[esanthosh]

@joker,
 
Since I don't have MTPG / MTPC for reference, how would you compare MDs to DDM?

 

[pinoyman]

bro joker...
can you recommend an amp that is best for the MDs without being bulky, but a really great performer yet portable one?
 
thanks!

 

[Inks]

Anaxilus gets good results with the arrow, but if you want to spend less the T3D/T3 also does fairly well because it contrasts it's signature. The arrow is a much better amp thought, i'm sure.

 

[pinoyman]

hey inks, 
can i connect the arrow straight with the ipod classic?
can i ask how? i mean what wires to use...or does it already include the wires for the ipod connection.
 
i wonder...what does this amp do???
does it change the sound?
 
i am thinking if maybe the amp may help me boost the sound of my ue700 dual BA driver....and thinking of buying the MDs that belonged to you...which is now currently being sold to me by bro cory gillmore.

 

[Inks]

You need an LOD, fiio sells some budget ones that work well. The amp with the LOD will bypass the Classic's internal amp for the Arrow's, so it will change the sound sig and improve it.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

 

 
On the M1 size v. DBA.  The DBA is smaller and I wear them deep insertion a la Etymotic.  

 

[ljokerl]

 
Quote:

Nice review and nice pic, the only thing missing is the fact that you also get the Kind of Blue legacy edition 2 disc set.

Hmm.. it's not listed on Monster's site under accessories. I guess it's not an accessory per se but they do list a 'Headphone Test CD' on there.


Quote:

@joker,
 
Since I don't have MTPG / MTPC for reference, how would you compare MDs to DDM?

Sure. The DDM has similarly detailed and textured bass but never sounds excessive while the MD can sound overly bassy (for my tastes). The MDs have slightly longer decay but actually seem to resolve a little better. Pretty sure their drivers are closely related to Turbine Pro drivers which are quite quick for moving coil transducers. In the midrange the MD is possibly even more fluid than the DDM. The MD is also more forward, to the point of sounding a bit intimate with vocals, etc. Part of it stems from the fact that the DDM has a pretty wide soundstage while the MD... doesn't. Still conveys a good sense of space though. Good layering, too. Treble-wise both are non-intrusive. The MD extends just a bit further but the DDM has better air. I'd also say that the MD has a greater power dependence - the DDM improved only slightly with my mini3 when using a weak player like the ipod shuffle 2g. 

 
Quote:

bro joker...
can you recommend an amp that is best for the MDs without being bulky, but a really great performer yet portable one?
 
thanks!

I don't really have much experience with the amps that are currently popular. I'm not really an amp person and have been happy with my iBasso T4/D10 for more than a year now. Only use them when I have to, anyway. I tried the MD with those plus my mini3 and Rocoon RC-2 and the Fiio E7 I normally use with my notebook. I don't really consider the D10 or E7 portable but among the others I'd say RC-2 > mini3 > T4. With portability factored in the T4 would win every time though. I don't know anything about the Arrow or Pico Slim or whatever the latest word in portable amp technology is.

 
Quote:

hey inks, 
can i connect the arrow straight with the ipod classic?
can i ask how? i mean what wires to use...or does it already include the wires for the ipod connection.
 
i wonder...what does this amp do???
does it change the sound?
 
i am thinking if maybe the amp may help me boost the sound of my ue700 dual BA driver....and thinking of buying the MDs that belonged to you...which is now currently being sold to me by bro cory gillmore.

Inks is right - you need an LOD. You can probably pick one up on ebay for ~$20-30 but the Fiio ones work too. Of course you can connect an amp to the headphone out but then you'll be double-amping the signal which is not recommended. I don't think a single amp will work wonders with both the UE700 and MD. The UE700 is very cold-sounding and would need a warm amp (or none at all - improvements are minimal). The MD benefits from something more neutral or even slightly treble-heavy. Skylab's portable amp thread might be worth reading; not sure if he's updated it lately though.

 

[Anaxilus]

Great review Joker.  That pretty much summarized exactly how I hear the MDs in their own right and versus their brethren and competition.  Apart from SQ and signature you hit the nail on the head as to why I still keep and will continue to keep the MDs in my arsenal.  They do so much right and offer so much versatility beyond just being a 'checkbox' IEM w/ respect to SQ benchmarking.  I seriously could not find one point of contention in your review of the MDs.  Well, except I think the MDs have a better housing construction w/o that linear parting line on the Golds and Coppers.  Small potatos.  

 
Btw, did you ever use the Meelec Bi Flanges?  I noticed the tips in the picture but I know you have used the MeeBif's before.  Yes, I just said MeeBif.  

 
Man, thanks again for what you do here.  You are one of the Head-Fiers that hears the DBA, CK10, DDM, Monsters, etc. like I do.  Having you as a resource saves so much time and money for a lot of us.  Much thanks Joker!!
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Sure. The DDM has similarly detailed and textured bass but never sounds excessive while the MD can sound overly bass (for my tastes). The MDs have slightly longer decay but actually seem to resolve a little better. Pretty sure their drivers are closely related to Turbine Pro drivers which are quite quick for moving coil transducers. In the midrange the MD is possibly even more fluid than the DDM. The MD is also more forward, to the point of sounding a bit intimate with vocals, etc. Part of it stems from the fact that the DDM has a pretty wide soundstage while the MD... doesn't. Still conveys a good sense of space though. Good layering, too. Treble-wise both are non-intrusive. The MD extends just a bit further but the DDM has better air. I'd also say that the MD has a greater power dependence - the DDM improved only slightly with my mini3 when using a weak player like the ipod shuffle 2g. 

x2 w/ everything said in that post.  

 

[Stalwart]

ljokerl
 
great review of the MD!
 
Although it is truly a good IEM, I consider its design to be a "bit" too shiny...
actually it is fair to say that this is not limited to the MD, but also relates
to the Coppers and especially to the Golds.
 
I recognize that it is a personal preference, but if you look to the other top tiers,
they have more "neutral" look, and that's for a reason...
 
Anyways I wanted to ask you something in relation to the observation you made
i.e. "Driver flex is among the lowest among all dynamic IEMs (in contrast to the MTPC)"
 
If I understand correctly you get driver flex with the MD, but not as high as the Coppers.
Could you elaborate more on that observation? I wonder how you classify what is low
and high driver flex?
 
I find truly annoying the driver flex on my right bud of the Coppers, and more specifically
the vacuum that occurs and the constant fight to get it right, and at the end I'm still not
sure whether I'm getting equal/even sound response from both buds due to the precise
fitting.
 
Honestly, I didn't think that high class IEMs could have such an issue, but the more I go
into it, the more evidence I encounter - people reporting the same with the Golds, IE8,
and especially with the Coppers... and now the MD too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
if a particular unit experience such an issue, shouldn't be regarded as defective in regard
to the fact that a great deal of the other units produced don't have it? There are reports
of people sending back such an IEM and getting a replacement that doesn't have it i.e.
it all comes to the particular unit and as I see it it is more of a quality control issue.

 

[Anaxilus]

@ Stalwart.  I'd recommend trying something like the Meelec Bi flanges.  Much easier and consistent fit.  Brings the bass and treble in line although not sure if the treble might get a bit too bright w/ the larger aperture on the Coppers.  I think the Coppers were tuned w/ the Supertips in mind and the rest of the lineup inherited the same tips for obvious reasons.  The benefit of the larger bi flanges also is it makes insertion depth and fit cake by spacing them away consistently.  This will help w/ flex and vacuum a bit as its also more progressive upon insertion.  If you have a vacuum problem still, pull up on your upper ear and open your mouth before you pull them out. 

 

[Inks]

I think they include the Kind of Blue cds as a surprise gift. Thus, they just label it as a headphone-test cd(s).

 

[ljokerl]

Quote:

Btw, did you ever use the Meelec Bi Flanges?  I noticed the tips in the picture but I know you have used the MeeBif's before.  Yes, I just said MeeBif.  

 
Man, thanks again for what you do here.  You are one of the Head-Fiers that hears the DBA, CK10, DDM, Monsters, etc. like I do.  Having you as a resource saves so much time and money for a lot of us.  Much thanks Joker!!

 

Thanks, appreciate the kind words. I do like the Meelec biflanges (the soft gray 'balanced' ones) on many earphones but the Turbines are a bit too heavy to be used with longer tips for me since I prefer a shallower insertion with them. The housings end up exerting a bit of torque on my ears and can sometimes break seal. Sound-wise they are fine though - very similar to the shorter Sennheiser bi-flanges.


Quote:

ljokerl
 
great review of the MD!
 
Although it is truly a good IEM, I consider its design to be a "bit" too shiny...
actually it is fair to say that this is not limited to the MD, but also relates
to the Coppers and especially to the Golds.
 
I recognize that it is a personal preference, but if you look to the other top tiers,
they have more "neutral" look, and that's for a reason...
 
Anyways I wanted to ask you something in relation to the observation you made
i.e. "Driver flex is among the lowest among all dynamic IEMs (in contrast to the MTPC)"
 
If I understand correctly you get driver flex with the MD, but not as high as the Coppers.
Could you elaborate more on that observation? I wonder how you classify what is low
and high driver flex?
 
I find truly annoying the driver flex on my right bud of the Coppers, and more specifically
the vacuum that occurs and the constant fight to get it right, and at the end I'm still not
sure whether I'm getting equal/even sound response from both buds due to the precise
fitting.
 
Honestly, I didn't think that high class IEMs could have such an issue, but the more I go
into it, the more evidence I encounter - people reporting the same with the Golds, IE8,
and especially with the Coppers... and now the MD too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
if a particular unit experience such an issue, shouldn't be regarded as defective in regard
to the fact that a great deal of the other units produced don't have it? There are reports
of people sending back such an IEM and getting a replacement that doesn't have it i.e.
it all comes to the particular unit and as I see it it is more of a quality control issue.

Thanks. The Miles Davis can indeed be a bit ostentatious but I didn't notice any particular glances in my direction when I used them. In the end an IEM is really not that visible out in public so it's not a big deal - I got many more sideways glances the two or three times I wore the wooden Kanen KM880s out in public or my zebra-padded Earpollution Nerve Pipes.
 
You are correct in understanding that I think the MD has less driver flex than the Coppers. There's really no good way of quantifying driver flex other than in relative intensity and how much it 'bothers' you. I separate it into four tiers. Tier 0 consists of earphones that I cannot coax any flex from no matter how hard I try. From memory this includes the JVC FXC50/80, Head-Direct RE252, Yuin OK1, FS Atrios, Phiaton PS210 and a couple of others. Tier 1 would be earphones that sometimes flex mildly upon insertion but stay quiet at all other times. Of course flex can be coaxed out of them manually. Most dynamic belong to this category, including the IE8s, Golds, MDs, Panasonic HJE900s, Brainwavz M1/M2, etc etc. Tier 2 would be earphones that flex noticeably on insertion and again on removal. This would include the Coppers, Thinksound TS01/TS02, Xears TD100. And finally Tier 3 would be extreme offenders that flex as I walk from changing air pressure. These are usually very cheap models with thin driver membranes (e.g. Kanen MD-51, JLabs J3...).
 
If I had to rank the driver flex of Monster earphones on a comparative scale from greatest to least, it would look like this:
 
Coppers >> MDs >= Golds
 
IMO driver flex is just a side effect of using dynamic drivers in sealed chambers. Of course driver coating and diameter have a huge impact on how much something flexes. I'm tempted to say that uneven flex on either side of a set of earphones should be regarded as a defect but there's varying ear geometry to account for as well. 

 

[Stalwart]

Anaxilus,
 
thank you for the recommendation.
 
However I don't have any fit issues, I get pretty good seal.
The annoyance comes from the driver flex of the right bud.
 
 
ljoker,
 
appreciate the time you spare for elaborating more on the issue.
 
I understand that driver flex could be classified as side effect like
you said. But if some units have it while others don't I tend to think
that it is a defect (especially noticeable when just one of the buds
has it). Apparently it is hard to spot it on the production line, and
I guess more work is needed in that area.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Quote:

Btw, did you ever use the Meelec Bi Flanges?  I noticed the tips in the picture but I know you have used the MeeBif's before.  Yes, I just said MeeBif.  

 
Man, thanks again for what you do here.  You are one of the Head-Fiers that hears the DBA, CK10, DDM, Monsters, etc. like I do.  Having you as a resource saves so much time and money for a lot of us.  Much thanks Joker!!

 

Thanks, appreciate the kind words. I do like the Meelec biflanges (the soft gray 'balanced' ones) on many earphones but the Turbines are a bit too heavy to be used with longer tips for me since I prefer a shallower insertion with them. The housings end up exerting a bit of torque on my ears and can sometimes break seal. Sound-wise they are fine though - very similar to the shorter Sennheiser bi-flanges.
 

Ah...I see.  My phonak ear guides take the brunt of the weight.  Anyone sending you a 262?