Grado Fan Club!
Feb 20, 2015 at 4:47 AM Post #23,296 of 65,642
  Hey guys, here are my early impressions of the RS-2e Grados that I posted in the "e" thread for anyone interested: 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/722571/grado-e-series/3720#post_11339526

Nice! makes me miss my old Rs2 (old version w/buttons). It was the first time I fell in love with Grados. I found them so much more comfortable than the sr225 and sr125 that I had previously owned (at that time). LOVED the way the guitars sounded on them, just excellent!
 
by the way, I really like how the brown leather headband matches the wood on the new grados!
 
Feb 20, 2015 at 4:52 AM Post #23,297 of 65,642
  Nice! makes me miss my old Rs2 (old version w/buttons). It was the first time I fell in love with Grados. I found them so much more comfortable than the sr225 and sr125 that I had previously owned (at that time). LOVED the way the guitars sounded on them, just excellent!
 
by the way, I really like how the brown leather headband matches the wood on the new grados!

 
Ah okay, so maybe the RS-2 just fits better in general then...I find them more comfortable than the PS500s but wasn't sure why
 
And yeah, the brown is much sharper than I would have expected!
 
Feb 20, 2015 at 5:42 AM Post #23,298 of 65,642
  COMPARING THE SENNHEISER HD 800, THE GRADO PS1000, AND THE GRADO RS1i
 
Introduction:
 
About a year ago, I developed a set of 10 features, associated with 4 recordings, and used them in comparative listening tests of 3 headphones at a time. I performed 10 such 3-way compares, each with its own post detailing the work, and summarized in the table here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/723136/battle-of-the-bassys-beats-pro-yamaha-pro-500-and-beats-studio-2013-compared#post_10634722
 
Since then, I have acquired several top-end headphones, so I thought I would apply that same comparison method and post my results here.
 
Test Method:
 
I used four songs, all encoded in Apple Lossless Format at CD quality (I actually bought the CDs and ripped them... no internet download involved) and played by my Apple iPod Touch 5th Gen (this particular Apple player has an unusually low output impedance and unusually high quality for a portable system):
 
  • "You're Going To Miss Me When I'm Gone," by Band of Heathens, from their album One Foot In The Ether (used for fidelity of drum sound, positional resolution of two vocalists, and ability to discern pitch of string bass passages);
  • "Spanish Harlem," by Rebecca Pidgeon, on The Ultimate Demonstration Disc of Chesky records (used to assess female vocals, transparency, the attack of finger on bass string, and high resolution discrimination of differences in shaker shakes);
  • "Symphony No. 3 in C Minor Op. 78 (Organ Symphony) - IV" by Camille Saint Saens played by Charles Munch and the Boston Symphony (used to assess the "ripping" sound of well-rendered lower brass and organ reed pipes, and the ability to hear a very small entrance amidst a bombastic chord of orchestra and organ at full tilt);
  • "Throwback" by B.o.B. on Underground Luxury (used to assess ability of a bass tone, specifically lowest C on piano at about 32 Hz, to pick me up by the throat and shake me!)
 
The 10 tests were as follows:
 
  • Transparency:  What is between me and the music?  A felt cloth?  A "Sennheiser veil?" A frosted window?  Dirty window?  Clear Saran wrap?  or nothing?  At its best, makes me forget I am listening on headphones and am in room with musicians.
  • Width of sound stage:  How far to the left and to the right, (yes, AND up and down in best cases) does it seem the musical sources are arranged?
  • Positional resolution:  Can I distinguish a difference in position of two singers in Song 1?
  • Bass visceral:  Does the bass in third verse of Song 4 actually shake me? Or do I just hear it?
  • Drum "twang":  At start of Song 1, do the bass and tom tom drumhead have a tone and a pitch, rather than just a thump?
  • Bass pitch perception:  For the complicated bass runs in Song 1, do I hear a pitch with sufficient accuracy to sing or transcribe the part?
  • Bass finger pluck:  Do I hear the actual impact of fingers on the bass string just before hearing its sound on Song 2?
  • Shaker variation:  In Song 2, verse 3, do the various shaker shakes sound a bit different from each other, as they should?
  • "Ripping" of organ / brass:  In Song 3, is there the sensation of hearing each vibration of the French horn and low organ reed tones (sort of the tonal counterpart to hearing a "pitch" from a drumhead in Test 5);
  • Discern added chord:  About 1:38 into Song 3, after the full orchestra and organ hold a chord at the top of a passage, can I hear a small number of orchestra instruments join in, as sort of an echo, in the second measure of that chord?
 
These tests generally emphasize what I find most pleasing in a headphone, namely high-frequency-related features including transparency, upper harmonics of sounds from drum-head, brass, organ pipe, and string bass, and high-resolution effects such as fine detail of each shaker sound and the finger on the bass string.  Only one test (#4) appeals to my emerging "bass-head" nature -- hence bass response is under-represented in these tests.
 
For each of the 10 tests, I ranked each headphone against the other two, operating two at a time and repeating comparisons on each test and each pair until I could either rank order the three headphones as first place, second place, or third place, or determined that I could not rank two (a tie) or sometimes, all three (a three-way tie).  I assigned 3 points for first place, 2 points for second place, and 1 point for third place.  If two headphones tied for first place, I awarded each 2.5 points and gave the lowest-performing headphone 1 point, and if two headphones timed for second place, I award the top scorer 3 points and the two ties 1.5 points each, thereby preserving the fact that each total across headphones was kept at 6 points (1 + 2 + 3 = 2.5 + 2.5 + 1 = 1.5 + 1.5 + 3 = 6).  Likewise, if all tied, I awarded all 2 points (3 x 2 = 6).
 
In the comparison chart that is below, I also color-coded each headphone for each test by blue ("first prize" = 3 points), red (second prize = 2 points), or yellow (3rd prize = 1 point).  Ties for first place are shown as light purple (red + blue, 2.5 points);  ties for second place are orange (red + yellow, 1.5 points). 
 
Headphones Tested:
 
I tested the Sennheiser HD 800, driven by the Sennheiser HDVD 800 DAC/amp, the Grado PS1000, driven by the Joseph Grado Signature Products HP-1, and the Greado RS1i,driven by the Grado RA-1 amp.  Hence, each headphone is driven by an amplifier from its manufacturer, presumably well matched to its respective headphone.
 
More pictorially, here are the headphones and amps:
 


Sennheiser HD 800 headphone driven by Sennheiser HDVD 800 amp.
 

Grado PS1000s driven by Joseph Grado HPA-1 amp.
 


Grado RS-1i headphones driven by Grado RA-1 amp.
 
Results:
 
The Sennheiser HD 800 distinguished itself by its larger sound stage.  One had the impression when putting the HD 800 headphones on of poking one's head up through the stage in the center of the musical ensemble, surrounding one with music.  It was also the most comfortable of the headphones.  However, in side-by-side comparisons with the two Grados, it clearly had a less transparent sound, almost as if one were listening to the HD 800 through a speaker cloth that was removed for the two Grados.  The HD 800 had the most palpable sub bass (Test #4), though the PS 1000 and RS-1i were tied and not far behind.
 
The Grado PS1000s were significantly more transparent than the Sennheisers.  They had just as much detail and a very large sound stage, almost but not quite as large as the HD 800s.  They were comfortable, but not quite so much as the HD 800s.  However, for very low and powerful organ notes such as the first chord on the Saint-Saens Organ Symphony (song #3 above), they had an odd distortion in the low notes, almost as if the signal were clipping.  I never noticed that before, and I actually switched amps to be sure it was not an artifact of the HPA-1 amp... it wasn't.
 
The Grado RS-1is were even more transparent than the Grado PS1000s.  This helped it win out on several high-frequency-related tests, including transparency, perception of the actual pitch of a bass note, and to tie on high resolution tests with the PS 1000s.  It was the least comfortable on the ears, though also the lightest (not a scoring point in the table below) and it had the smallest sound stage.
 
(click on table to render it legible!)

 
It is most illuminating to look at each feature to compare the three headphones; however it is most tempting to add up all the scores to see which headphone came out "the best." 
 
Differences of fewer than three points are insignificant.  With the HD 800 scoring 20, the PS 1000 scoring 19, and the RS-1i scoring 21, each headphone's total score is essentially equal.  Had I chosen a different mix of 10 tests, for example put in more tests of bass power at the expense of several treble-related tests, the totals would change.  If soundstage is important to you, it should contribute more than one out of 10 criteria. So each total is just an equal weighting of the particular features that I chose as important to me, and have no significance beyond that

Great job on this review....very detailed.
 
Can not agree more with the transparency of the RS1i and the finger pluck of the Senn HD800........I love this on both of these cans.
 
Kudos for doing this.....I agree that with different music selection, the results may change....but this is still a top notch review.
 
Feb 20, 2015 at 6:17 AM Post #23,299 of 65,642
good morning out there in grado land, i feel like some hound dog taylor 

 
and, to go with our weather here in north alabama 
 
 
and if you got the time

 
Feb 20, 2015 at 7:39 AM Post #23,300 of 65,642
 
+1 ... used CDs from Amazon is my primary source of new-old-stock music.


+2-I buy most of my music from Amazon. I thought I was the last of a dying breed. Who the hell does that?!!
 
I'll also go to a local record and tape traders. I have a $10 window. If I can get something from a storefront or w/ shipping from Amazon I feel a little better buying a new CD so the artists gets paid. But, I don't lose any real sleep about it
tongue.gif

 
I posted a long post on the metal pages-basically saying I'm old school-I don't entirely trust technology. I like having a real thing-real media-I like an actual book too. I like to be able to take a CD and take it somewhere-the car, work, and play it. With Sonos there are times my Wireless drops out, a storm etc. I don't want to have to depend on my wifi for music. At the end of the day, if I have my CDs all I need is some form of CD player and electricity. Shoot, a battery!
 
Also, we're used to the album format-as olds anyway. I'm just hardwired to think of listening to a CD or album-in terms of a complete piece of art with songs chosen, written and arranged for a particular reason.
 
That said-listening to my entire library in lossless files stored on a NAS has changed my life.
 
Just a few years ago, I had some CDs that I listened to in my car and my Ipod. I'm really a metal, rock and some indie guy.  When I went the Sonos route and started ripping everything into lossless. My wife and kid are basically pop top 40 radio fans. I said, I need something more neutral for the house and spend a year putting together a classic and alternative rock library and then last year jazz. Every paycheck, spend 35-50 at Amazon or the record/tape store. I was amazed the volume of music I amassed in a couple of years given used sales at my record store and used Amazon CDs-much more music than I ever bought in the vinyl days.
 
Feb 20, 2015 at 4:40 PM Post #23,303 of 65,642
I have ripped cds to flac files for a couple of years now.....I also was turned on to a great site by Jay for downloading high bitrate mp3 and flac files.........it has kind of turned into my crack cocaine......i have downloaded over 650 albums in just a few months  
eek.gif

 
Feb 20, 2015 at 6:09 PM Post #23,305 of 65,642
  have you guys seen this? Stuff that MP3 leaves out.
 
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That was weird...I had this urge to put my hands on the screen and start communicating with a demon
 
Feb 20, 2015 at 6:21 PM Post #23,306 of 65,642
GRADOS and Fresh ground coffee in the morning. Brews and tunes in the afternoon here! No disrespect to a very fine headphone review kayandjohn. But to be fair to the PS 1000 what I like so much about them is the very fact that the only flavor they have is only what you put in them. The way you get EXACTLY what is being produced good or bad with no coloring. What makes them so impressing to me is that they can handle bettter than any other headphone the full range of what you feed them bar none! Give them a try with different amps and some well produced music and decide for yourself how well others keep up. That's the true test. But that's only me!
 
Feb 21, 2015 at 12:22 AM Post #23,307 of 65,642
GRADOS and Fresh ground coffee in the morning. Brews and tunes in the afternoon here! No disrepect to a very fine headphone review kayandjohn. to the PS 1000 what I like so much about them is the very fact that the only flavor they have is only what you put in them. The way you get EXACTLY what is being produced good or bad with no coloring. What makes them so impressing to me is that they can handle bettter than any other headphone the full range of what you feed them bar none! Give them a try with different amps and some well produced music and decide for yourself how well others keep up. That's the true test. But that's only me!


My PS1000s get more head time than ANY of my others!
 
Feb 21, 2015 at 2:40 AM Post #23,308 of 65,642
Feel like I should really give the PS1k and GS1k another try. I didn't spend much time with them, but if my memories serve me right the mids on the PS1k is "recessed" in the same sense as on the PS500. Another thing is I don't think my ODAC O2 and LD I+ can drive the PS1k to their full potential
 
Feb 21, 2015 at 3:00 AM Post #23,309 of 65,642
  Feel like I should really give the PS1k and GS1k another try. I didn't spend much time with them, but if my memories serve me right the mids on the PS1k is "recessed" in the same sense as on the PS500. Another thing is I don't think my ODAC O2 and LD I+ can drive the PS1k to their full potential

 
 
Same here...I'd be really curious to hear the GS1ks in the "e" version. I chose the PS500s over the i version, but now that I've had a taste of the new driver I'd really be interested to compare. I love the look of the GS1ks...just beautiful headphones. 
 

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