[Kabeer]

Even cookies dont look this good fresh out of the oven!
 
Ol' Smeggy's latest TP creations, amazing craftsmanship, no one does it like him .

 
Quote:

 I've liked the idea of a foam diaphragm ever since we thought we'd found an ortho with a foam diaphragm (Denon?). S
 

Didnt we decide that the Denon's werent orthos??
edit: just realised you said 'thought''

 

[vid]

Quote:

More importantly, has the effect of ear wax on the frequency response ever been tested? Surely, enough of it would change the resonant properties of the ear canal (and I'm not joking)?

 
I took an initial initiative on this, because I really wasn't joking. (This post isn't strictly about orthos, but may hopefully be of some interest, and is of course applicable to ortho-listening.)
 
I assumed that any buildup of ear wax within the ear canal would change the resonant properties of the canal, and considering the ear canal resonances offer quite a big contribution to the final frequency response (of headphones), I did measurements to see what would happen. I simplified the geometry of the ear down to just the ear canal, i.e. I didn't use an artificial pinna to record these graphs, only a tube that approximates the ear canal. I stuck a piece of blu-tack of varying sizes inside the tube to simulate a buildup of ear wax and measured the resulting frequency responses (off an old pair of AKG).
 
The frequency curves are placed in relation to each other in amplitude, so if one curve is below another, it means it recorded more quiet.
 
Here's a pic looking down into the ear canal tube; the mic is at the bottom. First image is with no 'wax', second with a bit, third with a lot. The location of the 'wax' is near the opening of the tube, maybe about a fourth into it. The tube itself is about 3 cm long, roughly.

 
Here are the corresponding frequency graphs.

 
Edit: Below is the same graph as above, but rather than arranged by amplitude, each curve has instead been set at the same dB level at 1 kHz, making it easier to see how they differ from each other.

 
I also tried it with just a tiny bit of 'wax', and the results may or may not fit within the margin of measurement error (yet I'm quite sure they're statistically significant). The program I use doesn't allow more than three simultaneous graphs, so I split it.


 
In other words, the buildup of ear wax most likely does change the resonant properties of the ear canal (or, at least, of the approximation of the ear canal, which is to say a straight tube). I'm quite sure I'd get different results if I placed the wax further down the tube or added another ball of it in another place.
 
Note: Don't put anything inside your ear in an attempt to remove your ear wax.

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

 
Didnt we decide that the Denon's werent orthos??

Yeah Don has them now in his vault.  I believe they told him they were plain ol dynamics.  Though pretty decent ones for what they are.  They sound kind of like a stock YHD1. 

 

[scompton]

Quote:

The T50rp doesn't suffer from distortion, especially coming from John Grados.  I think what you probably want is in fact more distortion.  There's no ortho that will give you that howling at the moon bleeding ear feeling of Grados, although you could tune them to be really forward in the upper mids in a simlar (though still more accurate) way.  The whole point IMO is in fact to give you a fast, detailed sound without that howl. 
 
But a Hifiman is probably your best bet.  Maybe the original wooden HE5.  People often described it as a planar RS1
 
Also, a closed wooden cup isn't going to fix anything in your T50rp.  it's all in the damping

I heard Colin's (cetoole) HE5 at a meet and I didn't like the sound at all.  It sounded like a typical under damped ortho. 
 


 
Quote:

That's easy. Realistic STA-2200. Heh heh.

That's what I was going to suggest.  A number of mid-range vintage receivers work such as the Yamaha CR-620, Marantz 2230, etc.  The nice thing about the STA-2200, is that it was high end and sells for the same price as mid or low range models for other brands.  If you're looking to get an HE-6, you'll want at least 60 amps or you'll have to run it off of the speaker taps.  Vintage is the only way you'll get $100 amp to drive the high end modern orthos.
 
Check out the Calling all vintage amp/receiver thread.
 

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

I heard Colin's (cetoole) HE5 at a meet and I didn't like the sound at all.  It sounded like a typical under damped ortho. 
 

 
But do you like the RS1? 

 
Everything I've heard you guys say about the HE5 made me uninterested in hearing them except for learning purposes if there was one sitting around.  It's worth hearing an HE500 though.  They are probably the best undamped ortho around.  Or maybe the only good sounding undamped ortho ever...  Though I still like my vintage babies more. 

 

[scompton]

It's been years since I listened to a Grado.  At the first meet I attended, there were a lot of Grados and I tried them all and couldn't deal with the lack of comfort.  The few times I've tried them since, I've put them on, instantly felt the discomfort and took them right off.  I haven't listened enough to know if I like them.  I can't imagine they sound much like a muffled, under damped ortho though.  I've only heard the HE-6 from the $1300 HiFi Man amp and my STA-2200 and they sounded pretty good though both.  My 52 year old ears don't hear some of the bad treble peaks some headphones have though so YMMV.  A good example is that to me a K601 and DT880 250 ohm sound almost identical FR wise.  I can't hear the spike that the DT880 has that make others hate it.  I got flamed in a thread when I said they sounded the same to me, with the only difference being he sound stage.
 
At the last DC meet, someone representing HiFi Man brought the entire line up.  The only 2 I listened to were the HE-400 and HE-6.  I was hoping the HE-400 would work from my iPod, but it really didn't.  I heard some clipping with some of the tracks I use to test bass.  Not as bad as some vintage orthos, but still not good enough.  I need to make pads for my YHD-1.

 

[rhythmdevils]

I probably shouldn't say that about HE5 and RS1 because I havn'et heard the HE5...  Just combining what others have said. 
 
Sony V150 earpads are a decent fit for the YHD1.  You can get cheap ones on ebay.  I'm not sure how to hold them on there though... takk didn't work too well for me. 

 

[bluemonkeyflyer]

Gorgeous "functional art."  
 
When I get mine back from Smeggy, I'll post a picture of his unique creation. I don't know how he does it.  
 

 
Quote:

Even cookies dont look this good fresh out of the oven!
 
Ol' Smeggy's latest TP creations, amazing craftsmanship, no one does it like him .

 
Didnt we decide that the Denon's werent orthos??
edit: just realised you said 'thought''

 

 

[scompton]

Quote:

I probably shouldn't say that about HE5 and RS1 because I havn'et heard the HE5...  Just combining what others have said. 
 
Sony V150 earpads are a decent fit for the YHD1.  You can get cheap ones on ebay.  I'm not sure how to hold them on there though... takk didn't work too well for me. 

I've been using carpet tape for the XB700 pads on the T30.  They do fall off occasionally but I'm not looking to use the YHD-1 as a portable.  I just would like an ortho when I'm away from my computer and just listening to the iPod.
 
Speaking of the T30,  it's interesting that it doesn't measure as well as the T20, but I like it a lot more.  Kind of like Don's Wharfdales.

 

[painter]

Quote:

The T50rp doesn't suffer from distortion, especially coming from John Grados.  I think what you probably want is in fact more distortion.  There's no ortho that will give you that howling at the moon bleeding ear feeling of Grados, although you could tune them to be really forward in the upper mids in a simlar (though still more accurate) way.  The whole point IMO is in fact to give you a fast, detailed sound without that howl. 
 
But a Hifiman is probably your best bet.  Maybe the original wooden HE5.  People often described it as a planar RS1
 
Also, a closed wooden cup isn't going to fix anything in your T50rp.  it's all in the damping

Thanks for the reply, although I disagree with your thoughts on Grados (well Magnums in my case) I understand what you are saying (btw I love my Sextettes.)  Grados for me are meant to be listened at low volumes where the distortion is less than many think, but I agree they howl and distort over a few milliwatts.  I know next to nothing about orthos but get the sense this Fostex is a very well engineered driver in a not so great "packaging."   Today I added more of the thin craft foam to the cups and "sealed" the driver's back with clay. 
 
I did a switch between the Fostex and the Magnums listening to a very talented guitarist.   I am shocked that I really like the Fostex for electric guitar.  What I hear is the Magnums play the upper half of the notes of the guitar with extreme detail and presence,  while the Fostex do the same with the lower half of the guitar.    After listening to Grados for 15+ years these are the first headphones that I can say may just out-do the Grados with guitar and even female vocals,  if only there were a little more balance with the upper half.   What blows my mind is these Fostex only cost me $79 plus some foam and clay.  I just installed some Sure pads to try.
 
But I guess I am one who thinks you get what you pay for and can't help but think I should try a more expensive ortho like one of the Hifi-man's ( those whos hearing preference are similiar to mine are avoiding the LCD's.) 
 
The HE-6 requires too much power for me to consider  (that low efficiency inevitably leads to an amp design with a bit too much distortion.)  The HE5 is no longer made. 
 
That leaves the HE-400, HE-5LE, and the HE-500 (all of which I can build an amp around).   Would any of these be as inimate as the Fostex while adding a little more eveness (lift) to the upper half of the midrange?    Or should I continue tweaking the Fostex ?
 
Thanks again.
 

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

At the last DC meet, someone representing HiFi Man brought the entire line up.  The only 2 I listened to were the HE-400 and HE-6.  I was hoping the HE-400 would work from my iPod, but it really didn't.  I heard some clipping with some of the tracks I use to test bass.

Out of curiosity what ipod and which ipod generation do you have?
 

 

[scompton]

The first version of the 6G, 160GB.  For most music, I think the HE-400 would be fine out of an iPod.  Some of my evaluation tracks are very bass heavy electronica that cause severe clipping with the ATH-2 and HP-3 straight from the iPod.  That's not all I listen to, or use for evaluation, but I listen to enough bass heavy stuff to keep me from buying a headphone that won't handle it.

 

[leeperry]

Each time I read ppl complaning about the ipod(I've never tried one, nor do I plan to), I think about this nasty little toy: http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-RockStar-3-5-mm-Headphone-Splitter/dp/B0017PG8KS
 

 
How about plugging five HE-400 simultaneously then?

 

[LarsHP]

I have been searching this thread to find some general guidelines on how to mod an (open back) orthodynamic headphone. I found a few things that could be done in order to enhance bass and tame upper frequencies, but I would like to get things confirmed by those with experience - especially with modding open, full size ortho's like my HiFiMan HE-6. In priority I should try:
 
1. Adding felt between the driver and the ear. This should filter the upper frequencies and enhance bass (however making the headphone even less sensitive).
2. Extending the distance between the diaphragm and the ear.
3. Make sure the pads seal properly around the ear (my experience tells me that just about nothing happens when I clamp the headphones harder).
 
Are these the best options in terms of impact?
And in terms of sound quality?

 

[wualta]

The "best option" is the one that fixes the most-obvious problem you see in your headphone. Define the problem and then it'll be possible to work toward a solution. In the meantime, search outside this thread for info specific to the HE-6. I imagine not that many people own them yet.