[Silent One]

 My WooAudio 6 Special Edition - fitted & kitted with 6SN7 tubes - ran so cool I had to check incoming voltage!

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

Okay,
I now have well over 200 hours on my Woo 6 modified with Mundorf silver oils.  The oils were used for everything that the Blackgates were used for, on the original modified versions of Woo 6... bypass, decoupling, etc.  From the beginning, the sound of the Woo 6 was noticeably better in every way:  Detail, low end, presence.  The midrange is so good that everything is balanced, all the the time.  As of now...well...it is something of a dream acheived for me....it is that good.  To clarify, I use Senn 650's to listen and I listen to mostly pop and rock. 
 
The Mundorfs sound fantastic.  There is a liquidity to the sound that plays well with the sound signature of the Woo 6.  I've burnt in now for about 215 hours or so, so I'm sure the sound will continue to improve, but I'd be happy with it either way...it sounds incredible.  The sound does remind me very much of the Vcap sound signature, with the addition of liquidity...I can't tell if it is the caps or the tubes giving off the vibe, but I suspect it is a combination.  Out of the box, I was disappointed in the Woo 6.  I was used to the slam and fullness of the imod/vcap dock/Stepdance.  The Woo lacked presence...or guts.  Everything was too subdued.  Now, running the imod/vcap dock into the Woo 6, it is a huge improvement over the Stepdance (as it should be).  The detail and slam are present (Much more detail than I had with Stepdance), along with the soft glow and flowing quality of tube sound.  The low end is balanced but never shy.  Just like the guys with the early modded Woo's said, a Woo tube amp really is the best of both worlds when modified:  Tubey without taking anything away from the presence of solid state.  It sounds so great that I daydream of it while I'm at work.  So far, knock on wood, there doesn't seem to be any issue with heat effecting the caps.  In fact, feeling the top when it has been on for a while, the temp doesn't seem to be higher than merely warm.  I highly recommend this upgrade.  One word: the guy who did this for me has been doing work like this for twenty years, and he said it was hard to get the caps in...a very tight squeeze.  Just FYI.  He was expecting the whole thing to be a one hour job, but it took him over two.
 
Now as to the tubes...Naturally, the tube are what really show (or DON'T show) the best qualities of the Mundorf Silver oil upgrade....Had the best luck so far with the combo of Sophia Princess rectifier with Brimar CV1988 type of 6SN7 drivers (Note:  You must buy a converter to get 6SN7 to fit).  At first, wanting the upfront quality and fullness of each instrument, I liked the RCA 6FD7.  For the same reason, the 1957 Mullard Holland GZ34 metal base rectifier was good.  But as the sound of the caps improved, I noticed that there was so much "push" in the modified sound of the Woo 6 that it was getting congested during busy passages...there would be instants of distortion, although few and far between...and the overall darkness and up-frontness, although these are qualities I normally like, drove me to nausea...it was that sharp of a coloring in the sound, and it struck me as unnatural.  Short answer...the problem was not the caps but the tubes.  The story:  Thinking the problem was in the pairing, I tried Princess with 6FD7 and Mullard Holland with 6SN7.  I tried the rectifiers individually also with the 6EW7s.  I discovered that Princess will never distort unless the original recording is distorted, and the low end and high end were as good as the GZ34.  Also, the Princess has the most distinction in staging...You can hear for instance if a tamborine is being played distant right side, or closer right side.  In addition, you can tell if the tamborine is being played below the microphone, above, or centered...and every instrument and voice is that way.  The GZ34 can't do that, to nearly as great of an extent...not with this set -up, anyway.  Does the Princess sound distant for pop/rock?  No...I discovered that, on recordings that were intended to sound up-close, it was true to the recording.  As for drivers...even with the Princess, the 6FD7s still didn't sound right...the up-frontness clipped or phased-out any of the fun staging...so no tamborine playing distant/low/right...and although I love thickness, the sound was too much so...and no fun anymore.  6EW7 didn't clip or color much, but all the balls were zapped from the music:  the drums may as well have been played with brushes instead of sticks.  So if adding too much taint to the original sound bothers you, go for the Princess with this mod, and use your play time trying out 6SN7s... then you will be avoided over-coloration and distortion.  Try looking at the 6SN7 threads, to save time and find good brands...some of them kinda stink.  Also, word of note:  The casing won't get as hot using the converters with 6SN7s...the tube is lifted up above it.  Since overheat is bad for Mundorf Silver Oils, this is worth noting.  As a lover of the V-cap dock, I can tell you the Mundorf silver oils sound spectacular as Woo 6 modifiers...guts, yes, presence...hell, yes.  Detail...Mmmm.  More than I've ever heard before...but they don't bug me.  The sound is very natural.  I was worried that I wouldn't be able to achieve greatness without blackgates...NNNGGGG!!  Wrong answer.     

This post was at once informative and enjoyable. Not to mention the tea... what an afternoon! 

 

[Austin Morrow]

I had to. Here's a quick slideshow I put together for the WA6 using the same pictures a couple threads back. I think I'm going to start doing this often just for fun. 
 

 

[Zeruel the 14th]

I'll try to keep microphonics in mind. So far the only microphonics I've ever heard is that thermal related 'tink' sound before the temps have stabilised in both convection and fan assisted. I'm running the stock tubes, but I've got some upgrade 'woo tubes' on the way and yet more fans, I'm curious to see how far I can get away with this. I'm inclined to think that fan noise will probably prove more annoying. (I've played with large desktop fans, the temp difference is minimal after a certain point where it appears you're removing waste heat from the envelope as fast as it is arriving as radiation, at this point, gains in temperature reduction appear minimal)

That'a great youtube slideshow, it even has stats and a price. If only people could throw their wallets at their screens...
Quote:

I wouldn't worry too much about actively cooling a tube amp.  They are designed to take the heat.  Plus, by design, tubes are microphonic.  If you blast air on the tubes, they will pick up some of that noise and will send them to your headphones.  It won't be much, but it's there.  Tubes are noisy enough as it is, and I don't see any point in making them noisier than they have to be.

 

 

[San Raal]

Quote:

Okay,
I now have well over 200 hours on my Woo 6 modified with Mundorf silver oils.  The oils were used for everything that the Blackgates were used for, on the original modified versions of Woo 6... bypass, decoupling, etc.  From the beginning, the sound of the Woo 6 was noticeably better in every way:  Detail, low end, presence.  The midrange is so good that everything is balanced, all the the time.  As of now...well...it is something of a dream acheived for me....it is that good.  To clarify, I use Senn 650's to listen and I listen to mostly pop and rock. 
 
The Mundorfs sound fantastic.  There is a liquidity to the sound that plays well with the sound signature of the Woo 6.  I've burnt in now for about 215 hours or so, so I'm sure the sound will continue to improve, but I'd be happy with it either way...it sounds incredible.  The sound does remind me very much of the Vcap sound signature, with the addition of liquidity...I can't tell if it is the caps or the tubes giving off the vibe, but I suspect it is a combination.  Out of the box, I was disappointed in the Woo 6.  I was used to the slam and fullness of the imod/vcap dock/Stepdance.  The Woo lacked presence...or guts.  Everything was too subdued.  Now, running the imod/vcap dock into the Woo 6, it is a huge improvement over the Stepdance (as it should be).  The detail and slam are present (Much more detail than I had with Stepdance), along with the soft glow and flowing quality of tube sound.  The low end is balanced but never shy.  Just like the guys with the early modded Woo's said, a Woo tube amp really is the best of both worlds when modified:  Tubey without taking anything away from the presence of solid state.  It sounds so great that I daydream of it while I'm at work.  So far, knock on wood, there doesn't seem to be any issue with heat effecting the caps.  In fact, feeling the top when it has been on for a while, the temp doesn't seem to be higher than merely warm.  I highly recommend this upgrade.  One word: the guy who did this for me has been doing work like this for twenty years, and he said it was hard to get the caps in...a very tight squeeze.  Just FYI.  He was expecting the whole thing to be a one hour job, but it took him over two.
 
Now as to the tubes...Naturally, the tube are what really show (or DON'T show) the best qualities of the Mundorf Silver oil upgrade....Had the best luck so far with the combo of Sophia Princess rectifier with Brimar CV1988 type of 6SN7 drivers (Note:  You must buy a converter to get 6SN7 to fit).  At first, wanting the upfront quality and fullness of each instrument, I liked the RCA 6FD7.  For the same reason, the 1957 Mullard Holland GZ34 metal base rectifier was good.  But as the sound of the caps improved, I noticed that there was so much "push" in the modified sound of the Woo 6 that it was getting congested during busy passages...there would be instants of distortion, although few and far between...and the overall darkness and up-frontness, although these are qualities I normally like, drove me to nausea...it was that sharp of a coloring in the sound, and it struck me as unnatural.  Short answer...the problem was not the caps but the tubes.  The story:  Thinking the problem was in the pairing, I tried Princess with 6FD7 and Mullard Holland with 6SN7.  I tried the rectifiers individually also with the 6EW7s.  I discovered that Princess will never distort unless the original recording is distorted, and the low end and high end were as good as the GZ34.  Also, the Princess has the most distinction in staging...You can hear for instance if a tamborine is being played distant right side, or closer right side.  In addition, you can tell if the tamborine is being played below the microphone, above, or centered...and every instrument and voice is that way.  The GZ34 can't do that, to nearly as great of an extent...not with this set -up, anyway.  Does the Princess sound distant for pop/rock?  No...I discovered that, on recordings that were intended to sound up-close, it was true to the recording.  As for drivers...even with the Princess, the 6FD7s still didn't sound right...the up-frontness clipped or phased-out any of the fun staging...so no tamborine playing distant/low/right...and although I love thickness, the sound was too much so...and no fun anymore.  6EW7 didn't clip or color much, but all the balls were zapped from the music:  the drums may as well have been played with brushes instead of sticks.  So if adding too much taint to the original sound bothers you, go for the Princess with this mod, and use your play time trying out 6SN7s... then you will be avoided over-coloration and distortion.  Try looking at the 6SN7 threads, to save time and find good brands...some of them kinda stink.  Also, word of note:  The casing won't get as hot using the converters with 6SN7s...the tube is lifted up above it.  Since overheat is bad for Mundorf Silver Oils, this is worth noting.  As a lover of the V-cap dock, I can tell you the Mundorf silver oils sound spectacular as Woo 6 modifiers...guts, yes, presence...hell, yes.  Detail...Mmmm.  More than I've ever heard before...but they don't bug me.  The sound is very natural.  I was worried that I wouldn't be able to achieve greatness without blackgates...NNNGGGG!!  Wrong answer.     

A fantastic and informative post Davidio, I was already inclined to try rolling out the coupling caps in my Woo5 with Mundorf Silver in Oil (I prefer the Mundorf sound over teflon caps in other gear I have), but your post has helped me make up my mind!
 
I agree with your asessment about the liquidity of the Mundorfs, they are great caps. My dealer raves about them and uses them in speaker crossovers all the time. they also got some great feedback in JonL's capacitor round-ups.
 

 

[davidio]

Can somebody help me with a question?
I'm thinking about taking the (huge) plunge and buying a pair of vintage Mullard CV181s.  I understand that they fit into the 6SN7 pin configuration, but that they run hotter then 6SN7 and use more power.  Does anyone know if the Woo 6 (circa 2012) can handle the Mullard ECC32/CV181?  Can anyone atest to whether or not they seem worthy of a $500 price tag per pair?

 

[Draygonn]

why not step up to a 6SE instead?

 

[Xcalibur255]

Quote:

Can somebody help me with a question?
I'm thinking about taking the (huge) plunge and buying a pair of vintage Mullard CV181s.  I understand that they fit into the 6SN7 pin configuration, but that they run hotter then 6SN7 and use more power.  Does anyone know if the Woo 6 (circa 2012) can handle the Mullard ECC32/CV181?  Can anyone atest to whether or not they seem worthy of a $500 price tag per pair?

I wouldn't try it with a 5U4G (3.0A) in the amp at the very least, it would likely overtax the power transformer.  With the 274B (2.0A) or a 5AR4 (1.9A) you might be okay, but I'd clear it with Jack first.

 

[SanJoseCanJunkie]

I have a question about the Woo upgrade options - it used to be that there were a lot more options for the "cheaper" amps (WA3, WA6, WA6SE, WA2, WA22), like teflon tube sockets, and other component upgrades (blackgate capacitors, etc.), but now they are not longer listed on the website.  Does Jack still do these, and if so, do you have to contact him directly now for prices?
 
It just seems a little strange that these aren't listed as default options, as I know the teflon tube sockets were a popular upgrade.

 

[Zeruel the 14th]

Admittedly I wondered this too. I dithered for so long on woo amps, on and off for years...but you're right...So what changed?
 
I think Woo Audio grew as a business, and perhaps keeping up with demand meant they couldn't nurse people's upgrade fetishes on most items. I seem to recall they didn't always have dealers, now they do and it's great. I got my WA2 from Addicted to Audio in Australia and last year. When Aussies caught wind of it Woo in Australia, the excitement seemed real, I was , myself, scratching my head wondering what they did to pull that off. Apparently they and others managed to become dealers for Woo.
 
The cheaper amps as you refer to them are probably their bread and butter items, I don't see things like the WA5 variants etc as big sellers, Costs aside, these things look like behemoths that impose themselves on your living space. They have the aesthetic subtlety of a brick, and a quick google on the tubes used would tell people buying one of these would entail some pretty serious long term costs. Those 300Bs aren't cheap, and it isn't a choice between cheap tubes and 'better' ones. If after all that, you can still justify paying for one (don't get me wrong, I've spent that much on PC rigs) then you have options to throw on if you wish.
 
Anyway, just my guess.
Quote:

I have a question about the Woo upgrade options - it used to be that there were a lot more options for the "cheaper" amps (WA3, WA6, WA6SE, WA2, WA22), like teflon tube sockets, and other component upgrades (blackgate capacitors, etc.), but now they are not longer listed on the website.  Does Jack still do these, and if so, do you have to contact him directly now for prices?
 
It just seems a little strange that these aren't listed as default options, as I know the teflon tube sockets were a popular upgrade.

 

 

[musicman59]

Quote:

Admittedly I wondered this too. I dithered for so long on woo amps, on and off for years...but you're right...So what changed?
 
I think Woo Audio grew as a business, and perhaps keeping up with demand meant they couldn't nurse people's upgrade fetishes on most items. I seem to recall they didn't always have dealers, now they do and it's great. I got my WA2 from Addicted to Audio in Australia and last year. When Aussies caught wind of it Woo in Australia, the excitement seemed real, I was , myself, scratching my head wondering what they did to pull that off. Apparently they and others managed to become dealers for Woo.
 
The cheaper amps as you refer to them are probably their bread and butter items, I don't see things like the WA5 variants etc as big sellers, Costs aside, these things look like behemoths that impose themselves on your living space. They have the aesthetic subtlety of a brick, and a quick google on the tubes used would tell people buying one of these would entail some pretty serious long term costs. Those 300Bs aren't cheap, and it isn't a choice between cheap tubes and 'better' ones. If after all that, you can still justify paying for one (don't get me wrong, I've spent that much on PC rigs) then you have options to throw on if you wish.
 
Anyway, just my guess.


 

Have you listened to a WA5 before?
They might be big, bulkey, brick looking (as you said) and the 300B tubes expensive plus you need two of each kinf of tubes (rectifier, driver and power) but the sound justifies everything. The WA5 IMO blows away any other Woo amplifier with the exeption of the $10,000 monoblock. I even like it better than the WES with the SR009.
When I was buying my amp I tried every single Woo and also I tried the Zana, Pinnacle and Mannley 300B. The WA5-LE suited my taste the best.
 
 

 

[San Raal]

Quote:

Have you listened to a WA5 before?
They might be big, bulkey, brick looking (as you said) and the 300B tubes expensive plus you need two of each kinf of tubes (rectifier, driver and power) but the sound justifies everything. The WA5 IMO blows away any other Woo amplifier with the exeption of the $10,000 monoblock. I even like it better than the WES with the SR009.
When I was buying my amp I tried every single Woo and also I tried the Zana, Pinnacle and Mannley 300B. The WA5-LE suited my taste the best.
 
 

 
Couldn't agree more!
 
IMO even a budget tube compliment such as the supplied Shugang 274B, some JJ300B and a pair of modest NOS Russian 1578 the Woo5 sounds superb. I really learnt what the K1000 could do once Id hooked them up to this beasty. I wish Id had the chance to audition as you did, but living in England meant I went with the opinions here at head-fi when purchasing in a mainly North American head-amp market.
 
The 300B may be an expensive tube due to its popularity in the speaker arena but the positive spin on that is plentiful new production varieties, on-line reviews and opinions and 1 year warranties.
 
I just spent $1200 on a pair of Takatsuki 300B's these are new production and although still burning in sound great, the Woo5 keeps pace with each and every upgrade you throw at it.
 
 

 

[thrak]

Quote:

Here are almost all the formats, in case anyone wants to use this as a wallpaper.
 
2560 x 1600
 

 
Thanks, Austin!  Went for the huge one.  I want to check it out on the new iPad and see that retina display in its full glory 

 

[Ahzari]

Question:
 
If I want to connect a record player without a phono preamp to my woo will I have to get a separate phono preamp before connecting to my WA6SE? I don't know much about turntables, but apparently you can't just connect them to an amp, you need a phono stage?
 
Thanks for the help.

 

[hodgjy]

Yes, you will need a phono stage.  The voltage coming out of the turntable is too low and it also needs RIAA equalization to sound true.
 
Quote:

Question:
 
If I want to connect a record player without a phono preamp to my woo will I have to get a separate phono preamp before connecting to my WA6SE? I don't know much about turntables, but apparently you can't just connect them to an amp, you need a phono stage?
 
Thanks for the help.