Orthodynamic Roundup

[Indread]

I'm considering modding a T50RP.  I know they say the orthos lack sound stage when compared to an Electrostatic. But is this a general statement on it's lack of soundstage, even in comparison to most Dynamics?
 
And would applying the typical mods to a T50RP add more soundstage, or reduce the soundstage (for more bass)?

 

[nick n]

Before I go and do something thought I would ask anyhow, why not. Anyone see any reason NOT to secure a driver to it's baffle with a thin layer and bead of silicone around the edge,then adding putty for mass around it
as opposed to simply just securing it completely with putty. I mean between the two there is most likely an infintesimally minor difference and other damping materials would be the %99 important aspect.
Can't see how if it were an even layer it would be any different than the Pro30 or others that use a rubber baffle seal.
 
Any thoughts on disadvantages if any?
 
bah think i'll just stick with putty, no pun intended.
 
 

 

[LarsHP]

Quote:

Just use a bass lens. That would increase the bass relative to treble.
Cut out a circle of self-adhesive thin felt about the size of the driver, then cut out a hole, say, 3 centimeter in diameter in the centre of felt circle, and attach the ring on the front of driver (on the ear-side). Decrease or enlarge the hole if you feel the balance is too much off. You may also use non-adhesive felt, it's more transparent for the sound, as adhesive felt may overdamp the driver.

Thanks! This looks promising. I will certainly try this. I was already thinking of where to make holes in the felt, and thought of making them NOT in the centre, but now I will follow your suggestion and make it in the centre.

 

[LarsHP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif
http://www.head-fi.org/t/581132/lcd3-kirkland-bath-tissue-edition-a-k-a-toiletpants 

I could easily see it turning bad due to sweat, but still worth a shot I guess? IME, gauze compresses work great too.
There's only one way to find out what works, and yes apparently the HE-6 needs a monster amp...and poorly driven it could very well sound shrill.

Okay - Toilet Paper. However that mod is designed for making the LCD-3 brighter, so that's not the way to go.
My Audio-gd Master-6 amp delivers 7 Watts into the load of HE-6 (50 Ohm) and this should be enough ...
 
 

 

[LarsHP]

Quote:

1 ) Me, I'd go for the EQ option, since I have good EQ. But if I didn't, I'd be tempted to try the felt disc on the ear side of the driver. That's a lot of treble to soak up, the top two octaves. Does the response rise from 4k on up, or is the response stepped or shelved? If it's shelved, you might-- might-- be able to boost the bottom end with earpad tuning [and Nevod's bass lens idea-- earpads with a small hole, for example] and raise the midrange by removing some of the existing absorbent material, if any, and meet the 4k shelf. If the response rises from 4k up, felt or mineral wool on the ear side would be the simpler answer.
 
2 ) How many HE-6 owners are there? 

 

 
I might end up buying a high quality integreted speaker amp with tone controls (using speaker taps to HE-6), but for now I am trying to mod the headphone to see if it works. In the first year or so I was very satisfied with the response, but within the last couple of months I have begun to feel that it in fact is somewhat bright in the upper frequencies.
 
As you can see it's pretty much the whole spectrum above 3-4 kHz that would benefit from being toned down. According to HeadRoom's description of the optimum grahp, the HE-6 is spot on perfect below about 1,5kHz. Above 1kHz the curve should make a somewhat even line to 20kHz where it should be about 10dB down.
 
Frankly I don't know how many HE-6 owners there is worldwide, but the headphone has been on the market for about two years and has been getting impressive reviews just about all over the world.
 
 

 

[dBel84]

Quote:

Before I go and do something thought I would ask anyhow, why not. Anyone see any reason NOT to secure a driver to it's baffle with a thin layer and bead of silicone around the edge,then adding putty for mass around it
as opposed to simply just securing it completely with putty. I mean between the two there is most likely an infintesimally minor difference and other damping materials would be the %99 important aspect.
Can't see how if it were an even layer it would be any different than the Pro30 or others that use a rubber baffle seal.
 
Any thoughts on disadvantages if any?
 
bah think i'll just stick with putty, no pun intended.
 
 

 
I have done this before in an SFI mod, no regrets ..dB

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

 

 
I might end up buying a high quality integreted speaker amp with tone controls (using speaker taps to HE-6), but for now I am trying to mod the headphone to see if it works. In the first year or so I was very satisfied with the response, but within the last couple of months I have begun to feel that it in fact is somewhat bright in the upper frequencies.
 
As you can see it's pretty much the whole spectrum above 3-4 kHz that would benefit from being toned down. According to HeadRoom's description of the optimum grahp, the HE-6 is spot on perfect below about 1,5kHz. Above 1kHz the curve should make a somewhat even line to 20kHz where it should be about 10dB down.
 
Frankly I don't know how many HE-6 owners there is worldwide, but the headphone has been on the market for about two years and has been getting impressive reviews just about all over the world.
 
 

Honestly I think you should just get an HE500.  It's got less treble energy and is easier to drive anyways.  The HE6 sounds more detailed, but after you take away it's treble emphasis I doubt it would have much advantage. 
 
An ortho that is too bright stock is just about the worst place to be.  Unless it's a result of too much damping material on the back of the driver, but that is never the case.  I don't think damping the front/ear side is ideal, and it will be very difficult to find a material that lowers all those frequencies in an even way.  It's worth a shot, but the HE500 might just be exactly what you're looking for. 
 

 

[LarsHP]

Quote:

Honestly I think you should just get an HE500.  It's got less treble energy and is easier to drive anyways.  The HE6 sounds more detailed, but after you take away it's treble emphasis I doubt it would have much advantage. 
 
An ortho that is too bright stock is just about the worst place to be.  Unless it's a result of too much damping material on the back of the driver, but that is never the case.  I don't think damping the front/ear side is ideal, and it will be very difficult to find a material that lowers all those frequencies in an even way.  It's worth a shot, but the HE500 might just be exactly what you're looking for. 

The HE-6 actually has both a foam and some kind of artificial "wool" on the back of the driver. I should probably try removing the damping material there again to check it once more. If I make a hole in the felt (between the ear and the driver), then the sound waves will reach the ear directly and my worries about placing a physical veil (!) won't be as big.
 
If none of these mods works, I may have to get an integrated amp with tone controls to get the sound I want with the HE-6. Or else it will be put up for sale, I think.
 
 

 

[ludoo]

Quote:

The HE-6 actually has both a foam and some kind of artificial "wool" on the back of the driver. I should probably try removing the damping material there again to check it once more. If I make a hole in the felt (between the ear and the driver), then the sound waves will reach the ear directly and my worries about placing a physical veil (!) won't be as big.

 
Try removing the wool on the back and giving it a listen, treble should decrease. If it gets too low, try a different, more porous woolen fabric or cut a hole in the existing one.
 
 

 

[LarsHP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludoo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Try removing the wool on the back and giving it a listen, treble should decrease. If it gets too low, try a different, more porous woolen fabric or cut a hole in the existing one.

Thanks for suggesting this, but I obviously didn't explain about the "wool" well enough. The "wool" is not a kind of fabric, but simply a bunch of more or less loose thin fibres spreaded out between the foam and the back of the driver. 

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Before I go and do something thought I would ask anyhow, why not. Anyone see any reason NOT to secure a driver to it's baffle with a thin layer and bead of silicone around the edge,then adding putty for mass around it
as opposed to simply just securing it completely with putty. I mean between the two there is most likely an infintesimally minor difference and other damping materials would be the %99 important aspect.
Can't see how if it were an even layer it would be any different than the Pro30 or others that use a rubber baffle seal.
 
Any thoughts on disadvantages if any?
 
bah think i'll just stick with putty, no pun intended.

I don't think it would make too large of a difference either way and what works best will probably depend on the driver, the enclosure and the rest of your mods.
 
I'm in the process trying a few different combinations of rough and half finished prototype baffles and cup sizes for my T50RPs before sanding and finishing the cups and making the final baffle out of 1/8" aluminum instead of the rough-cut plywood I'm using now.  To make it easily removable I just hot glued the drivers to the plywood and even that seems to work just fine.
 
I think it's probably best to couple the drivers to the baffle as tightly as possible and then make sure the rest of the frame is mechanically damped as necessary.  OTOH a loose coupling could work better with a frame you can't damp as much as you'd need to.

 

[khbaur330162]

Ime you'll get a sharper image and cleaner bass from a solid fixture. I've used clay or tack to secure the drivers for "test drive" purposes, but I always go back to finish them up with epoxy putty. This impression was formed during the creation of my first SFI-380 before I had clay and knew others were also worried about mass loading baffles. Epoxy putty, at least the stuff I use, doesn't have the same damping qualities. Modeling clay is a much better mass loader as it'll absorb vibrations quicker and is cheaper. When mass loading the effect of a solid fixture will most likely decrease, but it's pretty apparent with no mass loading and this is why to this day I'll still cement the drivers down and add my damping on top.

 

[kalbee]

Got my new pads pleather cut out! Now I just need to sow them up, get the foam shaped up, finish three more exams and I am good to start trying again
 
 
On the damping note...
-From what I'm trying to understand, it is a good idea to affix the drivers to the baffles but not to mass load the baffle too much?
-For either mass loading or damping, would something lighter but with higher elasticity work? Like rubber or polymers like erasers? or perhaps filling the cavities with concrete might be a better idea (extreme example)?

 

[vid]

Quote:

Mod updates:
 
HOK-80v1 :
 
Went back in to deal with the overly compressed foam disc damping and went with the open back instead of closed by removing the stock rear
convertible plastic disc.

 
I did the opposite of this some weeks ago: put the plastic disc back. I thought it helped bring the sound together a little bit, and also brought out the treble somewhat. The soundstage is a bit tinier, but...
 
Did you by chance get to test the paper slip thing on the front of the driver that I described in an earlier post? I'd be curious to know whether it's just my ear that benefits from it or if it's maybe an international effect.

 

[leeperry]

humm Ludoo's search engine is seriously broken for me, nothing matches...date, post number =/
 
and google is useless on such big threads, and let's not mention the head-fi search engine...I guess you guys like to post it all in the same thread in order to make it unappealing to tourists but headfi seriously needs an ortho sub-section. Hopefully someone will realize that before we reach page 1500.