putente
Headphoneus Supremus
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average_joe, I've been told on another thread that you've heard the TG334. Can you compare it to the Heir 8.A, please?
Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information)
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Love Music
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@average_joe : out of the Rooth LS3, Lear LCM-5 and Ambient Monitor AM4 pro which fits my needs the most in terms of the music I listen to and my sound preferences. I have to mention though that most of my sources are 320 mp3 and I will be using the IEM straight from my Sony walkman Z with no amp. Would it be a good choice to use customs or should I just stick with universals?
Hi Love Music, I noticed your post in here recently while looking through average_joe's customs thread and feel the need to chip in with some comments. I do have to apologise first of all about yr previous inquiry regarding the CK100 vs CK100PRO's on my original thread, but to be frank that's something that I truly cannot answer on your behalf, because as mentioned earlier in my initial review impressions under my thread, there's no true preference which ATH model between those two that I would go for japanese vocals, as CK100's main signature tuning is drastically quite different from the latest CK100PRO, while the latter takes its main inspiration and tuning traits from the earlier sibling CK10, plus improving upon some other technical aspects of it. (which I will elaborate more later in your own discussion thread as my explanation would seem totally out of place in here as this is average_joe's custom monitors consolidation thread, and I think I should show him some respect)
In short summary, my personal advice for you in terms of custom in-ears is no, you shouldn't really thread into this whole customs scene so easily when you haven't even had any experience with below sub-500 dollars top tier universal IEMs yet. Jumping up from Ortofons e-Q7 (Moving Armature) to High-End Custom monitors without having even any vague idea about their sound or signature (or issues like comfort) is just pure doom, and a very dangerous move for your wallet. I can however share with you based from average_joe's CIEM chart on the first page, in terms of custom monitor selection that probably sounds closest to CK100PRO's tuning would probably be either the UERM that Xymordos had recommended you earlier, or the Hidition NT6 or NT6 Pro models judging from the brief description that average_joe had provided. (and even that description may not be truly accurate/correct at that, as listening impressions could differ from person to person)
I will leave the current discussion at that, but if you are still seriously considering to jump on custom monitors, perhaps I think you should really read up music_4321's original thread discussion regarding custom IEMs as your main appetiser first, in order to get a rough idea of what kind of user experience (or rabbit hole) you are attempting to jump into the first place. Customs are actually not cheap investments, and resale value is really bad compared to universals. Are you prepared for that if your ear fitting/sound signature do not go accordingly as you may have expected, compared to other users' custom IEM experiences? Think you should pause for a moment and give that a thoroughly thought first.
I'm chipping in my own comments/opinions on giving you some advice regarding customs, not because I'm anti-CIEM or a customs hater, in fact I already have a Heir Audio 4.A that should be arriving within weeks from now, and I'm thinking about picking up Suyama's FitEar Monets somewhere in the near future in terms of another high-end customs, if I can get used to acrylic fits. I'm only commenting because we have exchanges messages via private PMs before, and I think we do share some similarities in music tastes, that's all.
engelhaft
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Hi Joe, I am just starting on the CIEM I have bought the Frogbeats C4 which some said should sound like the heir 4A but I have not heard the 4A so I cannot comment on that, the C4 had probed to have a good sound stage and a neutral sound signature but the soundstage is not as good as my EX1000.
I would like to explore the soundstage venue but keeping excellent clarity and good bass (excelent bass), could you recommend a CIEM that could be acquired on the US?
Thanks
average_joe
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Quote:
From my notes, the 8.A has more bass and less treble presence while the TG334 midrange is more forward in comparison with the rest of the spectrum. The TG334 bass sounds looser than the 8.A and the 8.A outperforms the TG334 from all the technical characteristics I rate.
Quote:
I would say the LS3 or LCM-5 are probably a bit better for your needs than the AM4 pro for your needs and sound preferences as the AM4 pro shines with an amp, but the treble quality goes down without. Of course the LS3 and LCM-5 are at very different price points, but the LCM-5 seems to me to be the closest fit. The NT-6 was mentioned, but I didn't list that due in large part to the price, but it is very precise and detailed, one of the most detailed CIEMs I have heard.
Should you stick with universals or make the jump to customs? Haonan put forth a certain point of view which has some valid points, and the mention of music_4321, who is very opinionated on the subject, and without getting into too much detail, owns one CIEM and made blanket statements based off his limited experience with CIEMs and pulled quotes from everyone that had a bad experience with a CIEM.
My take is this: CIEMs may or may not cost you more in the long run, but it all depends. I have heard the K3003, TG334, and PFE 232 among high cost universals and to my ears, similarly priced CIEMs outperform the universals. The risk comes in if you buy something and don't like it and then want to sell it. I do know people that own CIEMs they don't use. For example, one of the people I know has a CIEM from a manufacturer that won't reshell their product for others (nothing unusual), and other companies won't reshell either because the driver would be destroyed by taking the shell apart, and they can't get another driver.
There are people that buy CIEMs and they love them and wish they would have done so sooner while others have a bad experience, whether it is due to fit or they just don't like the sound signature. Most CIEMs can be resold, although the losses can be a large percent, however with rare and expensive universal IEMs you could have a similar % loss due to lack of demand.
While people hear differently, there seem to be two basic camps...those that hear large differences moving up the price range and others that don't. The changes are to the subtleties in the music such as the soundstage space, size, and presentation (which to me is one of the most important parts of performance). Transparency, imaging, detail levels, etc. are all better in well made CIEMs. Of course, there are different sound signatures, but I do think I have a good feel for what you are looking for. You may be able to get a demo of the Rooth lineup (and I would suggest listening to the LS6) from HFi International and then you could try before you buy.
If you think you are still in a discovery process or in a little while you may change your mind, get a universal. I learned a lot moving up the price levels, but feel I still could have learned but enjoyed more and spent less overall by going for the gold from the start. Let me know if you have any questions, but you need to do what you are most comfortable with.
Quote:
What is a "good" soundstage? Is that large or very 3D, or having great proportions, or imaging well, or having exceptional instrument separation? The EX1000 has a very large soundstage from a width perspective, but lacks in other areas compared with many of my CIEMs. The depth of the soundstage isn't bad, but it isn't great, the center isn't well defined, and the instrument separation isn't great, however it performs admirably for the price. It reminds me more of a $300 headphone than an IEM.
From the products I have heard from US manufacturers, the JH16 and PRM will give you a similar soundstage width, but the presentation of that soundstage is different. The SA-43 is even more spacious, but the sound signature is quite different than the EX1000, and while not a US company, it is easy to obtain in the US.
From my notes, the 8.A has more bass and less treble presence while the TG334 midrange is more forward in comparison with the rest of the spectrum. The TG334 bass sounds looser than the 8.A and the 8.A outperforms the TG334 from all the technical characteristics I rate.
Quote:
I would say the LS3 or LCM-5 are probably a bit better for your needs than the AM4 pro for your needs and sound preferences as the AM4 pro shines with an amp, but the treble quality goes down without. Of course the LS3 and LCM-5 are at very different price points, but the LCM-5 seems to me to be the closest fit. The NT-6 was mentioned, but I didn't list that due in large part to the price, but it is very precise and detailed, one of the most detailed CIEMs I have heard.
Should you stick with universals or make the jump to customs? Haonan put forth a certain point of view which has some valid points, and the mention of music_4321, who is very opinionated on the subject, and without getting into too much detail, owns one CIEM and made blanket statements based off his limited experience with CIEMs and pulled quotes from everyone that had a bad experience with a CIEM.
My take is this: CIEMs may or may not cost you more in the long run, but it all depends. I have heard the K3003, TG334, and PFE 232 among high cost universals and to my ears, similarly priced CIEMs outperform the universals. The risk comes in if you buy something and don't like it and then want to sell it. I do know people that own CIEMs they don't use. For example, one of the people I know has a CIEM from a manufacturer that won't reshell their product for others (nothing unusual), and other companies won't reshell either because the driver would be destroyed by taking the shell apart, and they can't get another driver.
There are people that buy CIEMs and they love them and wish they would have done so sooner while others have a bad experience, whether it is due to fit or they just don't like the sound signature. Most CIEMs can be resold, although the losses can be a large percent, however with rare and expensive universal IEMs you could have a similar % loss due to lack of demand.
While people hear differently, there seem to be two basic camps...those that hear large differences moving up the price range and others that don't. The changes are to the subtleties in the music such as the soundstage space, size, and presentation (which to me is one of the most important parts of performance). Transparency, imaging, detail levels, etc. are all better in well made CIEMs. Of course, there are different sound signatures, but I do think I have a good feel for what you are looking for. You may be able to get a demo of the Rooth lineup (and I would suggest listening to the LS6) from HFi International and then you could try before you buy.
If you think you are still in a discovery process or in a little while you may change your mind, get a universal. I learned a lot moving up the price levels, but feel I still could have learned but enjoyed more and spent less overall by going for the gold from the start. Let me know if you have any questions, but you need to do what you are most comfortable with.
Quote:
What is a "good" soundstage? Is that large or very 3D, or having great proportions, or imaging well, or having exceptional instrument separation? The EX1000 has a very large soundstage from a width perspective, but lacks in other areas compared with many of my CIEMs. The depth of the soundstage isn't bad, but it isn't great, the center isn't well defined, and the instrument separation isn't great, however it performs admirably for the price. It reminds me more of a $300 headphone than an IEM.
From the products I have heard from US manufacturers, the JH16 and PRM will give you a similar soundstage width, but the presentation of that soundstage is different. The SA-43 is even more spacious, but the sound signature is quite different than the EX1000, and while not a US company, it is easy to obtain in the US.
putente
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Love Music
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@average_joe : Thank you for your thoughts/suggestions. It really helped alot. I will do some more research before I make my final decision.
I want to know is this site legit because I can get demos from them? http://www.theheadphonecompany.co.uk/index.php?id=home&menu=manufacturers
I want to know is this site legit because I can get demos from them? http://www.theheadphonecompany.co.uk/index.php?id=home&menu=manufacturers
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Quote:
YES, that site is legit. Absolutely yes.
They are currently UM's UK distributor
YES, that site is legit. Absolutely yes.
They are currently UM's UK distributor
average_joe
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Quote:
Just a quick thought on demos...not all are equal. I have experienced some good and some bad demos. Ultimate Ears makes the best sounding demos, at least for the UERM and PRM, the Rooth demos are good, and Sensaphonics may make good ones as their 2MAX sounded quite good, but their 3MAX was very warm and didn't sound as natural, but I don't own a Sensaphonics product, so I can't say for sure. The Unique Melody demos I have heard were horrid as a Miracle made for someone else's ears sounded vastly superior to the demo Miracle. JHA demos I have heard also don't represent the real thing. I have also heard about issues with other demos such as ACS. I can't even say the sound signature is the same because the bass was vastly different and there were also significant differences in the treble, and the owner verified the differences. There are people that have heard both the Heir 4.A and 4.Ai and reported vastly different sound.
So, be careful with demos as many may not be true representatives of the real thing. If you heard the demo Miracle I heard, I am sure you would probably prefer the CK10 over that demo! I know that doesn't help with the thought of finding out how a CIEM will perform in general and the reason I suggested Rooth since I am confident they sound close enough to the real thing to make an informed decision.
Just a quick thought on demos...not all are equal. I have experienced some good and some bad demos. Ultimate Ears makes the best sounding demos, at least for the UERM and PRM, the Rooth demos are good, and Sensaphonics may make good ones as their 2MAX sounded quite good, but their 3MAX was very warm and didn't sound as natural, but I don't own a Sensaphonics product, so I can't say for sure. The Unique Melody demos I have heard were horrid as a Miracle made for someone else's ears sounded vastly superior to the demo Miracle. JHA demos I have heard also don't represent the real thing. I have also heard about issues with other demos such as ACS. I can't even say the sound signature is the same because the bass was vastly different and there were also significant differences in the treble, and the owner verified the differences. There are people that have heard both the Heir 4.A and 4.Ai and reported vastly different sound.
So, be careful with demos as many may not be true representatives of the real thing. If you heard the demo Miracle I heard, I am sure you would probably prefer the CK10 over that demo! I know that doesn't help with the thought of finding out how a CIEM will perform in general and the reason I suggested Rooth since I am confident they sound close enough to the real thing to make an informed decision.
Love Music
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Quote:
Cool. Thanks.
@average _joe : Thanks. The website that I had posted seems to sell the Rooth customs, so I will ask them if I could get a demo off them. Previously I have tried the UM Miracles and I have to say that they sounded awful and they were extremely big. It's hard to imagine if anyone could actually fit into them.
Cool. Thanks.
@average _joe : Thanks. The website that I had posted seems to sell the Rooth customs, so I will ask them if I could get a demo off them. Previously I have tried the UM Miracles and I have to say that they sounded awful and they were extremely big. It's hard to imagine if anyone could actually fit into them.
snappyaxolotl
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He tried ljokerl's custom Miracles, and he is saying they sounded far better than the universal demo Miracles.
Wait, there are PRM demos? Sign me up!
He tried ljokerl's custom Miracles, and he is saying they sounded far better than the universal demo Miracles.
Wait, there are PRM demos? Sign me up!
noxa
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Yeah you don't have to worry about them, i've actually been to there premises to demo some 1964 ears, paul there is really helpful aswell.
Yeah you don't have to worry about them, i've actually been to there premises to demo some 1964 ears, paul there is really helpful aswell.
average_joe
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Quote:
Mython was asking about the demos Love Music said he heard.
Quote:
The tuning box uses demo units. Of course, there are differences as stated in my PRM review, but not to the extent of some other CIEMs.
Mython was asking about the demos Love Music said he heard.
Quote:
The tuning box uses demo units. Of course, there are differences as stated in my PRM review, but not to the extent of some other CIEMs.
snappyaxolotl
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How do the demo units compare vs a full custom JH16 Pro? Also, does the demo unit work well with lower end sources?
Also, how does the ToGo! 334 compare against the LS8 and JH16Pro if you can remember?
Thanks!
How do the demo units compare vs a full custom JH16 Pro? Also, does the demo unit work well with lower end sources?
Also, how does the ToGo! 334 compare against the LS8 and JH16Pro if you can remember?
Thanks!
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