[GuyMe]

So busy with tests and crap so I will probably do little with the wiki through next week. I haven't even got this box of stuff out to smeggy yet, it's just sitting there all nice and packaged....

I made this though cuz what the hell Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - Team Ortho

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serge44 My Yamaha HP-3 has very small amount of bass.

Aha! then mine must be a Russian HP-3! This explains everything!

I wish it did..

F2D: Go back to the very first few posts in this thread. Planars have one advantage which is in one respect a disadvantage: there are no brakes. Let me explain... [sfx: running boots, screams] Okay, for those who are left, let me explain..

Ever used a triple beam balance? It uses a magnetic damper to stop the beam's oscillations. The magnet induces eddy currents in the moving beam which in turn create a backwards magnetic field which fights against the magnet's field. It's called Lenz's Law. Dynamic drivers have it, planar-magnetics don't. As a kind of poetic compensation, planars get the wholly-resistive impedance you've heard us going on about. The two phenomena are tightly linked. Stronger magnets don't help transient response in a planar, but has a very noticeable difference for woofers in particular and, to a lesser extent, headphone drivers.

Electrostats don't have brakes either. Look out! [sfx: long squealing skid, crash], but they have a diaphragm whose mass is in the same ballpark as that of the air surrounding it, which is why Stax tried for the thinnest diaphragm material possible in the 1987 Lambda Signature.... and then backed off, because they'd passed the point of diminishing returns in the Lambda enclosure.

You can damp a dynamic phone by simply giving it an intense magnetic field with minimal losses and whose strength is constant throughout the voice coil's excursion. This is harder than it sounds, which is why better dynamic headphones cost more. Their magnetic circuits are more carefully engineered.

It's kind of an advantage, being able to change a design parameter that doesn't throw off everything else..

.

 

[Serge44]

There are other ortho headphones with the same issue.
Yesterday I compared two Electronica TDS-5M's side by side. One of them has dark sound and slow weak upper bass, exactly what I've read from numerous posts of russian ortho-lovers. The other TDS-5M is a bass-light version with more prominent highs and clearer mids.The latter TDS-5M is very musical, awesome for 4AD rock, c- and j- rock, male vocal.
The same model, the same damping, different sound. Both headphones in NOS condition, manufactured in 1991.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif Aha! then mine must be a Russian HP-3! This explains everything. F2D: Go back to the very first few posts in this thread. Planars have one advantage which is in one respect a disadvantage: there are no brakes.

By control I did not explicitly mean "breaks", my logic flows more in a way the stronger the force the better pull of the driver, more uniform so to say.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif By control I did not explicitly mean "breaks"

Ah, but I did. What sort of "control" would it be if you made something move but couldn't make it stop?

.

 

[ludoo]

Quick question on the "bass light" HP50s: I have damped them like my HP3s, and they sound of course very different as explained in my previous posts. What I have not yet managed to tame is a huge treble boost: they don't have the typical overdamped sound, but treble is really too much. Nice, sparkly, but too much.

I will probably have to think a different damping scheme for the "bass light" versions. But if you have any tricks up your sleeves let me know. I tried putting the original paper discs (that I did not found in my "bass heavy" HP3s) in front of the driver, and they partially corrected the problem but they change the overall SQ for the worse.

As an aside, the paper discs in front of the drivers make me suspect that Yamaha knew these are tilted towards the upper frequencies.

Edit: I thought a bit more about this issue, and before trying to radically change damping scheme I'll try a disc of thin foam or felt in front of the driver. BTW, I forgot to say I recabled them as the original cable was rotten, and I *think* they improved quite a bit. Cannot be more specific as there were a few hours between my short listening times before and after the recable. If nothing else, they gained in appearance.

Edit2: I did a few tests on the SFIs I have at the office, and I might settle for a "reflect anti-dot", i.e. a disc of felt that stabilizes the bass with a hole in the middle. I tried it on the PanaSFIs and it seems to work, the excessive brightness (less than the HP50s but noticeable) is gone, and I can keep the extra disc of felt that removes the typical not-damped-enough sound without having boosted highs.

 

[ludoo]

I thought about it a few times today, and tonight I tried a different damping scheme for the "bass light" HP50s. I removed the thick felt and replaced it with a disc of thin, very dense wool felt. It's slightly larger than the inside of the earcups so as to fold properly on the vents. I kept the cotton wool below, and on top of the new felt I placed the original foam discs. In the pic you can see the difference in thickness between the thick felt (brown, below), and the two damping layers that take its place.

How do they sound? Very, very good. They have the same characteristics of the "bass heavy" HP3, but toned down a little: a little less bass, a little less soundstage, a sound with less body but more smooth. With good recordings they are about on the same level, the HP3 more exuberant and the HP50 more sober and with slightly more sparkling highs. With bad recordings/encodings the HP3 are more pleasant as they "fill" the music more, while the "bass light" versions let you hear all the faults.

I am still struggling with the SFIs, but I am totally in love with the Yamahas.

 

[smeggy]

Good tests Ludo. This falls in line with my SFI findings to an extent. I've found I like the SFI sound best when I hold them to my ears using my fingers covering most of the rear surface. Increased bass, smoother mids and extended highs. I'm trying to replicate the sound with permanent materials. I can get the same sound by rolling some plasticine to finger thickness and lightly pressing two strips per driver on the back. I need to find a more compact, permanent version of it.

 

[ludoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I need to find a more compact, permanent version of it.

Shall I send you a few samples of my latest woolen felts? They are thin and *very* dense.

 

[smeggy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludoo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Shall I send you a few samples of my latest woolen felts? They are thin and *very* dense.

I have some thin very dense felt here which I think you may have sent me. Tomorrow I'll play around a bit more to see if I can nail that sound properly.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludoo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I thought about it a few times today, and tonight I tried a different damping scheme for the "bass light" HP50s. I removed the thick felt and replaced it with a disc of thin, very dense wool felt. It's slightly larger than the inside of the earcups so as to fold properly on the vents. I kept the cotton wool below, and on top of the new felt I placed the original foam discs. In the pic you can see the difference in thickness between the thick felt (brown, below), and the two damping layers that take its place.

This sounds more like my experience with my YH-3. And a lot like the way i modded it, too.

I never really felt like the stock YH-3 was a bass monster, but the bass it had sounded hollow and sloppy and, yeah, reminded me of a stock YH-100.

I think we may be approaching clarity wrt the possibility that the lesser 1st generation yamaha driver came in maybe two forms.

 

[wualta]

Whew! Well, I hope one of you was the one who won a Fostex T20v2 auction for less than $40 shipped yesterday.

 

[ludoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whew! Well, I hope one of you was the one who won a Fostex T20v2 auction for less than $40 shipped yesterday.

I tried bidding before going to bed, but it was a US-only auction and it would not let me...

Edit: this looks promising for all those needing earpads for their vintage orthos.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludoo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I tried bidding before going to bed, but it was a US-only auction and it would not let me... Edit: this looks promising for all those needing earpads for their vintage orthos.

Yes it does. Especially if no lip is needed, and one can use double tape.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whew! Well, I hope one of you was the one who won a Fostex T20v2 auction for less than $40 shipped yesterday.

More evidence that no matter how often we tell people that the middle-years fostexen are good, nobody ever believes us and they just keep jonesing for something designed by mario bellini.