[Kitechaser]

Shame it doesn’t have memory wire to go over the ears. And with it being thicker I’m not sure how well it would fit over ear hooks.

Will be interested in your opinion once you have it.

Use the chin slider on the cable to make it snug.
I take all memory wires off my cables, more comfortable that way.

 

[perfecious]

Well, you guys pretty much hear the same differences that me and a friend of mine "experienced" the other day, when comparing my NICEHCK pure copper cable, versus the stock SPC cable that comes with the BGVP DM5.

In short, the stock SPC cable that comes with the DM5, sounds very clear, and has great separation of instruments (the cymbals on "Pink Floyd - In The Flesh" was my test song), but it has very "blunted" bass, that has very limited extension'/decay, and is overall weaker compared to the high-mids and the treble, which with that cable sounds very harsh, and "strident".

When using the NICEHCK 8-Core High Purity Copper Cable ,the sound got open, and the bass pretty much from a "blunted", under-powered blob that had no definition, and had very fast and almost non-existent sub-bass/extension, turned into a pumping, long-decay bass canon, which was mind blowing. The treble clarity slightly suffered when it comes to the cymbals (they sounded more congested and quieter), but it made the IEM much more listenable and enjoyable (turned it into a great sounding V-shaped machine, instead of the strident, fatiguing mess that it was with the stock cable).

So, I know believe in sound difference between SPC and Copper-only cables. You guys no longer need to fear ridicule when you are telling what you hear, because I will try to explain what is happening below. Get ready- this will be a wild ride .


I wanted to wait with such post (and probably post in the science forum, where it belongs), but now that the discussion is happening, I will post a mini-version here.

So, let's start with the basics first, just so that we can all have a common understanding about electricity (I know there a people reading this that know this stuff, but this post is made for those that don't).

The voltage which I would call the "field" (or the "difference" between two potentials, as the official definition says, that "drives" the current) is the actual sound waves, that make the coil inside a driver (I'm using a dynamic driver as an example, and if you want, you can go and watch this awesome video about how different drivers work) jump around the magnetic, core. These jumps move the membrane, and thus - creating vibrations, or - the sound. (cool stuff, heh? )

The voltage variation is basically your sound (this is basic I know, but I'm adding it to those that didn't know it before), and if it travels on the surface (by the way, that's why we have elements like the Inductor/coil, and one of their properties literally include creating an electro-magnetic field, where the "current/amperage" stays behind, and the field-voltage basically gets ahead of the current, and thus - phase changes), different surfaces should affect different frequencies in a different ways, which means that in the end, cables do change frequency response (and this is mainly about cables with single material/same-conductivity on the surface and the core - copper-only cable, versus a "mix" silver-plated-copper). And here is why:

I did an experiment with a friend of mine a few days ago, using the BGVP DM5 (which is a hybrid 2DD+2BA), comparing the stock SPC cable that comes with the DM5, to my awesome new Pure Copper Cable that me and many others recommended, (that I mentioned too many times already xD)

(hint: you can skip to the section with the *** below, with everything else in the spoiler)

And my friend kept saying something about the electricity travelling on the surface of the cable/wire/conductor (something I forgot about, or I simply failed to make the connection), and as logic dictates, knowing that silver is more conductive than copper, (and especially since it's plated on top of the wire in most cases, meaning it's exactly on the surface), there should also be differences in sound (more powerful/faster/louder treble/high frequencies, but unfortunately also "phase" shifting/changing), because if I understand correctly, higher frequency voltage travels mainly on the surface, while the bigger peaks (which would be the the lower frequencies, or low-end) would basically be the bigger field, and should travel deeper at the core/s of the wire.

And if the higher frequencies on the surface (silver-plated) have the easier surface to travel, logically they will come out more powerful, and even slightly ahead of the rest of the frequencies (lower-end ones), which would logically mean "phase" disparity (treble will reach the drivers slightly before the low-end). I believe this "phenomenon" with SPC cables was described by many already (something about coherency?), but nobody that I know of (maybe somebody did it in the "science" section of the forum?) perhaps tried to describe it from the scientific/electrical point of view, based on what he was hearing with actual music. (and I'm not talking about "graphs" using a single sine-wave sweep at all here, those to me would be useless to detect that sonic difference, or maybe the methodology/gear used was not ideal? I don't know...)

So yeah, that's why there is indeed a sonic difference between cables with the same material/properties like pure copper, and cables who basically give an "unfair advantage" LOLz to the in this case - the higher frequencies/treble, like SPC cables do. If you are comparing apples-to-apples, like pure copper cable vs. another pure copper cable, the difference should basically be only in the perceived volume, assuming that both of those cables have differences in conductivity (more cores vs. less cores might also have a very slight difference, but I would call that too small for it to matter).

The perfect experiment to me would be a SPC cable vs. OCC copper cable (no matter the price), that have more or less the same conductivity/resistence (good luck with that though, but since @hakuzen has a big collection of cables, he might be able to find 2 cables for a proper experiment?), so that we can exclude the "one-being-more-louder-than-the-other" from the equation when measuring them with actual music/gear/our-ears.

That's gonna be it for now. I will make a separate thread in the science section on the forum, where I will go far deeper than that, with actual experiments and sound test between different cables, and the exact procedures we used (what music, what source, what tips, and which cables). Me and my friend are also considering going back to our school, and asking our teachers there for even more information, that we can properly articulate, with the proper terms, and even graphs/pictures, so... awesome things might be coming.

*** I roughly explained these procedures in a comment below @Hawaiibadboy's "iBasso iT01s Review" video (my name on YT is Astralify, that crazy O.C.D person), in response to a commenter (Vignesh Baskaran), that said that cables don't make a difference, something of which I was a believer of (probably because of the "Group Attribution Error" phenomenon), right until I've tested that with my own ears, which turned into a friendly debate between me and another person, so, if some of you are interested, you can check out that discussion there (my posts are the usual annoyingly long essays that I usually do , so it might be a pain in a YT comment, but...). I will only post my first comment here, under the spoiler:

Spoiler

Actually, yesterday I've set down with a friend of mine, using the BGVP DM5 (a fairly difficult to drive 32ohm impedance hybrid), on my Axon 7 vs. his galaxy S7. The axon 7 is... "What MAN?!" in comparison to the S7. The S7 (which would be pretty much like every other phone), sounded dead, muffled, even though you could push the volume to loud, but still... Dead sounding. No dynamics at all.

My Axon 7 has 2 modes, a HiFi and SuperHifi setting. Even on the regular (which is slightly weaker, I guess the SuperHiFi is like a switch that pushes the amps into a different mode), it sounded lively and just... impressive. And with the SuperHiFi setting on, things just went... unreal. He didn't believe me when I was describing that to him, but yeah... It would pretty much feel as if going from a single end on a DAP, to a powerful dynamic sounding Balanced output. And it's not ofc, because it has a regular 3,5 single end jack. Anyway...

So, this was really about if cables make a difference post, but the beginning was more of an "intro", so that you guys can get the setup.

The experiments we did (with 3 different cables, one was a NICEHCK pure copper, the original cable that comes with the DM5 (SPC most likely), and a hybrid core one - half pure copper, half silver plated). And here is the kicker...

THERE ACTUALLY WAS A DIFFERENCE IN FREQ RESPONSE

It was kinda mind-blowing for both of us. The difference is subtle (actually, it's not that subtle, the bass was much more present and powerful), but it was enough to slightly correct a very unpleasant part of the DM5's tuning, the one that made it sound "strident" (just like it was described in the review by @DocHoliday here on Head-Fi) with the original cable (still not perfect, but still slightly better/balanced). And we are talking about a NEXT LEVEL O.C.D here. But, my friend isn't really an O.C.D person, and yet we've heard the same thing for the most part, and that's without me influencing him, or driving him into a particular direction.

This is already a long post, and I will stop here, but I plan on creating a thread on HF, about all of this. More will be coming. And I think it's finally a time to bust some long going myths, or confirm them. And there's probably no one better to do that, than two O.C.D people (me and HBB), that don't care about the rules, but trust what they hear with their ears.

Now, I don;'t know if you will see this post, BGGAR, but I would like to contact you privately somewhere (DMs on Head-Fi perhaps?), if that's OK with you ofc. I have some samples to give you, that might be helpful for the sound demos, mainly about determining odd tonality. I think it would be very helpful and unique for the sound demos.

Thanks for reading.

(As a general warning, I would like to say, that I might have made some terminology mistakes, or other errors, so if you find any, please let me know and I will correct them. English is not my native language, and it's really a struggle sometimes, especially when it comes to hardcore terminology, and I even confuse voltage and current sometimes (LOLz), so forgive me. I think I got it right, but you never know with me and my chaotic brain. )

Thank you for reading!


- post reinstated -

 

[Kitechaser]

Yup, like I mentioned before in this thread, the difference to my ears is DRAMATIC, it is not subtle. Awesome breakdown ^^^^^.
There is also a clear sonic difference between different qualities of copper, and it's not just volume perception.
But that's a discussion for another day
Edit: SPC cables are mehhh to my ears. Only advantage they have, is for the manufacturer, that they are cheaper to produce.

 

[archy121]

It clicks, it's flush and it's a nice cable. Not sure about the sonics advantage but I like it's ergonomic properties better than the stock cable

Thanks for confirming the fit is good. I will pull the trigger on this or the BGVP OCC once I hear some feedback on that.

So unlike Jon Parker’s experience you can’t sense any real improvements in the Low-Mid area using the copper cable ?
He tested the cable with the DMG and I would have expected something similar with DM6 even if to a lesser extent.

 

[Tony51]

@mr.karmalicious @jon parker @Redcarmoose Well, you guys pretty much hear the same differences that me and a friend of mine "experienced" the other day, when comparing my NICEHCK pure copper cable, versus the stock SPC cable that comes with the BGVP DM5.

In short, the stock SPC cable that comes with the DM5, sounds very clear, and has great separation of instruments (the cymbals on "Pink Floyd - In The Flesh" was my test song), but it has very "blunted" bass, that has very limited extension'/decay, and is overall weaker compared to the high-mids and the treble, which with that cable sounds very harsh, and "strident".

When using the NICEHCK 8-Core High Purity Copper Cable ,the sound got open, and the bass pretty much from a "blunted", under-powered blob that had no definition, and had very fast and almost non-existent sub-bass/extension, turned into a pumping, long-decay bass canon, which was mind blowing. The treble clarity slightly suffered when it comes to the cymbals (they sounded more congested and quieter), but it made the IEM much more listenable and enjoyable (turned it into a great sounding V-shaped machine, instead of the strident, fatiguing mess that it was with the stock cable).

So, I know believe in sound difference between SPC and Copper-only cables. You guys no longer need to fear ridicule when you are telling what you hear, because I will try to explain what is happening below. Get ready- this will be a wild ride .


I wanted to wait with such post (and probably post in the science forum, where it belongs), but now that the discussion is happening, I will post a mini-version here.

So, let's start with the basics first, just so that we can all have a common understanding about electricity (I know there a people reading this that know this stuff, but this post is made for those that don't).

The voltage which I would call the "field" (or the "difference" between two potentials, as the official definition says, that "drives" the current) is the actual sound waves, that make the coil inside a driver (I'm using a dynamic driver as an example, and if you want, you can go and watch this awesome video about how different drivers work) jump around the magnetic, core. These jumps move the membrane, and thus - creating vibrations, or - the sound. (cool stuff, heh? )

The voltage variation is basically your sound (this is basic I know, but I'm adding it to those that didn't know it before), and if it travels on the surface (by the way, that's why we have elements like the Inductor/coil, and one of their properties literally include creating an electro-magnetic field, where the "current/amperage" stays behind, and the field-voltage basically gets ahead of the current, and thus - phase changes), different surfaces should affect different frequencies in a different ways, which means that in the end, cables do change frequency response (and this is mainly about cables with single material/same-conductivity on the surface and the core - copper-only cable, versus a "mix" silver-plated-copper). And here is why:

I did an experiment with a friend of mine a few days ago, using the BGVP DM5 (which is a hybrid 2DD+2BA), comparing the stock SPC cable that comes with the DM5, to my awesome new Pure Copper Cable that me and many others recommended, (that I mentioned too many times already xD)

(hint: you can skip to the section with the *** below, with everything else in the spoiler)

And my friend kept saying something about the electricity travelling on the surface of the cable/wire/conductor (something I forgot about, or I simply failed to make the connection), and as logic dictates, knowing that silver is more conductive than copper, (and especially since it's plated on top of the wire in most cases, meaning it's exactly on the surface), there should also be differences in sound (more powerful/faster/louder treble/high frequencies, but unfortunately also "phase" shifting/changing), because if I understand correctly, higher frequency voltage travels mainly on the surface, while the bigger peaks (which would be the the lower frequencies, or low-end) would basically be the bigger field, and should travel deeper at the core/s of the wire.

And if the higher frequencies on the surface (silver-plated) have the easier surface to travel, logically they will come out more powerful, and even slightly ahead of the rest of the frequencies (lower-end ones), which would logically mean "phase" disparity (treble will reach the drivers slightly before the low-end). I believe this "phenomenon" with SPC cables was described by many already (something about coherency?), but nobody that I know of (maybe somebody did it in the "science" section of the forum?) perhaps tried to describe it from the scientific/electrical point of view, based on what he was hearing with actual music. (and I'm not talking about "graphs" using a single sine-wave sweep at all here, those to me would be useless to detect that sonic difference, or maybe the methodology/gear used was not ideal? I don't know...)

So yeah, that's why there is indeed a sonic difference between cables with the same material/properties like pure copper, and cables who basically give an "unfair advantage" LOLz to the in this case - the higher frequencies/treble, like SPC cables do. If you are comparing apples-to-apples, like pure copper cable vs. another pure copper cable, the difference should basically be only in the perceived volume, assuming that both of those cables have differences in conductivity (more cores vs. less cores might also have a very slight difference, but I would call that too small for it to matter).

The perfect experiment to me would be a SPC cable vs. OCC copper cable (no matter the price), that have more or less the same conductivity/resistence (good luck with that though, but since @hakuzen has a big collection of cables, he might be able to find 2 cables for a proper experiment?), so that we can exclude the "one-being-more-louder-than-the-other" from the equation when measuring them with actual music/gear/our-ears.

That's gonna be it for now. I will make a separate thread in the science section on the forum, where I will go far deeper than that, with actual experiments and sound test between different cables, and the exact procedures we used (what music, what source, what tips, and which cables). Me and my friend are also considering going back to our school, and asking our teachers there for even more information, that we can properly articulate, with the proper terms, and even graphs/pictures, so... awesome things might be coming.

*** I roughly explained these procedures in a comment below @Hawaiibadboy's "iBasso iT01s Review" video (my name on YT is Astralify, that crazy O.C.D person), in response to a commenter (Vignesh Baskaran), that said that cables don't make a difference, something of which I was a believer of (probably because of the "Group Attribution Error" phenomenon), right until I've tested that with my own ears, which turned into a friendly debate between me and another person, so, if some of you are interested, you can check out that discussion there (my posts are the usual annoyingly long essays that I usually do , so it might be a pain in a YT comment, but...). I will only post my first comment here, under the spoiler:

Spoiler

Actually, yesterday I've set down with a friend of mine, using the BGVP DM5 (a fairly difficult to drive 32ohm impedance hybrid), on my Axon 7 vs. his galaxy S7. The axon 7 is... "What MAN?!" in comparison to the S7. The S7 (which would be pretty much like every other phone), sounded dead, muffled, even though you could push the volume to loud, but still... Dead sounding. No dynamics at all.

My Axon 7 has 2 modes, a HiFi and SuperHifi setting. Even on the regular (which is slightly weaker, I guess the SuperHiFi is like a switch that pushes the amps into a different mode), it sounded lively and just... impressive. And with the SuperHiFi setting on, things just went... unreal. He didn't believe me when I was describing that to him, but yeah... It would pretty much feel as if going from a single end on a DAP, to a powerful dynamic sounding Balanced output. And it's not ofc, because it has a regular 3,5 single end jack. Anyway...

So, this was really about if cables make a difference post, but the beginning was more of an "intro", so that you guys can get the setup.

The experiments we did (with 3 different cables, one was a NICEHCK pure copper, the original cable that comes with the DM5 (SPC most likely), and a hybrid core one - half pure copper, half silver plated). And here is the kicker...

THERE ACTUALLY WAS A DIFFERENCE IN FREQ RESPONSE

It was kinda mind-blowing for both of us. The difference is subtle (actually, it's not that subtle, the bass was much more present and powerful), but it was enough to slightly correct a very unpleasant part of the DM5's tuning, the one that made it sound "strident" (just like it was described in the review by @DocHoliday here on Head-Fi) with the original cable (still not perfect, but still slightly better/balanced). And we are talking about a NEXT LEVEL O.C.D here. But, my friend isn't really an O.C.D person, and yet we've heard the same thing for the most part, and that's without me influencing him, or driving him into a particular direction.

This is already a long post, and I will stop here, but I plan on creating a thread on HF, about all of this. More will be coming. And I think it's finally a time to bust some long going myths, or confirm them. And there's probably no one better to do that, than two O.C.D people (me and HBB), that don't care about the rules, but trust what they hear with their ears.

Now, I don;'t know if you will see this post, BGGAR, but I would like to contact you privately somewhere (DMs on Head-Fi perhaps?), if that's OK with you ofc. I have some samples to give you, that might be helpful for the sound demos, mainly about determining odd tonality. I think it would be very helpful and unique for the sound demos.

Thanks for reading.

(As a general warning, I would like to say, that I might have made some terminology mistakes, or other errors, so if you find any, please let me know and I will correct them. English is not my native language, and it's really a struggle sometimes, especially when it comes to hardcore terminology, and I even confuse voltage and current sometimes (LOLz), so forgive me. I think I got it right, but you never know with me and my chaotic brain. )

Thank you for reading!

I think you nailed it .I have the spc vs the all copper and I found the cymbals s tit louder but less refined and the bass to be cleaner and more resolved on the all copper. I can also go louder with clearness. I'm loving the all copper hands down.

 

[niron]

@mr.karmalicious @jon parker @Redcarmoose Well, you guys pretty much hear the same differences that me and a friend of mine "experienced" the other day, when comparing my NICEHCK pure copper cable, versus the stock SPC cable that comes with the BGVP DM5.

In short, the stock SPC cable that comes with the DM5, sounds very clear, and has great separation of instruments (the cymbals on "Pink Floyd - In The Flesh" was my test song), but it has very "blunted" bass, that has very limited extension'/decay, and is overall weaker compared to the high-mids and the treble, which with that cable sounds very harsh, and "strident".

When using the NICEHCK 8-Core High Purity Copper Cable ,the sound got open, and the bass pretty much from a "blunted", under-powered blob that had no definition, and had very fast and almost non-existent sub-bass/extension, turned into a pumping, long-decay bass canon, which was mind blowing. The treble clarity slightly suffered when it comes to the cymbals (they sounded more congested and quieter), but it made the IEM much more listenable and enjoyable (turned it into a great sounding V-shaped machine, instead of the strident, fatiguing mess that it was with the stock cable).

So, I know believe in sound difference between SPC and Copper-only cables. You guys no longer need to fear ridicule when you are telling what you hear, because I will try to explain what is happening below. Get ready- this will be a wild ride .


I wanted to wait with such post (and probably post in the science forum, where it belongs), but now that the discussion is happening, I will post a mini-version here.

So, let's start with the basics first, just so that we can all have a common understanding about electricity (I know there a people reading this that know this stuff, but this post is made for those that don't).

The voltage which I would call the "field" (or the "difference" between two potentials, as the official definition says, that "drives" the current) is the actual sound waves, that make the coil inside a driver (I'm using a dynamic driver as an example, and if you want, you can go and watch this awesome video about how different drivers work) jump around the magnetic, core. These jumps move the membrane, and thus - creating vibrations, or - the sound. (cool stuff, heh? )

The voltage variation is basically your sound (this is basic I know, but I'm adding it to those that didn't know it before), and if it travels on the surface (by the way, that's why we have elements like the Inductor/coil, and one of their properties literally include creating an electro-magnetic field, where the "current/amperage" stays behind, and the field-voltage basically gets ahead of the current, and thus - phase changes), different surfaces should affect different frequencies in a different ways, which means that in the end, cables do change frequency response (and this is mainly about cables with single material/same-conductivity on the surface and the core - copper-only cable, versus a "mix" silver-plated-copper). And here is why:

I did an experiment with a friend of mine a few days ago, using the BGVP DM5 (which is a hybrid 2DD+2BA), comparing the stock SPC cable that comes with the DM5, to my awesome new Pure Copper Cable that me and many others recommended, (that I mentioned too many times already xD)

(hint: you can skip to the section with the *** below, with everything else in the spoiler)

And my friend kept saying something about the electricity travelling on the surface of the cable/wire/conductor (something I forgot about, or I simply failed to make the connection), and as logic dictates, knowing that silver is more conductive than copper, (and especially since it's plated on top of the wire in most cases, meaning it's exactly on the surface), there should also be differences in sound (more powerful/faster/louder treble/high frequencies, but unfortunately also "phase" shifting/changing), because if I understand correctly, higher frequency voltage travels mainly on the surface, while the bigger peaks (which would be the the lower frequencies, or low-end) would basically be the bigger field, and should travel deeper at the core/s of the wire.

And if the higher frequencies on the surface (silver-plated) have the easier surface to travel, logically they will come out more powerful, and even slightly ahead of the rest of the frequencies (lower-end ones), which would logically mean "phase" disparity (treble will reach the drivers slightly before the low-end). I believe this "phenomenon" with SPC cables was described by many already (something about coherency?), but nobody that I know of (maybe somebody did it in the "science" section of the forum?) perhaps tried to describe it from the scientific/electrical point of view, based on what he was hearing with actual music. (and I'm not talking about "graphs" using a single sine-wave sweep at all here, those to me would be useless to detect that sonic difference, or maybe the methodology/gear used was not ideal? I don't know...)

So yeah, that's why there is indeed a sonic difference between cables with the same material/properties like pure copper, and cables who basically give an "unfair advantage" LOLz to the in this case - the higher frequencies/treble, like SPC cables do. If you are comparing apples-to-apples, like pure copper cable vs. another pure copper cable, the difference should basically be only in the perceived volume, assuming that both of those cables have differences in conductivity (more cores vs. less cores might also have a very slight difference, but I would call that too small for it to matter).

The perfect experiment to me would be a SPC cable vs. OCC copper cable (no matter the price), that have more or less the same conductivity/resistence (good luck with that though, but since @hakuzen has a big collection of cables, he might be able to find 2 cables for a proper experiment?), so that we can exclude the "one-being-more-louder-than-the-other" from the equation when measuring them with actual music/gear/our-ears.

That's gonna be it for now. I will make a separate thread in the science section on the forum, where I will go far deeper than that, with actual experiments and sound test between different cables, and the exact procedures we used (what music, what source, what tips, and which cables). Me and my friend are also considering going back to our school, and asking our teachers there for even more information, that we can properly articulate, with the proper terms, and even graphs/pictures, so... awesome things might be coming.

*** I roughly explained these procedures in a comment below @Hawaiibadboy's "iBasso iT01s Review" video (my name on YT is Astralify, that crazy O.C.D person), in response to a commenter (Vignesh Baskaran), that said that cables don't make a difference, something of which I was a believer of (probably because of the "Group Attribution Error" phenomenon), right until I've tested that with my own ears, which turned into a friendly debate between me and another person, so, if some of you are interested, you can check out that discussion there (my posts are the usual annoyingly long essays that I usually do , so it might be a pain in a YT comment, but...). I will only post my first comment here, under the spoiler:

Spoiler

Actually, yesterday I've set down with a friend of mine, using the BGVP DM5 (a fairly difficult to drive 32ohm impedance hybrid), on my Axon 7 vs. his galaxy S7. The axon 7 is... "What MAN?!" in comparison to the S7. The S7 (which would be pretty much like every other phone), sounded dead, muffled, even though you could push the volume to loud, but still... Dead sounding. No dynamics at all.

My Axon 7 has 2 modes, a HiFi and SuperHifi setting. Even on the regular (which is slightly weaker, I guess the SuperHiFi is like a switch that pushes the amps into a different mode), it sounded lively and just... impressive. And with the SuperHiFi setting on, things just went... unreal. He didn't believe me when I was describing that to him, but yeah... It would pretty much feel as if going from a single end on a DAP, to a powerful dynamic sounding Balanced output. And it's not ofc, because it has a regular 3,5 single end jack. Anyway...

So, this was really about if cables make a difference post, but the beginning was more of an "intro", so that you guys can get the setup.

The experiments we did (with 3 different cables, one was a NICEHCK pure copper, the original cable that comes with the DM5 (SPC most likely), and a hybrid core one - half pure copper, half silver plated). And here is the kicker...

THERE ACTUALLY WAS A DIFFERENCE IN FREQ RESPONSE

It was kinda mind-blowing for both of us. The difference is subtle (actually, it's not that subtle, the bass was much more present and powerful), but it was enough to slightly correct a very unpleasant part of the DM5's tuning, the one that made it sound "strident" (just like it was described in the review by @DocHoliday here on Head-Fi) with the original cable (still not perfect, but still slightly better/balanced). And we are talking about a NEXT LEVEL O.C.D here. But, my friend isn't really an O.C.D person, and yet we've heard the same thing for the most part, and that's without me influencing him, or driving him into a particular direction.

This is already a long post, and I will stop here, but I plan on creating a thread on HF, about all of this. More will be coming. And I think it's finally a time to bust some long going myths, or confirm them. And there's probably no one better to do that, than two O.C.D people (me and HBB), that don't care about the rules, but trust what they hear with their ears.

Now, I don;'t know if you will see this post, BGGAR, but I would like to contact you privately somewhere (DMs on Head-Fi perhaps?), if that's OK with you ofc. I have some samples to give you, that might be helpful for the sound demos, mainly about determining odd tonality. I think it would be very helpful and unique for the sound demos.

Thanks for reading.

(As a general warning, I would like to say, that I might have made some terminology mistakes, or other errors, so if you find any, please let me know and I will correct them. English is not my native language, and it's really a struggle sometimes, especially when it comes to hardcore terminology, and I even confuse voltage and current sometimes (LOLz), so forgive me. I think I got it right, but you never know with me and my chaotic brain. )

Thank you for reading!

Why do you keep calling them DM5? The model is DM6

 

[perfecious]

Why do you keep calling them DM5? The model is DM6

The BGVP DM5 is a different IEM. It's a 4 driver hybrid, probably their previous model. I haven't got my DM6 yet.

 

[niron]

Gotcha. Not familiar with this version.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I only have silver coated aftermarket copper cables; probably have a pure copper in a month. Glad to hear about the changes. It’s kinda wild how much different IEMs and headphones respond. Though there is still a fairly large group at Head-Fi which are suspect of cables doing anything to alter the sound of an IEM either way, as long as in proper working order. I can say that I have one silver coated copper cable by one brand on one pair of DM6 IEMs and another brand of silver coated copper on a separate pair of DM6 IEMs. Changing to listen is fairly quick and there is a big difference even between brands of cables presumably of equal construction materials.

 

[jon parker]

Thanks for confirming the fit is good. I will pull the trigger on this or the BGVP OCC once I hear some feedback on that.

So unlike Jon Parker’s experience you can’t sense any real improvements in the Low-Mid area using the copper cable ?
He tested the cable with the DMG and I would have expected something similar with DM6 even if to a lesser extent.

I used the cable with Toneking 8xBA IEM not DM6 . . . Yet ! :/

 

[perfecious]

- post removed for convenience -

 

[Kitechaser]

Yeah, there probably would be a slight sonic difference between different "quality" of one type of cables, but there's where the price comes in, and diminishing returns comes.

I want to add, that the cable experiment from the other day with my friend included his own hybrid cable as well (so we tested 3 cables with the DM5), that he bought recently to use with his **** 4in1 IEM.

Here is a pic of that cable, not sure which one is it, but it's some sort of a hybrid, one part pure copper, the other SPC for each channel.



The results with that cable were, to put it simply, somewhere in the middle. The bass was very close to my Pure-copper cable, the treble was slightly clearer, but thinn-er. Still the stock SPC cable had the most clarity in the treble, but we already know about it's other deficiencies. The song we used to determine the sonic differences between that hybrid cable, and my NICEHCK pure copper, was "Bon Jovi - Runaway" (lossless FLAC, played on my Axon 7 in SuperHiFi mode). In that song, there are 4 main very subtle high-hat hits (I told you I am a crazy person xD), exactly between 00:04 - 00:06. We both heard differences in how these hits sounded. Basically it was like this:

1. On my NICEHCK Pure Copper cable, they were slightly harder to hear (compared to the stock SPC cable, that we already know excels at these types of details).

2. On his hybrid cable, they sounded pronounced, but somehow thinner. I don't know what exactly changed with that cable, but the best way I can describe it, is basically they sounded like the sticks were hitting on a Marble. Don't laugh, that's literally how I would describe that.

So... yeah. This is going to be an ongoing story. And if only those IEMs would've used 2 pin, I would've go even crazier with my experiments. But what I fear most, is the MMCX connector. There are pictures below from that night, where you can see everything - the cables, the IEMs, the sources and so on. I will also post a picture of my butchered T2's red bud, which has been soldered to the cable. Painful... I am 100% sure, that the Pure-Copper cable would do miracles with the T2s. But unfortunately, I will have to buy another pair...



(Ignore the light bulb. It blew up on us, probably because of the excitement in the room. )

Yes there is a very real price over improvement consideration you have to take into account with cables.
The only thing I can say is with some of the more transparent iems, that have higher resolutions, the differences to my ears increase.
Some people spend 1000+ dollars on cables, and that is excessive to say the least, but there are imrovements as you move up the price ladder.
Good quality metals, and decent construction is usually where I stop. No need to get a cable dipped in gold from ancient Inca coins etc etc.

 

[hakuzen]

@mr.karmalicious @jon parker @Redcarmoose Well, you guys pretty much hear the same differences that me and a friend of mine "experienced" the other day, when comparing my NICEHCK pure copper cable, versus the stock SPC cable that comes with the BGVP DM5.

In short, the stock SPC cable that comes with the DM5, sounds very clear, and has great separation of instruments (the cymbals on "Pink Floyd - In The Flesh" was my test song), but it has very "blunted" bass, that has very limited extension'/decay, and is overall weaker compared to the high-mids and the treble, which with that cable sounds very harsh, and "strident".

When using the NICEHCK 8-Core High Purity Copper Cable ,the sound got open, and the bass pretty much from a "blunted", under-powered blob that had no definition, and had very fast and almost non-existent sub-bass/extension, turned into a pumping, long-decay bass canon, which was mind blowing. The treble clarity slightly suffered when it comes to the cymbals (they sounded more congested and quieter), but it made the IEM much more listenable and enjoyable (turned it into a great sounding V-shaped machine, instead of the strident, fatiguing mess that it was with the stock cable).

So, I know believe in sound difference between SPC and Copper-only cables. You guys no longer need to fear ridicule when you are telling what you hear, because I will try to explain what is happening below. Get ready- this will be a wild ride .


I wanted to wait with such post (and probably post in the science forum, where it belongs), but now that the discussion is happening, I will post a mini-version here.

So, let's start with the basics first, just so that we can all have a common understanding about electricity (I know there a people reading this that know this stuff, but this post is made for those that don't).

The voltage which I would call the "field" (or the "difference" between two potentials, as the official definition says, that "drives" the current) is the actual sound waves, that make the coil inside a driver (I'm using a dynamic driver as an example, and if you want, you can go and watch this awesome video about how different drivers work) jump around the magnetic, core. These jumps move the membrane, and thus - creating vibrations, or - the sound. (cool stuff, heh? )

The voltage variation is basically your sound (this is basic I know, but I'm adding it to those that didn't know it before), and if it travels on the surface (by the way, that's why we have elements like the Inductor/coil, and one of their properties literally include creating an electro-magnetic field, where the "current/amperage" stays behind, and the field-voltage basically gets ahead of the current, and thus - phase changes), different surfaces should affect different frequencies in a different ways, which means that in the end, cables do change frequency response (and this is mainly about cables with single material/same-conductivity on the surface and the core - copper-only cable, versus a "mix" silver-plated-copper). And here is why:

I did an experiment with a friend of mine a few days ago, using the BGVP DM5 (which is a hybrid 2DD+2BA), comparing the stock SPC cable that comes with the DM5, to my awesome new Pure Copper Cable that me and many others recommended, (that I mentioned too many times already xD)

(hint: you can skip to the section with the *** below, with everything else in the spoiler)

And my friend kept saying something about the electricity travelling on the surface of the cable/wire/conductor (something I forgot about, or I simply failed to make the connection), and as logic dictates, knowing that silver is more conductive than copper, (and especially since it's plated on top of the wire in most cases, meaning it's exactly on the surface), there should also be differences in sound (more powerful/faster/louder treble/high frequencies, but unfortunately also "phase" shifting/changing), because if I understand correctly, higher frequency voltage travels mainly on the surface, while the bigger peaks (which would be the the lower frequencies, or low-end) would basically be the bigger field, and should travel deeper at the core/s of the wire.

And if the higher frequencies on the surface (silver-plated) have the easier surface to travel, logically they will come out more powerful, and even slightly ahead of the rest of the frequencies (lower-end ones), which would logically mean "phase" disparity (treble will reach the drivers slightly before the low-end). I believe this "phenomenon" with SPC cables was described by many already (something about coherency?), but nobody that I know of (maybe somebody did it in the "science" section of the forum?) perhaps tried to describe it from the scientific/electrical point of view, based on what he was hearing with actual music. (and I'm not talking about "graphs" using a single sine-wave sweep at all here, those to me would be useless to detect that sonic difference, or maybe the methodology/gear used was not ideal? I don't know...)

So yeah, that's why there is indeed a sonic difference between cables with the same material/properties like pure copper, and cables who basically give an "unfair advantage" LOLz to the in this case - the higher frequencies/treble, like SPC cables do. If you are comparing apples-to-apples, like pure copper cable vs. another pure copper cable, the difference should basically be only in the perceived volume, assuming that both of those cables have differences in conductivity (more cores vs. less cores might also have a very slight difference, but I would call that too small for it to matter).

The perfect experiment to me would be a SPC cable vs. OCC copper cable (no matter the price), that have more or less the same conductivity/resistence (good luck with that though, but since @hakuzen has a big collection of cables, he might be able to find 2 cables for a proper experiment?), so that we can exclude the "one-being-more-louder-than-the-other" from the equation when measuring them with actual music/gear/our-ears.

That's gonna be it for now. I will make a separate thread in the science section on the forum, where I will go far deeper than that, with actual experiments and sound test between different cables, and the exact procedures we used (what music, what source, what tips, and which cables). Me and my friend are also considering going back to our school, and asking our teachers there for even more information, that we can properly articulate, with the proper terms, and even graphs/pictures, so... awesome things might be coming.

*** I roughly explained these procedures in a comment below @Hawaiibadboy's "iBasso iT01s Review" video (my name on YT is Astralify, that crazy O.C.D person), in response to a commenter (Vignesh Baskaran), that said that cables don't make a difference, something of which I was a believer of (probably because of the "Group Attribution Error" phenomenon), right until I've tested that with my own ears, which turned into a friendly debate between me and another person, so, if some of you are interested, you can check out that discussion there (my posts are the usual annoyingly long essays that I usually do , so it might be a pain in a YT comment, but...). I will only post my first comment here, under the spoiler:

Spoiler

Actually, yesterday I've set down with a friend of mine, using the BGVP DM5 (a fairly difficult to drive 32ohm impedance hybrid), on my Axon 7 vs. his galaxy S7. The axon 7 is... "What MAN?!" in comparison to the S7. The S7 (which would be pretty much like every other phone), sounded dead, muffled, even though you could push the volume to loud, but still... Dead sounding. No dynamics at all.

My Axon 7 has 2 modes, a HiFi and SuperHifi setting. Even on the regular (which is slightly weaker, I guess the SuperHiFi is like a switch that pushes the amps into a different mode), it sounded lively and just... impressive. And with the SuperHiFi setting on, things just went... unreal. He didn't believe me when I was describing that to him, but yeah... It would pretty much feel as if going from a single end on a DAP, to a powerful dynamic sounding Balanced output. And it's not ofc, because it has a regular 3,5 single end jack. Anyway...

So, this was really about if cables make a difference post, but the beginning was more of an "intro", so that you guys can get the setup.

The experiments we did (with 3 different cables, one was a NICEHCK pure copper, the original cable that comes with the DM5 (SPC most likely), and a hybrid core one - half pure copper, half silver plated). And here is the kicker...

THERE ACTUALLY WAS A DIFFERENCE IN FREQ RESPONSE

It was kinda mind-blowing for both of us. The difference is subtle (actually, it's not that subtle, the bass was much more present and powerful), but it was enough to slightly correct a very unpleasant part of the DM5's tuning, the one that made it sound "strident" (just like it was described in the review by @DocHoliday here on Head-Fi) with the original cable (still not perfect, but still slightly better/balanced). And we are talking about a NEXT LEVEL O.C.D here. But, my friend isn't really an O.C.D person, and yet we've heard the same thing for the most part, and that's without me influencing him, or driving him into a particular direction.

This is already a long post, and I will stop here, but I plan on creating a thread on HF, about all of this. More will be coming. And I think it's finally a time to bust some long going myths, or confirm them. And there's probably no one better to do that, than two O.C.D people (me and HBB), that don't care about the rules, but trust what they hear with their ears.

Now, I don;'t know if you will see this post, BGGAR, but I would like to contact you privately somewhere (DMs on Head-Fi perhaps?), if that's OK with you ofc. I have some samples to give you, that might be helpful for the sound demos, mainly about determining odd tonality. I think it would be very helpful and unique for the sound demos.

Thanks for reading.

(As a general warning, I would like to say, that I might have made some terminology mistakes, or other errors, so if you find any, please let me know and I will correct them. English is not my native language, and it's really a struggle sometimes, especially when it comes to hardcore terminology, and I even confuse voltage and current sometimes (LOLz), so forgive me. I think I got it right, but you never know with me and my chaotic brain. )

Thank you for reading!

my actual take on this matter: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...uck-cable-thread.891911/page-30#post-14714403

 

[archy121]

I used the cable with Toneking 8xBA IEM not DM6 . . . Yet ! :/

Sorry for the confusion. I thought you had referred to BGVP DMG.
Even so your experience with copper cable was useful feedback.

 

[dakchi]

Is it worth it to take the 16 core cable over the 8 core of Nicehck?