aptX Adaptive / aptX Lossless USB Transmitters
Sep 10, 2023 at 4:32 PM Post #1,547 of 2,166
Not anyone's fault, I read loosely all 103 pages and just wanted to die afterwards. Bluetooth the technology to make people including technical knowhow even more confused then when they started. Thankfully this thread is a godsend especially thanks to @mcnaugha and @helmutcheese. Hopefully developers and anyone invloved
in bluetooth technology be it adaptors, dongles, TVs, Android TVs, Phones etc all read this or at least the last 20-40 pages!

Its like the manufacturers and the bluetooth creators/dev team and anyone involved in Bluetooth forgot to get the basics right and just got it wrong and everyone followed suit yet still gets it wrong forever due to it.

I spoke to someone earlier, he has paid £700 on some B&O H95s and he has been using enjoying them for years so I just asked him has he actually set aptx-HD on his PC or phone........ he told me how to do that. Unless there is software, drivers, proper support on all platforms (TVs, Android/Apple, LG webos, Windows, Linux etc and actual buttons on both ends of the sources to select aptx-HD or the preferred Codec no one would even know whats going on as was with the poor chap who has spent £1000s and not even getting the sound benefits the poor bloke could be set on the lowest sbc mode.

I've always absolutely hated Bluetooth. It's ALWAYS been fiddly, archaic & behind any other kind of wireless connection in so many.

Just when I was starting to believe it was becoming bearable... here we go again.

I think they just need to *** Bluetooth off completely & use a totally different kind of wireless tech.



I swear even that logo causes my anxiety to spike.
 
Sep 11, 2023 at 9:05 AM Post #1,548 of 2,166
If people don't want to read 100+ pages..... I will try to summarize below
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Everyone loves and hates Bluetooth, why? too many standards, formats, codecs and devices all of them almost incompatible with each other or not supporting the right BT Codec. This is probably the best thread on the entire internet to try and work around or make some sense of the issues.

Example of why Bluetooth Wireless Audio & technology is so confusing and difficult;
I just bought Sony XM5 headphones but they support LDAC "high quality Audio" Codec, but wait my expensive 2023 TV does not support LDAC!?, Wait... my latest Windows 11+ PC does not support LDAC also...wait my Mobile phone only supports aptX not LDAC, what is going on!

Another example; LG OLED TVs more recent models support aptx-HD Bluetooth codec designed for high resolution Music listening. Did LG forget people actually use their TV to watch rather then listen to music? They should support aptx-adaptive for TV watching or better yet LE audios LC3+ for better lip-sync performance.


Why can't I just enjoy Bluetooth devices and get on with it?
-
Sure nearly all Bluetooth devices can default to older SBC codec or AAC etc and just work but then you can get lower quality audio or performance (Latency issues ie gaming delay/movies lip sync issues), so choice is yours.

To get a better understanding these are good reads
understanding bluetooth codecs
The best Bluetooth headphones can be ruined by a simple, elusive setting (applies to all Bluetooth devices, Phones etc)
Whathifi list all the Bluetooth Codecs and future ones


Top BT Adapters going or the ones that appear to work best for getting the best Bluetooth Connectivity with as much BT codecs but not all (AptX Codecs, LDAC etc) between our Bluetooth devices ie Windows 10/11+ PC, Linux PC, android/WebOs TVs/Android devices and Boxes/Mobile phones, Amps/Dacs, Portable Music players, etc

For Windows but may support Linux/Android/Mobile Phones/Games Consoles (Please check that is supports your devices)
KB8 and KB8P adapter
KB9 and KB9P adapter
Creative BT-W3,BT-W4, BT-W5 adapters (BT-W5 and BT-L4 confirmed working well enough with Nvidia Shield with adptx adaptive but has some crackles/audio drops also
recently discovered and props to @anonnexus here mentions 3 quick button presses (on the creative dongles) can adjust between AptX Adaptive HQ and AptX Adaptive LL this could work on other Creative BT dongles with a button on it, Tested on my Creative BT-L4 LE audio dongle and it does work also and switches to low and high modes.
Avantree DG60p adapter
Sennheiser BTD 600 adapter
Creative BT‑L3 and BT-L4 Audio Transmitter with LE/LC3 Codec support (only available with Creative Zen headphones)
Creative BT-L3 confirmed working well with Nvidia Shield (slight audio drops though) with LE audios L3+, 20-30ms latency so
best lip sync performance.
Creative BT‑L3 and BT-L4 Audio Transmitter with LE/LC3 Codec support (only available with Creative Zen headphones) (May work on other LE devices? see here)
FlooGoo FMA120 BT dongle with aptx-adaptive and LE audio support here and mentioned here
Avantree ProLink BT dongle with 3.5mm/2.5mm and USB connectivity with aptx hd/adaptive and LE audio/aptX-Lite here
Eppful AK818 with LE Audio here (May+ 2024 release) (double check the specs these may support apx and other BT codecs)
Avantree as70p LE receiver dongle here (May+ 2024 release) and specs here (double check the specs these may support apx and other BT codecs)
Eppfun AK3040 Pro Max USB C transmitter (New Qualcomm S3 & S5 Gen 3 platform standards) with LE works and possibly? Aptx Lossless. See here

For TVs/Android devices/boxes (May use Optical/3.5mm headphone jack/BT mode- again check it supports your device)
***Edit** (My personal choice) Artic Steelseries Pro Wireless headphones, currently my daily drivers due to 2.4ghz wifi wireless break out box supporting optical input/others. Gives best latency/lipsync performance to date but only via optical input. Works perfect for normal TV watching, Nvidia shield pro 2019 and PC check my review linked at bottom.
eppfun 3040R Pro Bluetooth Receiver (LDAC/APTX/APTX LL/APTX HD/LDAC/AAC/SBC)
eppfun AK3046D Bluetooth 5.2
eppfun AK3046C Bluetooth 5.2 Transmitter Receiver
eppfun AK8675 Pro aptX-Adaptive
eppfun bluetooth 5.3 LE audio transmitter receiver for audio (only supports LC3 Not LC3+, review link at bottom)
Avantree Oasis plus
Avantree Orbit Pro (pre-order as of September 2023)
Avantree DG60p adapter (works with Nvidia Shield Pro 2019 with LDAC)
Creative Zen hybrid Headphones + New BT Adapter with BT 5.3 and LC3+, LC3+ULL (ultra low latency 20ms) Codec for Gaming/Movies Now available here



Probably 1000+ other devices but you can google for the above products to get specifications but I would recommend searching this thread or headfi forums for more info on specifics and issues you may face since its been repeated numerous times on this thread.

Usually aliexpress have these devices for sale just search for the model ie KB9P, Amazon or ebay also have them but under different brands and companies sometimes offering faster delivery usually cost more though, eppfun is one such company there all over amazon and have a store on aliexpress.

Its almost trial and error if they work or work well without cracking/popping or may just not work with your BT headphones, phones, IEMs, buds, TVs etc

Please note even this post/Info is already out of date by the time you read it since manufactures/Organisations release new BT standards and Codecs every year and compete with each other and make it even more confusing then it is. I also recommend reading this thread or the last 20-30 pages if you can to keep updated.


Other important links:

Bluetooth troubleshooting checklist - Manufacturers are free to use or copy this list

What I would like Manufacturers using Bluetooth technology to do in their own products before shipping

Firmware updates, Bluetooth Software for KB8/9 and more here

How to get LDAC and Aptx-HD Codecs and better options in Windows 10/11 here and main site here (won't work always or support all BT modes/codecs though)

What happen to AptX-LL? and what is AptX-Adaptive here

What is LC3 and LE Audio codecs here also here and here(has done real world testing in gaming/latency test )

What is Aptx Lossless

16bit vs 24bit and bitdepths explained here

HeadphoneAddict Bluetooth guide here

Soundguys Understanding codecs (Updated Aug 2023) here

Soundguys why LDAC is not high resolution here

Soundguys why Bluetooth Latency is still a problem here

BT LE, LC3, LC3+, LC3+HR breakdown here props to @011111

Snapdragon Sound with aptX Lossless technology mentioned here, a device already supported here

Reviews on some Bluetooth Chinese Transmitters/Receivers
eppfun AK8675 Pro Bluetooth 5.2
Avantree DG60P 5.3 USB receiver (2023 edition) mini review
eppfun AK3046D Bluetooth 5.2 Qualcomm aptX-Adaptive HD Transmitter
1Mii Bluetooth 5.3 Transmitter Receiver for TV to Headphones (Amazon review)
Arylic B50 BT transmitter/Receiver YT review and Some after thoughts I had
Avantree Relay review
Creative BT-W5 and BT-L3 reviews here
Creative Hybrid Zen BT headphones with BT-L3 adapter review here
Creative X5 desktop amp with USB A BT Transmitter/Receiver mode works with Creative BT dongles review here
Eppfun LE audio 5.3 BT transmitter/Receiver from ali express review here
Artic Pro Wireless Steelseries Wireless 2.4ghz Wifi wireless headphones with docking station with optical input review here (Excellent for TV/Gamers)
Sony Pulse Elite 2.4ghz Wireless headphones review here


Latency Checker app/website props to @helmutcheese here and direct link here and Lipsync cartoon real world test here

Latency better Real world test video here its a youtube video titled "A Closer Look to the Max: Trump Fraud Trial" by late night with seth meyers
where at the start of the video he rapid talks current news affairs, excellent test for lip sync which can be done via YT app on any device (phone, TV, cable/sat tv etc)

Latency benchmarks and test with Sennheiser MOMENTUM 4 hps and top end BT dongles here props by @klaboor

LEAudio latency test - LC3+ 20-30ms and LC3 50-60ms here

Snapdragon Sound Qualcomm S7 SoundPlatform, Snapdragon Wifi for Next generation Wireless sound for 2024+

AS Drflimflam member ran some optical vs usb latency test (Gamers/Movie watchers) here (Optical much better latency)

Ferrite Cabling and optical (hdmi/audio/usb) cables are better for reducing EMI/Noise and interference for general connectivity and BT mentioned here

Soundguys What is Snapdragon Sound article (November 2023 article) here

Will Snapdragons XPAN/S7 wifi wireless Audio work on Existing wifi networks and Routers? Yes it will see here

Qualcomm confirms Snapdragon X Elite PCs will launch with the "next version of Windows" in June
News spotted here


Any other links/suggestions or edits I need to do, post away. Hopefully people can just link to this thread for links
 
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Sep 11, 2023 at 9:13 AM Post #1,549 of 2,166
I've always absolutely hated Bluetooth. It's ALWAYS been fiddly, archaic & behind any other kind of wireless connection in so many.

Just when I was starting to believe it was becoming bearable... here we go again.

I think they just need to *** Bluetooth off completely & use a totally different kind of wireless tech.



I swear even that logo causes my anxiety to spike.

After 103+ pages I was ready to back to Wired headphones and Wired devices for another 40+ years, Bluetooth technology is mind numbing stuff.

But Bluetooth Wireless Audio and technology gives a level of freedom over the Wired Connectivity, you are not bogged down to one chair or one room, you can actually move around freely or visit the rest room or make a cup of tea and even eat and use your phone!

I believe its the future and its worth it, hopefully my above Summary post makes it a bit easier for new comers/visitors and anyone to make a bit of sense of it all.
 
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Sep 11, 2023 at 9:28 AM Post #1,550 of 2,166
After 103+ pages I was ready to back to Wired headphones and Wired devices for another 40+ years, Bluetooth technology is mind numbing stuff.

But Bluetooth Wireless Audio and technology gives a level of freedom over the Wired Connectivity, you are not bogged down to one chair or one room, you can actually move around freely or visit the rest room or make a cup of tea and even eat and use your phone!

I believe its the future and its worth it, hopefully my above Summary thread makes it a bit easier for new comers/visitors and anyone to make a bit of sense of it all.
I am recovering from a serious injury since late 2019 & have approx one more year to go.

I've spent 95% of my the last almost 4 years on my bed & even in that scenario BT can be extremely frustrating - not always - but very much so. This issues counters some significant positives in your findings. I would highly doubt this is exclusive to PS5 as I've had similar scenarios that could well be down to this elsewhere. I bought a BT-W4 as I lost the dongle for my Audeze Maxwell. The audio was very spotty. Another user on here asked if I had another device running off a 2.4ghz wireless dongle - I did - a premium third party control controller. They said I should take this out as it could be affecting the Bluetooth connection via the BT-W4. I tried it and it worked. Clear sound, but I can't even use the microphone in the headset. It only works one way. The latter is the less ridiculous issue. Why Bluetooth connections are severely (by the way, the 2.4ghz controller worked perfectly well with no interruptions whilst running simaltaneously 👀) impaired by other commonly used signals is frankly ridiculous & is further testament to this tech still being problematic after all these years.

I will avoid at most costs.
 
Sep 11, 2023 at 9:56 AM Post #1,552 of 2,166
I am recovering from a serious injury since late 2019 & have approx one more year to go.

I've spent 95% of my the last almost 4 years on my bed & even in that scenario BT can be extremely frustrating - not always - but very much so. This issues counters some significant positives in your findings. I would highly doubt this is exclusive to PS5 as I've had similar scenarios that could well be down to this elsewhere. I bought a BT-W4 as I lost the dongle for my Audeze Maxwell. The audio was very spotty. Another user on here asked if I had another device running off a 2.4ghz wireless dongle - I did - a premium third party control controller. They said I should take this out as it could be affecting the Bluetooth connection via the BT-W4. I tried it and it worked. Clear sound, but I can't even use the microphone in the headset. It only works one way. The latter is the less ridiculous issue. Why Bluetooth connections are severely (by the way, the 2.4ghz controller worked perfectly well with no interruptions whilst running simaltaneously 👀) impaired by other commonly used signals is frankly ridiculous & is further testament to this tech still being problematic after all these years.

I will avoid at most costs.

ahh I see, I can agree fully in your usage case. I am fairly old school with my Wired approach thinking its almost as in it can't be beaten be it Wired Audio for quality listening or right down to good old Ethernet cables over Wifi, Wired just works!

But different user cases, having gone from Wired headphone set ups and now experiencing Wireless Bluetooth headphones I simply can't go back to Wired headphones even if the audio quality is not as good as Wired. But as we know Wireless comes with this type of headache also.
 
Sep 11, 2023 at 10:08 AM Post #1,554 of 2,166
ahh I see, I can agree fully in your usage case. I am fairly old school with my Wired approach thinking its almost as in it can't be beaten be it Wired Audio for quality listening or right down to good old Ethernet cables over Wifi, Wired just works!

But different user cases, having gone from Wired headphone set ups and now experiencing Wireless Bluetooth headphones I simply can't go back to Wired headphones even if the audio quality is not as good as Wired. But as we know Wireless comes with this type of headache also.

I just don't find myself bothered by wires at all - and if I'm walking about the house doing stuff, I'm perfectly happy with a pair of IEMs plugged into a Quadilex 5k or ifi Go Blu. If I really want to get into something, be it a game or film - or of course lose myself in some music - and have that sense of immersion... the users mindframe is hugely important & that's when you really want that level of immersion... in a stationary position.
 
Sep 14, 2023 at 3:18 AM Post #1,558 of 2,166
After 103+ pages I was ready to back to Wired headphones and Wired devices for another 40+ years, Bluetooth technology is mind numbing stuff.

But Bluetooth Wireless Audio and technology gives a level of freedom over the Wired Connectivity, you are not bogged down to one chair or one room, you can actually move around freely or visit the rest room or make a cup of tea and even eat and use your phone!

I believe its the future and its worth it, hopefully my above Summary post makes it a bit easier for new comers/visitors and anyone to make a bit of sense of it all.
I think this is why Apple stays out of the Bluetooth HQ audio quagmire and possibly why Bose seems reluctant to get started with it. It’s a fun challenge for geeks but average Joe might never know if he’s nailing the highest quality he should be able to get.
 
Sep 14, 2023 at 8:32 AM Post #1,559 of 2,166
Creative BT-L3 and BT-L4 are new transmitters sold optionally with Zen Hybrid Pro headphones to enable LE audio support. They don’t sell it separately, yet. I don’t think it’s update for BT-W5. It’s Creative. They are sly a**holes.

Emailed their Creative tech support asking if they plan on releasing LE & LC3 codecs to their existing Creative BT-W5 Adapter or others.

Lets see if by some miracle they even respond.
 

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