wormsdriver
Headphoneus Supremus
In the meantime, I'll be sticking them in an all aluminium cups/sleeves enclosure probably by tomorrow night. I'll report back when I give em a listen!
Grado modders go Magnum
Arty McGhee
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already done
these sound great much better than the v5 i sold to make these
waiting for the 3d file from rhydon, you can upload the file
to shapeways.com and they will print it for around $20
joeq70
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Yeah, I'm all in on the 3D cups because...why not?
fleasbaby
Member of the Trade: Wabi Sabi Headphones
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Man! People have theirs already! Mine are still en-route...*SIGH* For some weird reason the tracking says they departed Chicago on the 16th. I haven't seen them yet though, and I am in So-Cal. Wonder what the hold up is?
Quote:
Pictures, or it didn't happen...
Nicely done...
Anyone else notice that Shapeways does stainless steel 3D printing now as well? As soon as I read the note about the 3D cups I thought about the endless experimenting with material types that would ensue.
Quote:
Pictures, or it didn't happen...
already done
these sound great much better than the v5 i sold to make these
waiting for the 3d file from rhydon, you can upload the file
to shapeways.com and they will print it for around $20
Nicely done...
Anyone else notice that Shapeways does stainless steel 3D printing now as well? As soon as I read the note about the 3D cups I thought about the endless experimenting with material types that would ensue.
Alcaudon
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Guys,
Anyone here has any contact with Martin from Martin Custom Audio? I'm looking for a set of his fantastic aluminium gimbals/rodblocks for a build I have in mind (with V6 drivers), but he is not replying to my emails. I know he posted a message explaining that he is quite busy right now and that he might need to take a break. I'm not in a hurry and I don't want to disturb him, I just wanted to know if there's any chance to still get the gimbals or if I should start looking elsewhere. If he is still there, I can wait until he is available again.
Many thanks for your help!!!
Anyone here has any contact with Martin from Martin Custom Audio? I'm looking for a set of his fantastic aluminium gimbals/rodblocks for a build I have in mind (with V6 drivers), but he is not replying to my emails. I know he posted a message explaining that he is quite busy right now and that he might need to take a break. I'm not in a hurry and I don't want to disturb him, I just wanted to know if there's any chance to still get the gimbals or if I should start looking elsewhere. If he is still there, I can wait until he is available again.
Many thanks for your help!!!
wormsdriver
Headphoneus Supremus
The drivers are not properly seated yet. They seem to be smaller than the Grado drivers (like the V4 Magnums). I had very little time to put them together, so I just used some scotch tape that I happened to have right in front of me at the time and used the tape to temporarily hold the drivers in place. Anyhow, With very limited listening and out of my cell phone at that, no burn in, and according to Ryhdon, they might still need a week for some of the coating to dry (after removing the sticker covers), these things are VERY special.
Excellent bass response when called for, very nice imaging, lots and lots of details, vocals sound beautiful...
I can't wait to hear them evolve and also hear them out of my desktop gear.
So far, so good, I'd say these are excellent, hell they sound down right exquisite!
[COLOR=FF00AA]EDIT: The Magnum drivers are the same size of Grado drivers, my mistake!
[/COLOR]
Excellent bass response when called for, very nice imaging, lots and lots of details, vocals sound beautiful...
I can't wait to hear them evolve and also hear them out of my desktop gear.
So far, so good, I'd say these are excellent, hell they sound down right exquisite!
[COLOR=FF00AA]EDIT: The Magnum drivers are the same size of Grado drivers, my mistake!
[/COLOR]
Alcaudon
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Thanks Headcan!
Actually, I already knew about Gamja Labs, and their stuff sure seems great, but honestly I was looking for something a little bit more "professional" if you know what I mean. If I can't get my hands on a pair of Martin's gimbals then I might end up using my own diy ones (actually, I have a pair that I made for a SR-60 mod I did a while ago).
Anyway, many thanks for your help.
Arty McGhee
500+ Head-Fier
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The drivers are not properly seated yet. They seem to be smaller than the Grado drivers (like the V4 Magnums). I had very little time to put them together, so I just used some scotch tape that I happened to have right in front of me at the time and used the tape to temporarily hold the drivers in place. Anyhow, With very limited listening and out of my cell phone at that, no burn in, and according to Ryhdon, they might still need a week for some of the coating to dry (after removing the sticker covers), these things are VERY special.
Excellent bass response when called for, very nice imaging, lots and lots of details, vocals sound beautiful...
I can't wait to hear them evolve and also hear them out of my desktop gear.
So far, so good, I'd say these are excellent, hell they sound down right exquisite!
nice build, like the jmoney headband
working with a local cobbler to make a leather headband... not lookin good
i agree with you on the sound
wormsdriver
Headphoneus Supremus
Ah, forgot to mention, these are very transparent also! ...and no, not just looks either! 
joeq70
1000+ Head-Fier
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Okay, so I just got my bowl pads in the mail. Wow, I was mistaken about them. Now that I tried them out on my home system, not the sterile DAC at the hifi store...Big difference. Very refined sounding. Huge upgrade over the flats.
jerrikko
Head-Fier
Ola Head-fi,
Some time reader, long time lurker (in anon mode), first post. This has been an excellent thread. Thank you all for your enlightening contributions. Had a multi part question, with any luck some veterans could possibly shed some light. Thank you in advance for letting me pick your brain. Might have originally posted in sr60 modding thread if it wasn't closed down.
Currently, have an near virgin (linen face removed) sr60 & a heavily modded (semi-liberated driver, vented, dynamatted) sr80i. Both with quarter modded comfies (uggh). Ready to take the next step. Looking at cups for each with possibilities of full length cocobolo, full length mahogany & aluminum. When these two are built out, will be experimenting with Magnum drivers (up to V.6 now?). Hence my question: What cups would people recommend for SQ between the coco & mahog (or alu) & for which (sr60 vs sr80i), given down the road will be transferring the best suited to house the Magnum drivers (with alu air chamber). Will be doing detachable cables into whichever cups get used. Apologies if this is poorly & or badly described. Listen to very wide range of music & media, not a bass head but like it assertive & well controlled, strongly in camp anti-sibiliant, will be using either senn 414 or bowl pads.
ps I understand I may have to use slip-ons instead of full length cups in order to keep the alu air chambers rhydon eq'd his drivers to. would still have to choose between mahogany & cocobolo (or aluminum) & would appreciate material advice.
Some time reader, long time lurker (in anon mode), first post. This has been an excellent thread. Thank you all for your enlightening contributions. Had a multi part question, with any luck some veterans could possibly shed some light. Thank you in advance for letting me pick your brain. Might have originally posted in sr60 modding thread if it wasn't closed down.
Currently, have an near virgin (linen face removed) sr60 & a heavily modded (semi-liberated driver, vented, dynamatted) sr80i. Both with quarter modded comfies (uggh). Ready to take the next step. Looking at cups for each with possibilities of full length cocobolo, full length mahogany & aluminum. When these two are built out, will be experimenting with Magnum drivers (up to V.6 now?). Hence my question: What cups would people recommend for SQ between the coco & mahog (or alu) & for which (sr60 vs sr80i), given down the road will be transferring the best suited to house the Magnum drivers (with alu air chamber). Will be doing detachable cables into whichever cups get used. Apologies if this is poorly & or badly described. Listen to very wide range of music & media, not a bass head but like it assertive & well controlled, strongly in camp anti-sibiliant, will be using either senn 414 or bowl pads.
ps I understand I may have to use slip-ons instead of full length cups in order to keep the alu air chambers rhydon eq'd his drivers to. would still have to choose between mahogany & cocobolo (or aluminum) & would appreciate material advice.
Synesis
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Ola, jerrikko. Welcome. I have just joined as well, and found this to be a very open and constructive community.
As detailed post 3452, I am on a similar path as you with my headphone project. I come to headphones from background in studying speaker design. My brother-in-law builds guitars so we have had lengthy conversations regarding the interaction of wood with sound. I also have frequent discussions with a good friend regarding interaction of frequencies in all things, even down to a molecular or quantum level. All physical structures have a fundamental resonant frequency, and exhibit harmonic resonances as well. Whether we are able to accurately capture and quantify this phenomenon is another issue; but many times these interactions are readily observable by those with sensitivity (innate and/or learned) to such things. A design which preserves harmonics is key to perceived realism, as well as to the presentation of an accurate soundstage and image.
The driver will inevitably interact with the structure it is mounted within, by virtue of its own physical structure coupling with that of its mounting structure, and also as a function of reflected acoustic energy. In the selection of mounting cups, at least three basic approaches are taken.
One is to embrace the acoustic properties inherent in the material and try to synergistically combine those characteristics with those of the driver. Wood drivers are great for this since we know a lot about wood's characteristics, in many cases from use in musical instruments. Wood is complex in that it can actually enhance certain frequencies, while damping others, as a function of its density and structure. To some degree you can get an idea of how a wood will contribute to the sound signature by just tapping on the wood and noting the frequency range at which it resonates. Very generally, the denser the wood (or other material for that matter), the higher the fundamental resonance and its harmonics. Mahogany for instance is a relatively softer wood, and its use in stringed instruments tends to bring out nuanced midrange frequencies and its harmonics. Cocobolo is used in manufacture of clarinets and piccolos, is a more dense wood, so its resonance is higher in the frequency spectrum. So my expectation is that this wood would influence the upper midrange and lower treble spectrums. Aluminum has an even higher resonant frequency and can influence the treble frequencies. Consider for instance that the SR325 uses an aluminum cup, and is considered by many to sound bright.
Another approach is to focus development on the driver itself, and try to eliminate or mitigate the acoustic effects of the structure in which it is mounted. In other words, to make it acoustically inert. This can be done by selection of a mounting cup which is either inherently non-resonant, or which damps or absorbs acoustic energy in some way. In some cases materials can be selected where the fundament resonant frequency is high enough to be out of the audible passband, and therefore has minimal influence on the sound signature. In other cases the structure itself can be designed to minimize resonance. Both the structural resonance of the combined driver/mounting assembly is of consideration, while at the same time reflected acoustic energy generated by the driver must be managed. You can see the effect of structure itself, especially on reflected energy for example, in the various length cups that are used. Rhydon is working on a design which can be manufactured by a 3D printer, and its emphasis (based on my email exchange with him) will be toward being as acoustically inert as possible. As manufacturer of the drivers, and designer of the cup, he is in a unique position to synergistically manage the characteristics of the combined structure. The 3D printing approach offers opportunity to quickly and affordably incorporate tweaks to the structural design, and also the opportunity to see how influential selection of the material used to make the cup can be in how it affects the end result.
Yet another approach is use of various material to damp particular sonic characteristics, be they structural resonance or reflected energy, by the use of acoustically absorbent materials. This is commonly done for example by the application of Dynamat, cork, or felt, to the rear of the driver magnet or button on the grille; application of felt or foam to the interior of the cup; insertion of a wood liner in a metal cup; etc. Use of these materials and techniques can work to enhance the approach of making the structure as acoustically inert as possible. Or, or can be used to further tune and tweak the acoustic signature of designs that are resonant in some way toward the signature preferred by the listener. Changing or modifying pads alters the amount the foam attenuates high frequencies, as well as changing the placement of the driver in relationship to the ear canal, yet another very individual structure to be considered in the whole.
Juggling these variables according to individual preference, and learning about them is why folks enjoy modding so much.
I plan to order a mahogany cup, a cocobolo cup, and one of the 3D cups to explore these influences. I also plan to order a set of MS1 headphones, and either a second set of V6's or a set of SR225's to see which cups work the best with each.
Good luck with your design!
As detailed post 3452, I am on a similar path as you with my headphone project. I come to headphones from background in studying speaker design. My brother-in-law builds guitars so we have had lengthy conversations regarding the interaction of wood with sound. I also have frequent discussions with a good friend regarding interaction of frequencies in all things, even down to a molecular or quantum level. All physical structures have a fundamental resonant frequency, and exhibit harmonic resonances as well. Whether we are able to accurately capture and quantify this phenomenon is another issue; but many times these interactions are readily observable by those with sensitivity (innate and/or learned) to such things. A design which preserves harmonics is key to perceived realism, as well as to the presentation of an accurate soundstage and image.
The driver will inevitably interact with the structure it is mounted within, by virtue of its own physical structure coupling with that of its mounting structure, and also as a function of reflected acoustic energy. In the selection of mounting cups, at least three basic approaches are taken.
One is to embrace the acoustic properties inherent in the material and try to synergistically combine those characteristics with those of the driver. Wood drivers are great for this since we know a lot about wood's characteristics, in many cases from use in musical instruments. Wood is complex in that it can actually enhance certain frequencies, while damping others, as a function of its density and structure. To some degree you can get an idea of how a wood will contribute to the sound signature by just tapping on the wood and noting the frequency range at which it resonates. Very generally, the denser the wood (or other material for that matter), the higher the fundamental resonance and its harmonics. Mahogany for instance is a relatively softer wood, and its use in stringed instruments tends to bring out nuanced midrange frequencies and its harmonics. Cocobolo is used in manufacture of clarinets and piccolos, is a more dense wood, so its resonance is higher in the frequency spectrum. So my expectation is that this wood would influence the upper midrange and lower treble spectrums. Aluminum has an even higher resonant frequency and can influence the treble frequencies. Consider for instance that the SR325 uses an aluminum cup, and is considered by many to sound bright.
Another approach is to focus development on the driver itself, and try to eliminate or mitigate the acoustic effects of the structure in which it is mounted. In other words, to make it acoustically inert. This can be done by selection of a mounting cup which is either inherently non-resonant, or which damps or absorbs acoustic energy in some way. In some cases materials can be selected where the fundament resonant frequency is high enough to be out of the audible passband, and therefore has minimal influence on the sound signature. In other cases the structure itself can be designed to minimize resonance. Both the structural resonance of the combined driver/mounting assembly is of consideration, while at the same time reflected acoustic energy generated by the driver must be managed. You can see the effect of structure itself, especially on reflected energy for example, in the various length cups that are used. Rhydon is working on a design which can be manufactured by a 3D printer, and its emphasis (based on my email exchange with him) will be toward being as acoustically inert as possible. As manufacturer of the drivers, and designer of the cup, he is in a unique position to synergistically manage the characteristics of the combined structure. The 3D printing approach offers opportunity to quickly and affordably incorporate tweaks to the structural design, and also the opportunity to see how influential selection of the material used to make the cup can be in how it affects the end result.
Yet another approach is use of various material to damp particular sonic characteristics, be they structural resonance or reflected energy, by the use of acoustically absorbent materials. This is commonly done for example by the application of Dynamat, cork, or felt, to the rear of the driver magnet or button on the grille; application of felt or foam to the interior of the cup; insertion of a wood liner in a metal cup; etc. Use of these materials and techniques can work to enhance the approach of making the structure as acoustically inert as possible. Or, or can be used to further tune and tweak the acoustic signature of designs that are resonant in some way toward the signature preferred by the listener. Changing or modifying pads alters the amount the foam attenuates high frequencies, as well as changing the placement of the driver in relationship to the ear canal, yet another very individual structure to be considered in the whole.
Juggling these variables according to individual preference, and learning about them is why folks enjoy modding so much.
I plan to order a mahogany cup, a cocobolo cup, and one of the 3D cups to explore these influences. I also plan to order a set of MS1 headphones, and either a second set of V6's or a set of SR225's to see which cups work the best with each.
Good luck with your design!
I don't think people agree on what is the best cup to use. Sound is subjective. A couple of years ago we put together a tour of four different North American Tone-wood cups. They were passed around to a number of members to see how they would rate each one.
The results are interesting.
Take a look.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/686212/the-great-grado-experiment-4-tonewoods-tested-more-to-come
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