[Anaxilus]

I think I know who your JH5 user is, he hears pretty similarly to me as well.  If the Eq5 or GR10 ever fall below $200 I'll give them a go and see if they give my DBA's the boot.  At this point anything above that is going in my Customs fund.

 

[DaEMoNteNTAcLe]

lols.
in a way sm3 really is a legend here. everytime someone put it at the top, there'll be people chopping it down. but then, when placed lower, people will bring it up.
anyways |joker|'s rating didnt suprise me the least.
its actually kinda obvious when he rated ck10 as 10/10 last time, he is rating the sound based on technical capability.
better than ck10? yes, it doesnt have top peaks and bottom dips.
but what about those criteria that is hard, or can not be described or evaluated as technical?
such as feel? emotion? how immersive? musicality? logic? coherency?
sure, dba-02 scores in details, that's technical. but is it musical? for some, yes, it does what they want for their music.
 
for me? no, i dont need all detail to be crystal clear. There are details that should NOT be clear, just as in real life. those are the things u feel from the music, and should stay subtle.
if i am to rate sm3 myself, technically yes it scores. it also have better frequency balance than ck10, i have no argument about it being placed higher. but how far higher? the difference, if measured, is can be very small. but these are also the difference that make musical experience counts to those seeking them. I accept sm3 being superior, but i do not like them for the same reason people do not like hd650. just like some prefer ferarri and some prefer lotus. ferarri is technically superior, but lotus is known to be fun.
 
still, having a comprehensive list such as these and maintaining them is a job well done. thank you |joker|.

 

[tuahogary]

wow thanks guys.. unfortunately the dba-02 is rather hard to find in the UK. i see the eq-7 going of 130 quid in the classifieds section. do you think it is a good buy? also, how big is the improvement in the jh5? i assume it's more worth spending a little more for the jh5 than to get the sm3 or say the w4 that is coming out soon?

 

[average_joe]

The SM3 reminded me of autostereograms, you remember, those pictures with dots that you had to focus on to see the 3D picture.  Some people saw them, and when you see it, it is much more 3D than a regular picture (but devoid of color and the other details, of course), but there were many people that I know that hated those, but couldn't see the image ("all I see are dots, these things are stupid").  Here is the concept: "In order to perceive 3D shapes in these autostereograms, the brain must overcome the normally automatic coordination between focusing and vergence."
 
Of course, this is not a perfect analogy (or even a great one), I do see some parallels.  And once you could see the image in a particular picture, subsequent viewings resulted in the image appearing much more readily.  So, maybe all the SM3 differences are in the brain.  Not that people will agree, but I thought it was interesting enough to share.
 
Happy holidays to all the SM3 supporters, SM3 detractors, and SM3 neutral people!

 

[proedros]

no offense , but this is like saying 'only smart people get the SM3'
 
if benny didn't ''get'' them (and imo , he qualifies as one of the most 'smart' people here) then your theory just went down the drain.
 
does this also apply for people digging NIN , as well ? Cause i used to like trent , but now i find him boring and outdated - where does this place me ?
 
Chill bro , these IEM have nothing to do with IQ and perception here.
 

 
Quote:

The SM3 reminded me of autostereograms, you remember, those pictures with dots that you had to focus on to see the 3D picture.  Some people saw them, and when you see it, it is much more 3D than a regular picture (but devoid of color and the other details, of course), but there were many people that I know that hated those, but couldn't see the image ("all I see are dots, these things are stupid").  Here is the concept: "In order to perceive 3D shapes in these autostereograms, the brain must overcome the normally automatic coordination between focusing and vergence."
 
Of course, this is not a perfect analogy (or even a great one), I do see some parallels.  And once you could see the image in a particular picture, subsequent viewings resulted in the image appearing much more readily.  So, maybe all the SM3 differences are in the brain.  Not that people will agree, but I thought it was interesting enough to share.
 
Happy holidays to all the SM3 supporters, SM3 detractors, and SM3 neutral people!

 

[Inks]

x2 on not perfect analogy (though he did point it out),  i'm sure there's the case of people that "saw" or "got it" and still dislike it. 
Quote:

no offense , but this is like saying 'only smart people get the SM3'
 
if benny didn't ''get'' them (and imo , he qualifies as one of the most 'smart' people here) then your theory just went down the drain.
 
does this also apply for people digging NIN , as well ? Cause i used to like trent , but now i find him boring and outdated - where does this place me ?
 
Chill bro , these IEM have nothing to do with IQ and perception here.
 

 
Quote:

The SM3 reminded me of autostereograms, you remember, those pictures with dots that you had to focus on to see the 3D picture.  Some people saw them, and when you see it, it is much more 3D than a regular picture (but devoid of color and the other details, of course), but there were many people that I know that hated those, but couldn't see the image ("all I see are dots, these things are stupid").  Here is the concept: "In order to perceive 3D shapes in these autostereograms, the brain must overcome the normally automatic coordination between focusing and vergence."
 
Of course, this is not a perfect analogy (or even a great one), I do see some parallels.  And once you could see the image in a particular picture, subsequent viewings resulted in the image appearing much more readily.  So, maybe all the SM3 differences are in the brain.  Not that people will agree, but I thought it was interesting enough to share.
 
Happy holidays to all the SM3 supporters, SM3 detractors, and SM3 neutral people!

 

 

[average_joe]

Where did I state it had anything to do with intellect and knew some pretty smart people that had issues with the pictures.  It is a matter of perception with everyones brains being part of the equation in a perceptive way, not an intellect way.  The brain has many functions, not just what is measured via IQ  Sorry you took offense, none intended, I was just sharing a thought..
 
Quote:

no offense , but this is like saying 'only smart people get the SM3'
 
if benny didn't ''get'' them (and imo , he qualifies as one of the most 'smart' people here) then your theory just went down the drain.
 
does this also apply for people digging NIN , as well ? Cause i used to like trent , but now i find him boring and outdated - where does this place me ?
 
Chill bro , these IEM have nothing to do with IQ and perception here.
 

 
Quote:

The SM3 reminded me of autostereograms, you remember, those pictures with dots that you had to focus on to see the 3D picture.  Some people saw them, and when you see it, it is much more 3D than a regular picture (but devoid of color and the other details, of course), but there were many people that I know that hated those, but couldn't see the image ("all I see are dots, these things are stupid").  Here is the concept: "In order to perceive 3D shapes in these autostereograms, the brain must overcome the normally automatic coordination between focusing and vergence."
 
Of course, this is not a perfect analogy (or even a great one), I do see some parallels.  And once you could see the image in a particular picture, subsequent viewings resulted in the image appearing much more readily.  So, maybe all the SM3 differences are in the brain.  Not that people will agree, but I thought it was interesting enough to share.
 
Happy holidays to all the SM3 supporters, SM3 detractors, and SM3 neutral people!

 

 

[proedros]

Your thesis just sounded kinda elitist to me , that's all
 
I mean these are IEMs , and it's not like you tried them on acid and your sonic perception changed and went to a higher state of consciousness
 
contrary to brain functions , i think all people listen the same sounds , give or take
 
anyway - all is well and baby jesus is on par for bringing us all presents , so peace out.
 
(and do try the 262 and let us know if you like em

)
 

 

[shane55]

I think this is the point that Anaxilus was making earlier:
It would appear that with the SM3, many people are working very hard (either physically or mentally) to have them sound 'right'. Tip mods, filter mod, psychoacoustics... it's all too much for what is priced as a 'high end' (or even 'mid-high-end') IEM.
 
An IEM of this cost really should be 'plug-and-praise'. For some, it obviously is. Again, a very polarizing IEM, to be sure.

 

[Bennyboy71]

"A brain the size of two planets and they got me reviewing iems" - Marvin the paranoid android
 
Reasons why I gave up on the SM3, despite it initally floating my boat rather spectacularly, in no particular order
1) Fit - could never really get a fit that felt comfortable and kept perfect sound at all times (even with the Sensorcom tips), which is crucial for me as I walk a lot
2) Build quality - mine broke on me twice.
3) Cost - I could never quite justify spending so much when I was so cash-poor, so I sold them for something cheaper
4) The partial veil over the upper mids meant I spent ages tweaking eq settings on my J3, until I was spending so long doing that I forgot I actually bought the bloody things to listen to music through
 
Reasons why I love the RE262 so far:
1) Fit - stock double flange tips fit me perfectly and stay in place no matter what I'm doing, with constant sound quality performance
2) Build quality - bit early to talk about this, but they immediately strike me as less flimsy, Kinder Egg-esque than the SM3s.
3) Cost - got em for just north of £100 in the FS forum, which is a complete bargain
4) Sound quality is phenomenal and an upgrade over the 252s (which I happened to lose on the train, hence the 262 purchase),.  To my ears, using 'normal' setting (i,e, no eq needed) on the J3, and paired with the Headstage Arrow, the 262s outperform the SM3 easily.  And the reason?  They sound so damn rich, detailed and full sounding, they're the nearest I've heard to full size cans in an iem.  Completely non-fatiguing, they just let me sit back and wallow in the,luxurious noises they make.  Soundstage is less '3D' than the SM3, that's true, but that 3Dness is a bit of mixed blessing if you ask me.  Sure, its enveloping, but it's also ultimately a bit disorientating and confusing - kinda like the James Dean scene in the Planetarium in Rebel Without A Cause, its both spellbinding and overwhelming.  The 262s present the music in a more linear fashion, but the soundstage is so impressive I don't miss the 360 degrees of the SM3s at all.  Rather, they make me feel as if I'm listening to proper stereo speakers in a high end setup.
 
I can understand why the SM3 divide opinion far more harshly than most other iems, and I can understand why some think they're the absolute canine's wedding tackle.  It doesnt surprise me that Joker gives them 10/10 at all, given his stated preclivities with other iems such as the CK10 and DBA-02. Likewise, it doesn't surprise me that others score them much less favourably.
 
Me being the traitor I am, I've defected from the former to the latter camp over the last few months. But they have tastier women here and the food's better endowed, so what you gonna do?
 

 

[m27gio]

Does a thread like this exist for on-ear headphones?

 

[average_joe]

Not elitist, just a thought that came to mind.  I am not saying either way is right nor wrong, it just is (at least with the pictures).  What other IEM has been so polarizing and given people such a wide spectrum of sound perceptions?  And I listed my thoughts of the RE252 a while ago, which is a very very nice IEM, but I prefer others, so I don't plan on getting the 262.  Merry Christmas!
 
Quote:

Your thesis just sounded kinda elitist to me , that's all
 
I mean these are IEMs , and it's not like you tried them on acid and your sonic perception changed and went to a higher state of consciousness
 
contrary to brain functions , i think all people listen the same sounds , give or take
 
anyway - all is well and baby jesus is on par for bringing us all presents , so peace out.
 
(and do try the 262 and let us know if you like em

)
 

Yes, similar, but for me there is no work involved in hearing the SM3 the way that I do.  Maybe my brain adjusted and now that is how it is, who knows.

Quote:

I think this is the point that Anaxilus was making earlier:
It would appear that with the SM3, many people are working very hard (either physically or mentally) to have them sound 'right'. Tip mods, filter mod, psychoacoustics... it's all too much for what is priced as a 'high end' (or even 'mid-high-end') IEM.
 
An IEM of this cost really should be 'plug-and-praise'. For some, it obviously is. Again, a very polarizing IEM, to be sure.

@ Benny - thanks for your wisdom!

 

[mythless]

You either like it or don't.  Isn't that how everything is?  It gets to a certain point where some people begin to justify their reason on liking them and disliking them.  In the same retrospect everyone becomes defensive and attempts to, again, justify why they like them or dislike them so much that it seem that they're trying to convince the other party that they're completely wrong.  And, we lose the out on the discussion.

 

[ljokerl]

 
Quote:

Does a thread like this exist for on-ear headphones?

Somewhat: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/433318/shootout-61-portable-headphones-reviewed-meelec-ht-21-soundmagic-p20-added-12-15

 

[voicemaster]

Just got Sunrise Xcape and so far it sounds similar to the review. Thanks to this thread, I finally found IEM that sounds like KSC75 with isolation (sound signature is pretty similar IMHO although the Xcape sounds better overall). Just a question, does Xcape benefit from burn-in? I believe in burn-in, my other IEMs definitely sounds different than when I first got it so burn-in is real IMHO.