also getting the P6 Pro. You and @mungster are responsible!!! Just kidding, I am sure it will be great.

 

[twister6]

AFAIK Cayin designed their C9 to be used specifically with IEMs. Hard to drive HPs weren’t really their target

I don't have too many hard to drive headphones, R70x being only one of the few (470ohm, 99dB sensitivity) which did pair up well, but from other impressions in C9 thread, many enjoy pair up with Diane V2 and HD800s.

But yeah, if you were planning to use C9 with Odin, Erl, or Andro/Solaris - not a good idea. But on the other hand, Traillii, Ely, Legend X, and even A/U18t - you will enjoy it.

Btw, Romi Audio BX2 has even more power, and zero hissing. But it is useless for iems because of too much power.

 

[immortalsoul]

I don't have too many hard to drive headphones, R70x being only one of the few (470ohm, 99dB sensitivity) which did pair up well, but from other impressions in C9 thread, many enjoy pair up with Diane V2 and HD800s.

But yeah, if you were planning to use C9 with Odin, Erl, or Andro/Solaris - not a good idea. But on the other hand, Traillii, Ely, Legend X, and even A/U18t - you will enjoy it.

Btw, Romi Audio BX2 has even more power, and zero hissing. But it is useless for iems because of too much power.

Romi Audio BX-2 plus fixed that and even though it has even more power than BX-2 it is working great now with iems. You should check the new version

 

[twister6]

Romi Audio BX-2 plus fixed that and even though it has even more power than BX-2 it is working great now with iems. You should check the new version

I thought the only thing that was fixed was volume imbalance at very low level when used with sensitive iems? I gotta talk to Dino.

 

[immortalsoul]

I thought the only thing that was fixed was volume imbalance at very low level when used with sensitive iems? I gotta talk to Dino.

The new version is even more powerful than the old version, the BX-2 power is 3000 mW at 40 ohms and the BX-2 plus version is 5900 mW at 32 ohms, not just the volume imbalance was changed in the amp

 

[aaf evo]

Just a quick check-back on this. Based on @twister6's excellent review of the Cayin C9, a device that is currently garnering widespread praise, it seems to be similarly hissy with ultra-sensitive IEMs like Erlky and even more so Solaris. It also costs $2K and is considered to be a flagship external amp. Drop down to 3.5mm and low gain on both and the hiss is far less apparent, which makes sense given how much less power you're putting through the IEMs. So my question is, do you consider the noise floor on the C9 with sensitive IEMs similarly inexcusable? Honest question, and asked in the spirit of understanding where this 'issue' sits on the scale for different users.

its a bit of a situational thing for me, the r8 got extra scrutiny because it didn’t work with the erlky bc of sensitivity. I don’t have any sensitive iems anymore so I don’t mind, hence why I said I wanted to give the r8 another go. Basically, if I’ve got any sensitive iems there’s just no way I’m spending close to $2k MSRP on a DAP or AMP it it can’t handle the noise floor well.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Michael, that’s probably because you are mostly using TOTL DAPs. In terms of driving IEMs, the improvement from adding C9 is definitely smaller if you pair it with something like P6 Pro, compared to when you pair it with mid-tier DAPs like LP6K or R6.

Basically, if we agree that there is a difference between mid-tier DAPs and TOTL DAPs in their ability in driving IEMs, then C9 shall be a (potentially) useful improvement to the audio chain.

Edit: To quickly add, C9 is definitely doing something very noticeable to my N6ii (E02). My reference point is Hugo 2. N6ii is nowhere near Hugo 2 without C9. With C9, it becomes at least a draw to me with my various IEMs. Of course, we can talk about whether this is due to synergy or other things, but I just want to point out that, to me, the improvement it has for mid-tier DAPs is genuinely there.

Oh no I’m sure it is! I don’t doubt that, I am personally of the standing that an amp has way more effect on the sound than a DAC, so the C9 isn’t something I’m fundamentally opposed to

it just makes more sense for my use case to spend that 2 grand on a better DAP than an external amp - purely for convenience’s sake, nothing to do with the sound here

 

[justsomesonyfan]

Oh no I’m sure it is! I don’t doubt that, I am personally of the standing that an amp has way more effect on the sound than a DAC, so the C9 isn’t something I’m fundamentally opposed to

it just makes more sense for my use case to spend that 2 grand on a better DAP than an external amp - purely for convenience’s sake, nothing to do with the sound here

but those 2k might be worth it, maybe a 1k dap + c9 > 3k dap.

saying might because subjective af when it comes to totl gear

 

[mvvRAZ]

but those 2k might be worth it, maybe a 1k dap + c9 > 3k dap.

saying might because subjective af when it comes to totl gear

Definitely, haven’t tried the C9 to really comment on how well it stacks up. I’m only really looking at it from a convenience perspective

 

[feverfive]

I've run stacks of varying types & sizes. Even with my usage (very little travel, work from home, move room to room, inside to outside, etc.) I got tired of that. I love being able to decide on the fly to just move from upstairs office to backyard patio and slip a DAP into my pocket.

That said......the gear-fi fiend in me always stans over new stuff like the C9. I am such a nerd when it comes to gadgets. A big difference between the me of ~8 years ago and the present me is that I have soooo many more responsibilities + other hobbies, so my wallet is easier to keep in my pocket now, hahahaha.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Michael, that’s probably because you are mostly using TOTL DAPs. In terms of driving IEMs, the improvement from adding C9 is definitely smaller if you pair it with something like P6 Pro, compared to when you pair it with mid-tier DAPs like LP6K or R6.

Basically, if we agree that there is a difference between mid-tier DAPs and TOTL DAPs in their ability in driving IEMs, then C9 shall be a (potentially) useful improvement to the audio chain.

Edit: To quickly add, C9 is definitely doing something very noticeable to my N6ii (E02). My reference point is Hugo 2. N6ii is nowhere near Hugo 2 without C9. With C9, it becomes at least a draw to me with my various IEMs. Of course, we can talk about whether this is due to synergy or other things, but I just want to point out that, to me, the improvement it has for mid-tier DAPs is genuinely there.

This whole discussion has me thinking. What is actually most responsible for delivering the best sound quality we experience? The conventional wisdom is that everything in the sound chain affects sound, but some more than others. The IEM/Headphone has the greatest impact, then the Amp, and so on. But, how much of that is simply because the various pairings make slight adjustments to the Frequency Response curve to make it perfect to our taste? Clearly, there are technical attributes of an IEM or headphone that uniquely impact sound outside of FR like timbre or sound stage. Tubes add distortion that is pleasant to the ear that don't change FR much. So this begs the question, if you can make perfect EQ adjustments to tune an IEM or headphone to your specific preference curve, what in the sound chain produces the remaining elements of sound quality we experience? Is it possible to make a $1200 DAP sound better than a $3000 DAP with EQ? What does the C9 actually do to the sound to improve it that EQ or pure power can't fix?

 

[bluestorm1992]

This whole discussion has me thinking. What is actually most responsible for delivering the best sound quality we experience? The conventional wisdom is that everything in the sound chain affects sound, but some more than others. The IEM/Headphone has the greatest impact, then the Amp, and so on. But, how much of that is simply because the various pairings make slight adjustments to the Frequency Response curve to make it perfect to our taste? Clearly, there are technical attributes of an IEM or headphone that uniquely impact sound outside of FR like timbre or sound stage. Tubes add distortion that is pleasant to the ear that don't change FR much. So this begs the question, if you can make perfect EQ adjustments to tune an IEM or headphone to your specific preference curve, what in the sound chain produces the remaining elements of sound quality we experience? Is it possible to make a $1200 DAP sound better than a $3000 DAP with EQ? What does the C9 actually do to the sound to improve it that EQ or pure power can't fix?

I don’t have any conclusive answer as I have basically 0 knowledge in how to properly do EQ. My only related experience is the PMEQ in LPGT, which to me does more to change the sound signature instead of the “physical” aspect of the sound such as the clarity.

With this being said, the one thing I have seen an big improvement from C9, which I don’t think EQ can deliver, is the clarity of the sound. The N6ii sounds muddy without C9, and you hear basically nothing in the background. I think the clarity C9 offers is more than dialing up several DB in part of the FQ curve. Instead, the clarity comes from a lower distortion and a better handling of the DAC signals, thanks to the dedicated power supply and better circuit design.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I don’t have any conclusive answer as I have basically 0 knowledge in how to properly do EQ. My only related experience is the PMEQ in LPGT, which to me does more to change the sound signature instead of the “physical” aspect of the sound such as the clarity.

With this being said, the one thing I have seen an big improvement from C9, which I don’t think EQ can deliver, is the clarity of the sound. The N6ii sounds muddy without C9, and you hear basically nothing in the background. I think the clarity C9 offers is more than dialing up several DB in part of the FQ curve. Instead, the clarity comes from a lower distortion and a better handling of the DAC signals, thanks to the dedicated power supply and better circuit design.

EQ can absolutely improve clarity. In fact, it is the most common thing I do with EQ. You can dramatically improve the clarity of the ZMF VC just by tuning it to Harman which isn't even the best target frequency response curve. What is really interesting is to tune 2 different headphones like an HD800S and ZMF VC to the same curve and listen to them. They sound very similar, the difference in sound is the real difference between the headphones drivers and design. A lot of the ZMF house sound is achieved through the tuning which can be adjusted via EQ. I think other attributes cannot be EQ'd like sound stage. One theory is you take the most technically accomplished headphone or IEM and simply tune it to your own preference curve and you have an S rated IEM or headphone.