[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeer /img/forum/go_quote.gif 3) This is the one im gonna go with: Earpads! First of all, the T50v0 has the flat thick pleather NAD style pads. I have not felt T50v1 pads, but from what I am aware, they are a bit different right? To the differences between your pair, and luvdunhill's, my educated guess would be that your earpads are more worn out than his. Its the YH-1000 worn pad effect. Do you remember my Aiwa earpads? im going to hazard a guess that your T50v1 pads are inbetween NAD and my Aiwa pads (ie you have thin pleather that has started to crack), because the cracks in the thin pleather make the pad slightly leaky, and this elevates treble response in the mix.

Worn pads to blame for the famous great sound... that would be somewhat ironic, since it would mean that the legendary T50v1 did actually not sound exceptionally good when it was new.

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefectiveAudioComponent /img/forum/go_quote.gif Worn pads to blame for the great sound... that would be somewhat ironic, since it would mean that the legendary T50v1 did actually not sound exceptionally good when it was new.

Don't get me wrong, it does sound very with stock pads good too, in fact its enough treble for my tastes really

. Its just the trebles open up a bit more with leaky pads. (I have the Aiwa padded T50 on my head right now, and its v.nice).

The story is the same with the YH-1000, the leaky earpads elevated the trebles and openeness of the sound (but in the YH-1000 case the pads were much more open)
Think of your LCD-1, whilst not exactly the same thing, it's close, the leaky baffle allowed you to feel a more 'open' sound right?

 

[Sim1]

Nope, no way to look into the SS-100 driver without opening headpones. Drivers for ear's side are covered by gauze (right word?). It is really dense and I can see completely nothing, hehe, maybe some X-ray picture would show something

but I doubt it also - too much metal in there to see thin voice coil.

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sim1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nope, no way to look into the SS-100 driver without opening headpones. Drivers for ear's side are covered by gauze (right word?). It is really dense and I can see completely nothing, hehe, maybe some X-ray picture would show something but I doubt it also - too much metal in there to see thin voice coil.

Sure, that is the same on all T50/T30 type headphones. You can only see it by looking at the backwave side magnet. If the damping biscuit is glued to the driver then maybe its not worth it to remove it to take a peek (unless you are happy removing and regluing again)

If another SS100 owner has already removed the biscuit before and doesn't mind please show a photo of a peek inside the magnet slits.
(and troopers too, as you have the only other spare set of SS100 drivers we know of)

 

[wualta]

I'm entertained by the deductive gymnastics on display here, but I'm afraid for now you'll have to put me down on the skeptical side.

Leaving aside for a moment the lack of evidence for the existence of the 1975 Fostex-branded T50 for the moment, let's tackle the "wualta's T50v1 doesn't really sound like wualta says it does" theories. Let's assume that I can't tell whether the bass is weak (due to tiny cracks in the earpads) or the treble is strong, a fairly common mistake in judging gross differences when level matching is difficult or impossible. That wouldn't explain the amazing coincidence that the earpads somehow wore just enough to make a major change, viz., make the response flat vs the Maior or [modded] NAD and, as I've said in the past, compared to the Stax SR-X Mk3 'stat (this assumes you consider the SR-X more or less flat).

Cancellation eats bass starting at the lowest frequencies and working up, and adding bass boost doesn't fix it. The headphone takes boost well, and in any case the earpads are intact. The T50 pads are so wide it would take some considerable damage to give much leakage, and even if such leakage occurred, the diaphragm is hard by the ear to minimize cancellation.

One difference between the v1 and single-headband OEMs I've seen/felt: the OEMs had a thicker, stiffer, more plasticky material covering their earpads but were otherwise identical. The material on the T50v1 may not be real leather, but it's certainly more conforming. If anything, the OEMs should have lacked bass, but they didn't. In the case of the NAD, just the opposite.

But you can believe what you like.

As for the SS-100 driver not really being an SS-100 driver... You'd have to assume that the major differences between the driver depicted and the T50/T30 drivers represent a running production change and that the Swedish vendor didn't know what he had. I think that's a reach, but again, you can believe what you like.

And if you can't trust a Swede, who can you trust?

Oh, and belated thanks to tyre, who linked us to those SS-100 drivers just before they went out of stock.

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm entertained by the deductive gymnastics on display here, but I'm afraid for now you'll have to put me down on the skeptical side. Leaving aside for a moment the lack of evidence for the existence of the 1975 Fostex-branded T50 for the moment, let's tackle the "wualta's T50v1 doesn't really sound like wualta says it does" theories. Let's assume that I can't tell whether the bass is weak (due to tiny cracks in the earpads) or the treble is strong, a fairly common mistake in judging gross differences when level matching is difficult or impossible. That wouldn't explain the amazing coincidence that the earpads somehow wore just enough to make a major change, viz., make the response flat vs the Maior or [modded] NAD and, as I've said in the past, compared to the Stax SR-X Mk3 'stat (this assumes you consider the SR-X more or less flat). Cancellation eats bass starting at the lowest frequencies and working up, and adding bass boost doesn't fix it. The headphone takes boost well, and in any case the earpads are intact. The T50 pads are so wide it would take some considerable damage to give much leakage, and even if such leakage occurred, the diaphragm is hard by the ear to minimize cancellation. One difference between the v1 and single-headband OEMs I've seen/felt: the OEMs had a thicker, stiffer, more plasticky material covering their earpads but were otherwise identical. The material on the T50v1 may not be real leather, but it's certainly more conforming. If anything, the OEMs should have lacked bass, but they didn't. In the case of the NAD, just the opposite. But you can believe what you like. As for the SS-100 driver not really being an SS-100 driver... You'd have to assume that the major differences between the driver depicted and the T50/T30 drivers represent a running production change and that the Swedish vendor didn't know what he had. I think that's a reach, but again, you can believe what you like. And if you can't trust a Swede, who can you trust? Oh, and belated thanks to tyre, who linked us to those SS-100 drivers just before they went out of stock.

! I seem to have done the impossible and rattled Walty!

Dude, I wasnt saying you dont know what your headphone sounds like. In fact everything you mentioned was just one option out of theories I provided.

The hard solid fact is:
My Vintage T50 from Japan varied in certain cosmetics, damping and most importantly driver to the 'German' pair.

The age cannot be verified 100%yet (and yes like you I would like to see the brochure myself too), but its quite likely to be the older model from everything we have been told.

The sound is different to the NAD, (& Maior from your description as there is no nasty treble spike).
It seems to match descriptions of luvdunhills T50v1 pair from what I can tell. But not yours.

I never said what you heard was incorrect, I then tried to think of a reason to explain it, so earpads it was (since switching from hard pads to the Aiwa pads, which use similar softer pleather like the T50v1).
So you disagree with the theory..hmm. I have two questions.
1)What sound change do you expect if you pulled your T50 pads off and replaced them with NAD/Maior pads?
2)Why are the descriptions of the treble different between yours and luvdunhills pair, if my pad theory is not the best one then what would be better?

If this does in fact not sound like either a NAD, Maior, T50v1 then it is a unique headphone in its own right and we have to name it as such.
I guess someones gonna have to lend me a T50v1 to confirm it all

. Volunteers?


The SS-100 driver thing, I got no clue really, just that it would be more solid to see the T50 serpentine in a SS100 itself rather than a spare parts store. I was just hoping we could verify it.

 

[mypasswordis]

wualta, Kabeer's deductive reasoning may have been overzealous and preemptive but I do not believe it was entirely false or mean-spirited in any way. luvdunhill's T50v1 I heard was already lightly damped by dBel and I felt it could have still used another layer of felt to further flatten response. Of course you have your T50 right with you and I heard his pair awhile back but I did get the feeling that it was missing the last bit of treble extension, which may just have been due to the slight upper bass-lower midrange bloat/emphasis. I had my SR-X mk3 right there to compare. Perhaps there may be some variation even within versions.

 

[wualta]

Nah, no rattling. If we can't challenge one another, and challenge one another's challenges, the learning curve flatlines. Anyone is perfectly welcome to assume I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. In fact, I hope you do-- there's no substitute for trying these ideas out and drawing your own conclusions. Whatever works, works. Don't take my word for it, go out and find the information and bring it back, and don't be surprised (or rattled) if I challenge something that I think doesn't hold water.

Leaving aside the taxonomic considerations of the T50, I have no good explanation for the implied difference between the sound of my v1 and luvdunhill's. I wish we could get them in the same room and compare. What I will say is that mine was well cared for but also used well, which is to say, a lot. So the difference could even be diaphragm tension and/or "burn-in". See the wrinkles in the Kapton on the Japanese-auction T50? Something like that might have happened to LD's or mine to change the effective diaphragm tension. And who would be surprised at a running production change or even iffy quality control? But I don't think it's the earpads, not this time. Keep in mind that the Maior sounded just like my v1 from the bass up through the midrange and only diverged in the treble.

EDIT:
Quote:

Originally Posted by mypasswordis luvdunhill's T50v1 I heard was already lightly damped by dBel and I felt it could have still used another layer of felt to further flatten response. Of course you have your T50 right with you and I heard his pair awhile back but I did get the feeling that it was missing the last bit of treble extension, which may just have been due to the slight upper bass-lower midrange bloat/emphasis. I had my SR-X mk3 right there to compare. Perhaps there may be some variation even within versions.

If his T50v1 obviously needed damping, then it was quite definitely different from mine, and I'd have to fall back on production variations to explain it. On the other hand, Spritzer had one too and from his descriptions I'd've guessed his sounded like mine. So which is the odd one out? We don't know.
.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif If his T50v1 obviously needed damping, then it was quite definitely different from mine, and I'd have to fall back on production variations to explain it. On the other hand, Spritzer had one too and from his descriptions I'd've guessed his sounded like mine. So which is the odd one out? We don't know. .

Marc bought my set so we are talking about the same set here. I don't think mine needed any more damping but then again I didn't tamper with it a whole lot except running them fully open. Not a good idea...

 

[mypasswordis]

Goes to show just how few T50v1's there are in the world (that we know about). Maybe $700 really was worth it, in terms of rarity for collectors. I believe dBel said he did not damp further on luvdunhill's pair because he was juggling flatness of frequency response with soundstage, which we know is a precious commodity among orthos.

spritzer, you should've tried them with O2 pads before you sold them. Based on what Kabeer says I think I'd like them quite a bit as such.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Marc bought my set so we are talking about the same set here.

Facepalm!

As MPI said, it's a small T50v1 world. If tyre were still active on HF, we could ask him. I sent him a PM, but he hasn't been active since April '08.

 

[cetoole]

I actually still have Marc's T50v1, he left them with me to mess with the damping more. Just waiting for the micropore tape to show up. I am reluctant to peel off the old earpads, but with O2 pads over the stock ones, it doesnt sound too good to me. Weird echo effect going on, among other things.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypasswordis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Goes to show just how few T50v1's there are in the world (that we know about). Maybe $700 really was worth it, in terms of rarity for collectors. I believe dBel said he did not damp further on luvdunhill's pair because he was juggling flatness of frequency response with soundstage, which we know is a precious commodity among orthos.

Value is hard to calculate but 700$ is nuts to me and well I'm nucking futs.

The amp requirements of the ESP's argument doesn't hold water for me since the T-50 requires a very nice amp to show what they really can do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypasswordis /img/forum/go_quote.gif spritzer, you should've tried them with O2 pads before you sold them. Based on what Kabeer says I think I'd like them quite a bit as such.

I did and also with SR-Omega earpads and SR-5 pads. No way to remove the stock pads easily so that colors the findings but I didn't care for them the same I don't care for the SR-X fitted with larger earpads. What Smeggy does might change my feeling about the SR-X but I haven't taken it that far given how good the SR-X Pro is in clone form.

Edit: Colin beat me to it.

 

[cetoole]

If the stock pads are anything like the RP18 pads, which they should be, they peel off fairly easily. I just dont want to do that to the pads of someone else's headphones, as they are likely not to go back on as cleanly.

 

[mypasswordis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cetoole /img/forum/go_quote.gif I actually still have Marc's T50v1, he left them with me to mess with the damping more. Just waiting for the micropore tape to show up. I am reluctant to peel off the old earpads, but with O2 pads over the stock ones, it doesnt sound too good to me. Weird echo effect going on, among other things.

I knew it was too good to be true.

Let us know how the micropore goes!

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Value is hard to calculate but 700$ is nuts to me and well I'm nucking futs. The amp requirements of the ESP's argument doesn't hold water for me since the T-50 requires a very nice amp to show what they really can do.

I hear the T50 likes to set amps on fire, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer I did and also with SR-Omega earpads and SR-5 pads. No way to remove the stock pads easily so that colors the findings but I didn't care for them the same I don't care for the SR-X fitted with larger earpads. What Smeggy does might change my feeling about the SR-X but I haven't taken it that far given how good the SR-X Pro is in clone form.

Time to look up what smeggy did to his SR-X... although I think it'd be easier for me just to go ahead and make the SR-X Pro.