[abvolt]

Does anyone know how the X sabre compares to the wyred dac 1, really would like to get a new dac just which one thanks if anyone knows.. 
 
I'm  going with the x sabre too many good reviews..

 

[Danny86]

  Does anyone know how the X sabre compares to the wyred dac 1, really would like to get a new dac just which one thanks if anyone knows.. 
 
I'm  going with the x sabre too many good reviews..

For the same street price I bought the Nad M51, which is much more musical than all Sabre Chips (except Auralic Vega and other esoteric options). Coupled with a good USB > SPDIF interface it also gains great resolution without losing musicality (I have the Yellowtec Puc 2 Lite). Also is easier to resell due to raving reviews. 

 

[abvolt]

I was reading this thread -->http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-i-hate-chocolate-ice-cream
and according purrin the x sabre is on or above the same level as the Nad M51 and about 800 less in cost.  What I'm looking for is a good balanced dac for my soon to be purchased WA22..

 

[Danny86]

  I was reading this thread -->http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-i-hate-chocolate-ice-cream
and according purrin the x sabre is on or above the same level as the Nad M51 and about 800 less in cost.  What I'm looking for is a good balanced dac for my soon to be purchased WA22..

I did the same mistake and bought the X-Sabre based on similar posts. To me that is total BS as I had both the M51 and the X-sabre simultaneously and even on the USB there is no contest, the nad is warm and euphonic with great resolution ("tubey") while the X-sabre is neutral at most and analytic("Sabre sound"). The NAD pushes vocals forward while the X-sabre highlights the ambient. The NAD scales very well with a good power chord and the XLR out is not so hot (around 6V for the X-sabre). The NAD also has a pre if you care about it.  
 
With AES/EBU input the M51 completely blows away the X-sabre, it's not even a fair comparison. Puc 2 Lite is 360 EUR. 
 
Street prices on M51 and X-Sabre are very similar btw. 
The NAD keeps its price very well, on the X-Sabre you will lose a lot of money on the resell. 

 

[project86]

  For the same street price I bought the Nad M51, which is much more musical than all Sabre Chips (except Auralic Vega and other esoteric options). Coupled with a good USB > SPDIF interface it also gains great resolution without losing musicality (I have the Yellowtec Puc 2 Lite). Also is easier to resell due to raving reviews. 

 
 
So all Sabre-based DACs sound the same, with the exception of a few expensive models? Interesting. Does that same logic apply to all DACs based around a Wolfson chip? What about Texas Instruments? Cirrus Logic? 
 
I would have thought, as usual, it comes down to many other factors: power supply, digital receiver, output stage, system clock, and of course implementation of whatever chip is used. But it's sure easier to lump everything together isn't it?
 
 

  I did the same mistake and bought the X-Sabre based on similar posts. To me that is total BS as I had both the M51 and the X-sabre simultaneously and even on the USB there is no contest, the nad is warm and euphonic with great resolution ("tubey") while the X-sabre is neutral at most and analytic("Sabre sound"). The NAD pushes vocals forward while the X-sabre highlights the ambient. The NAD scales very well with a good power chord and the XLR out is not so hot (around 6V for the X-sabre). The NAD also has a pre if you care about it.  
 
With AES/EBU input the M51 completely blows away the X-sabre, it's not even a fair comparison. Puc 2 Lite is 360 EUR. 
 
Street prices on M51 and X-Sabre are very similar btw. 
The NAD keeps its price very well, on the X-Sabre you will lose a lot of money on the resell. 

 
Look, it's totally fine that you prefer the NAD to the X-Sabre. I like the NAD too - it's a very nice DAC. But to say this is all caused by the Sabre chip is just flat out wrong. You can take the X-Sabre, Yulong D18, Anedio D2, Audiolab M DAC, and Eastern Electric MiniMax - all of which use the exact same ES9018 chip - and hear a completely different sound from each one. There will most certainly be one in that group you love, and one you hate, with the rest falling somewhere in between.
 
I don't understand your point on value either. The NAD has an MSRP of $1,999. The Matrix is $1,099. If a used M51 goes for similar pricing as a new X-Sabre, how is that considered keeping its price very well? You can't have it both ways.
 
Again, the M51 is an excellent DAC. Worthy of consideration for sure. But so is the X-Sabre. Buy the one that sounds best to you and has the features you want. 

 

[Cupidonet1968]

A friend borrowed me his X-Sabre, so I am listening to it along with my other Dac, the NuWaveDac. I noticed that all your listening tests were made with the USB input. I use an old Musical Fidelity X-Ray CD Player as a transport, and have only a very basic laptop PC USB setup (Foobar2000 and Lindy USB cable). I connected the MF X-Ray to the coax input and noticed almost immediately the "glare" described in the review. The "glare" affects mostly nylon-stringed guitars, in my opinion. I tried other coax cables, but that did not solve my problem. Then I switched to USB and listened to the same records, ripped with EAC. The glare had disappeared, the nylon-stringed guitars sang in all their glory, but unfortunately I couldn't get a decent soundstage. By the way, I generally listen through my loudspeakers (ProAc Studio 100 through Nuforce amplification). My guess is that the "glare" might have something to do with the lack of a DIR stage. I don't have an Aes/Ebu equipped transport, so I wanted to ask if the "glare" is there also using the Aes/Ebu input. And also, is that normal that I got such a small soundstage? Maybe I should try with another USB cable? I used both the ASIO and the WASAPI modes.
By the way, I tried the NuWave Dac through the USB input, and found it, well, lackluster, despite the XMOS chip. The Spdif input really shines, though.
 
Thanks, Stefano from Italy

 

[Danny86]

  A friend borrowed me his X-Sabre, so I am listening to it along with my other Dac, the NuWaveDac. I noticed that all your listening tests were made with the USB input. I use an old Musical Fidelity X-Ray CD Player as a transport, and have only a very basic laptop PC USB setup (Foobar2000 and Lindy USB cable). I connected the MF X-Ray to the coax input and noticed almost immediately the "glare" described in the review. The "glare" affects mostly nylon-stringed guitars, in my opinion. I tried other coax cables, but that did not solve my problem. Then I switched to USB and listened to the same records, ripped with EAC. The glare had disappeared, the nylon-stringed guitars sang in all their glory, but unfortunately I couldn't get a decent soundstage. By the way, I generally listen through my loudspeakers (ProAc Studio 100 through Nuforce amplification). My guess is that the "glare" might have something to do with the lack of a DIR stage. I don't have an Aes/Ebu equipped transport, so I wanted to ask if the "glare" is there also using the Aes/Ebu input. And also, is that normal that I got such a small soundstage? Maybe I should try with another USB cable? I used both the ASIO and the WASAPI modes.
By the way, I tried the NuWave Dac through the USB input, and found it, well, lackluster, despite the XMOS chip. The Spdif input really shines, though.
 
Thanks, Stefano from Italy

The X-Sabre sounded better through AES/EBU in my system (you lose DSD though... ). The difference is not as striking as on the M51 which has a mediocre USB implementation, as others already mentioned. Could also be a problem of the transport or the AES/EBU cable used ? From experience AES/EBU is very sensitive to cable quality (I have DH Labs D110 currently, works great).
 
I had the Nuwave in the past, I would take the X-Sabre over the Nuwave any day. No contest.
 

   
 
So all Sabre-based DACs sound the same, with the exception of a few expensive models? Interesting. Does that same logic apply to all DACs based around a Wolfson chip? What about Texas Instruments? Cirrus Logic? 
 
I would have thought, as usual, it comes down to many other factors: power supply, digital receiver, output stage, system clock, and of course implementation of whatever chip is used. But it's sure easier to lump everything together isn't it?
 
 
 
Look, it's totally fine that you prefer the NAD to the X-Sabre. I like the NAD too - it's a very nice DAC. But to say this is all caused by the Sabre chip is just flat out wrong. You can take the X-Sabre, Yulong D18, Anedio D2, Audiolab M DAC, and Eastern Electric MiniMax - all of which use the exact same ES9018 chip - and hear a completely different sound from each one. There will most certainly be one in that group you love, and one you hate, with the rest falling somewhere in between.
 
I don't understand your point on value either. The NAD has an MSRP of $1,999. The Matrix is $1,099. If a used M51 goes for similar pricing as a new X-Sabre, how is that considered keeping its price very well? You can't have it both ways.
 
Again, the M51 is an excellent DAC. Worthy of consideration for sure. But so is the X-Sabre. Buy the one that sounds best to you and has the features you want. 

 
In my country there is a 300 EUR difference between the two, and the NAD is usually discounted below the X-sabre street price, perhaps now it makes more sense ?
 
I know not all Sabre sounds the same, but only the super expensive models I've heard sound musical while also retaining their super high resolution (Auralic Vega, Accuphase DC901, etc.) The reason why (most of) those are expensive relies in the implementation, as you mentioned. The cheap ones create the stereotype which I associated to Sabre and unfortunately the X-Sabre is one of them. 

 

[amigastar]

Honestly i've been reading this thread by Purrin and was a little bit surprised by some of the statements like on the Resonessence Invicta:

 Despite the voicing of this DAC to provide a fuller bodied sound, the SABRE treble is still there in the form of stridency. (You can't fool us!)

and
 

 Complex passages sound congested and muddy. Some could say in the attempt to tame the SABRE-esque qualities of the DAC, it crushes the soul of your music.

Now i haven't heard the Invicta personally but by this description it seems to be a fail what surprises me because i've read other things about it.
I even enjoy the Audinst Hud MX1 and this one costs about 170 bucks so i can't figure it out entirely what he means.

 

[Cupidonet1968]

The X-Sabre does many things better than the NuWave, but I think that I did not hear yet its full potential, due to the "glare" in the coax input. I was also wondering if the Resonessence Concero HD has a proper digital receiver stage, and if its coax input sounds better than the coax on the X-Sabre with a stock CD transport.
 
Thanks, Stefano

 

[Gibalok]

Should I invest into good AES/EBU cable instead of COAX to connect Gustard U12 to matrix X-Sabre?
Im using  Stealth Audio S/PDIF
 

 

[project86]

  A friend borrowed me his X-Sabre, so I am listening to it along with my other Dac, the NuWaveDac. I noticed that all your listening tests were made with the USB input. I use an old Musical Fidelity X-Ray CD Player as a transport, and have only a very basic laptop PC USB setup (Foobar2000 and Lindy USB cable). I connected the MF X-Ray to the coax input and noticed almost immediately the "glare" described in the review. The "glare" affects mostly nylon-stringed guitars, in my opinion. I tried other coax cables, but that did not solve my problem. Then I switched to USB and listened to the same records, ripped with EAC. The glare had disappeared, the nylon-stringed guitars sang in all their glory, but unfortunately I couldn't get a decent soundstage. By the way, I generally listen through my loudspeakers (ProAc Studio 100 through Nuforce amplification). My guess is that the "glare" might have something to do with the lack of a DIR stage. I don't have an Aes/Ebu equipped transport, so I wanted to ask if the "glare" is there also using the Aes/Ebu input. And also, is that normal that I got such a small soundstage? Maybe I should try with another USB cable? I used both the ASIO and the WASAPI modes.
By the way, I tried the NuWave Dac through the USB input, and found it, well, lackluster, despite the XMOS chip. The Spdif input really shines, though.
 
Thanks, Stefano from Italy

 
 
I do often hear more glare with coax input, though it can be reduced or even eliminated by using higher end transports. The YBA Design WM202 that I use now is a little better than the Cambridge 740C I was using prior. Good enough to sound enjoyable, generally speaking, where the Cambridge as transport was not something I would want to live with long term. 
 
Not sure what you mean about lack of DIR stage. The ES9018 has it built in, just as it has its own ASRC (of sorts) also integrated into the chip. So there is a DIR, just not an external chip as we are sometimes accustomed to seeing. I don't think that's necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, and we'll never know what might have happened if Matrix chose some other way of doing it. It might not matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. 
 
 

  The X-Sabre sounded better through AES/EBU in my system (you lose DSD though... ). The difference is not as striking as on the M51 which has a mediocre USB implementation, as others already mentioned. Could also be a problem of the transport or the AES/EBU cable used ? From experience AES/EBU is very sensitive to cable quality (I have DH Labs D110 currently, works great).
 
I had the Nuwave in the past, I would take the X-Sabre over the Nuwave any day. No contest.
 
 
In my country there is a 300 EUR difference between the two, and the NAD is usually discounted below the X-sabre street price, perhaps now it makes more sense ?
 
I know not all Sabre sounds the same, but only the super expensive models I've heard sound musical while also retaining their super high resolution (Auralic Vega, Accuphase DC901, etc.) The reason why (most of) those are expensive relies in the implementation, as you mentioned. The cheap ones create the stereotype which I associated to Sabre and unfortunately the X-Sabre is one of them. 

 
 
I guess I still don't see (or hear) the "Sabre" sound in "the cheap ones". X-Sabre, DA8, MiniMax, Anedio, M DAC, etc, all sound different to me, with very little in common. But I wouldn't necessarily call them "cheap" either - yes, cheaper than a Vega, but still fairly expensive.
 
The only time I hear something of a similarity is with the truly cheap devices using the entry-level Sabre chips. Such as the ES9023 used by a bunch of cheap eBay DACs. That chip pretty much does everything onboard so there is very little room for individualization - no separate output stage or ASRC or DIR required, and very simple power supply needs. So as long as you don't make mistakes in the design or build, they should mostly sound the same. That said, Cary uses two of them in their DAC-100, and it sounds very different.... as does their older Audio Electronics Lightning which used a single ES9023. So again, there's always room for variation.  
 
 

  Honestly i've been reading this thread by Purrin and was a little bit surprised by some of the statements like on the Resonessence Invicta:
and
 
Now i haven't heard the Invicta personally but by this description it seems to be a fail what surprises me because i've read other things about it.
I even enjoy the Audinst Hud MX1 and this one costs about 170 bucks so i can't figure it out entirely what he means.

 
 
I like Purrin and enjoy his thoughts on stuff, but he hears the Invicta VERY differently than me or anyone else I know. Nothing wrong with that, of course. 
 
 

  The X-Sabre does many things better than the NuWave, but I think that I did not hear yet its full potential, due to the "glare" in the coax input. I was also wondering if the Resonessence Concero HD has a proper digital receiver stage, and if its coax input sounds better than the coax on the X-Sabre with a stock CD transport.
 
Thanks, Stefano

 
 
Again, not sure what you mean by proper DIR. I believe Concero HD uses the built in DIR on the ES9018K2M and it sounds pretty similar between USB and a good transport with coax. 

 

[Cupidonet1968]

Not sure what you mean about lack of DIR stage. The ES9018 has it built in, just as it has its own ASRC (of sorts) also integrated into the chip. So there is a DIR, just not an external chip as we are sometimes accustomed to seeing. I don't think that's necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, and we'll never know what might have happened if Matrix chose some other way of doing it. It might not matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. 

 
Thanks for your answer. What I meant by "proper DIR stage" is that most transports are not perfectly accurate, and so a "proper DIR stage" can include a reclocking stage in order to reduce jitter, or a coax input stage that does not require a dead-on 75 Ohm output impedence on the transport side. I understand that the X-Sabre is more choosy about the transport than other DACs (while my NuWave sounded good even with a Cambridge Azur 651c used as a transport). That's why I asked if the Aes/Ebu connection was better than the coax, since USB is not my primary connection of choice.
 
Stefano

 

[conquerator2]

I was looking at the Gustard X12. The little impressions I have read say it sounds close to the DA8. While still not cheap, the price difference is there and I might give it a try

 

[amalgamist]

Any idea if there is going to be a new matrix dac released that will replace the x-sabre ? 

 

[abvolt]

That's a good deal and I haven't read about any new flagship from matrix.