Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite
Mar 19, 2012 at 4:48 AM Post #19,726 of 42,298
I don't think the SP and EML rectifiers are military grade, but either way I figure the amp itself needs some cool down time? I always follow owners manuals and its proven a pretty good idea till now...
 
Mar 19, 2012 at 5:07 AM Post #19,727 of 42,298


Quote:
I find this bizarre.  My Super 7 soft starts everytime not matter if it's cooled down or not.  Why would the Woos not be able to do this?
 

This seems odd as well.  Many tubes were designed for military use and run all the time.  I can't imagine the DoD or Kremlin worrying about their tubes/amps during the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Sounds like lawyer jargon.
 



First sentence: If every mfg employed the same design, 
wink_face.gif
 would they be employed? Hit sillysally up for more clarity on his findings; past experiences in this regard.
 
Second sentence: Nothing odd about same tubes, different applications, in my view. I'd suggest that WooAudio is concerned about fire hazards. But useful jargon nonetheless.
 
Mar 19, 2012 at 5:26 AM Post #19,728 of 42,298


Quote:
Make sure not to run the WA6 too long without a break, this is straight out of the manual, I never did overnight burnings with this amp just based on that advise. 
 
Do Not: "Leave the amps running unattended. To use the amps safely, please allow it to cool down for every 8 hours of continuous play time." 



My personal preference would be to advise no more than four consecutive hours for the amp for more efficient break-in during the early stages. Why bother with such a regiment? More frequent warming and cooling of internal parts will allow for better conditioning when the amp is new. But this is my view...
 
Mar 19, 2012 at 5:39 AM Post #19,729 of 42,298


Quote:
I'll write a few sentences, just in minute, preliminary detail. When I first got the amp, I found it overly lush, boring, and way too dark. Didn't sound very good at all. However, things changed after an overnight burn in. Soundstage expanded both in terms of width and depth, with layering about the same. The top end seemed a tad more sparkly, but still slightly recessed with a bit of grain. The middle part of the spectrum was very warm, lush, and acoustics seem to come off as very well pronounced and full bodied, without any edginess or sibilance. Down low, the WA6 seemed weighty, decently well extended, and colored up the midrange quite a bit.
Again, not very detailed, but I still have a lot of listening to do.



In my experience, the Woo was pedestrian through 125 hours. Just sat there like any other car stuck in L.A. traffic. But once it started to emerge... 
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Mar 19, 2012 at 6:10 AM Post #19,730 of 42,298


Quote:
My personal preference would be to advise no more than four consecutive hours for the amp for more efficient break-in during the early stages. Why bother with such a regiment? More frequent warming and cooling of internal parts will allow for better conditioning when the amp is new. But this is my view...



+1
 
Mar 19, 2012 at 7:51 AM Post #19,731 of 42,298

I tried to follow that instruction when I got my WA2 late last year. In practice, it ends up staying on for about the same amount of time as my PC, but I do turn it off when I'm not in the house (PC stays on). I have USB powered fan sitting on top of the WA2 angled down to blow air on the tubes. It's amazing the temperature difference you get with forced air flow vs convection only. About 85 degrees Celsius at the envelope vs the 120 or so I was getting before (measure on Power Tubes).
 
Googling for cooling of Vacuum tubes turned up various DIY folks who claimed longer life or lower distortion with lower temperature. /Shrug. In any case, I don't like being blasted with heat while on my PC.
Quote:
I find this bizarre.  My Super 7 soft starts everytime not matter if it's cooled down or not.  Why would the Woos not be able to do this?
 

This seems odd as well.  Many tubes were designed for military use and run all the time.  I can't imagine the DoD or Kremlin worrying about their tubes/amps during the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Sounds like lawyer jargon.
 



 
 
Mar 19, 2012 at 8:22 AM Post #19,732 of 42,298
Tubes can take the heat, but capacitors, and transformers for that matter, aren't so forgiving.
 
Mar 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM Post #19,733 of 42,298
Question. I noticed that the biggest source of case temperature was the tubes and heat radiating off them in to the surrounding metal work (in particular the transfomer housing). Once I started stirring up air flow, the case temp went down by a chunk too. I can't measure the temperature on the transformer without popping the top off (not sure if I should). Is this reduced case temperature preventing additional heat radiating back in to other parts? That would be my suspicion but I can't confirm without lifting the lids.

I was planning on getting another quiet fan and blasting air in to the vents on the underside of the WA2. (I think I have a fan fetish, help)
Quote:
Tubes can take the heat, but capacitors, and transformers for that matter, aren't so forgiving.



 
 
Mar 19, 2012 at 10:12 AM Post #19,734 of 42,298
I wouldn't worry too much about actively cooling a tube amp.  They are designed to take the heat.  Plus, by design, tubes are microphonic.  If you blast air on the tubes, they will pick up some of that noise and will send them to your headphones.  It won't be much, but it's there.  Tubes are noisy enough as it is, and I don't see any point in making them noisier than they have to be.
 
Mar 19, 2012 at 10:23 AM Post #19,735 of 42,298
P.S.  I should say that tube amps are designed to take normal heat during normal use.  Excessive heat or prolonged use can limit the life of caps and trannies. 
 
Mar 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM Post #19,736 of 42,298


Quote:
I wouldn't worry too much about actively cooling a tube amp.  They are designed to take the heat.  Plus, by design, tubes are microphonic.  If you blast air on the tubes, they will pick up some of that noise and will send them to your headphones.  It won't be much, but it's there.  Tubes are noisy enough as it is, and I don't see any point in making them noisier than they have to be.



x2, as long as you have enough of clearance op top of the amp.
 
Mar 19, 2012 at 11:48 AM Post #19,737 of 42,298
At times I leave my amps on for 14-18 hours. Usually on weekends. Sometimes they're on as short as 2 minutes when I've changed my mind or I am interrupted to do something else. I spoke to an amp designer once (PrimaLuna) and asked him how long after turning his amp off should I wait before turning it on again and he said 2 minutes. Others say otherwise. Go figure. I just don't think about it. And the on/off 2-minute thing rarely happens.
 
 
Mar 19, 2012 at 2:35 PM Post #19,738 of 42,298
Okay,
I now have well over 200 hours on my Woo 6 modified with Mundorf silver oils.  The oils were used for everything that the Blackgates were used for, on the original modified versions of Woo 6... bypass, decoupling, etc.  From the beginning, the sound of the Woo 6 was noticeably better in every way:  Detail, low end, presence.  The midrange is so good that everything is balanced, all the the time.  As of now...well...it is something of a dream acheived for me....it is that good.  To clarify, I use Senn 650's to listen and I listen to mostly pop and rock. 
 
The Mundorfs sound fantastic.  There is a liquidity to the sound that plays well with the sound signature of the Woo 6.  I've burnt in now for about 215 hours or so, so I'm sure the sound will continue to improve, but I'd be happy with it either way...it sounds incredible.  The sound does remind me very much of the Vcap sound signature, with the addition of liquidity...I can't tell if it is the caps or the tubes giving off the vibe, but I suspect it is a combination.  Out of the box, I was disappointed in the Woo 6.  I was used to the slam and fullness of the imod/vcap dock/Stepdance.  The Woo lacked presence...or guts.  Everything was too subdued.  Now, running the imod/vcap dock into the Woo 6, it is a huge improvement over the Stepdance (as it should be).  The detail and slam are present (Much more detail than I had with Stepdance), along with the soft glow and flowing quality of tube sound.  The low end is balanced but never shy.  Just like the guys with the early modded Woo's said, a Woo tube amp really is the best of both worlds when modified:  Tubey without taking anything away from the presence of solid state.  It sounds so great that I daydream of it while I'm at work.  So far, knock on wood, there doesn't seem to be any issue with heat effecting the caps.  In fact, feeling the top when it has been on for a while, the temp doesn't seem to be higher than merely warm.  I highly recommend this upgrade.  One word: the guy who did this for me has been doing work like this for twenty years, and he said it was hard to get the caps in...a very tight squeeze.  Just FYI.  He was expecting the whole thing to be a one hour job, but it took him over two.
 
Now as to the tubes...Naturally, the tube are what really show (or DON'T show) the best qualities of the Mundorf Silver oil upgrade....Had the best luck so far with the combo of Sophia Princess rectifier with Brimar CV1988 type of 6SN7 drivers (Note:  You must buy a converter to get 6SN7 to fit).  At first, wanting the upfront quality and fullness of each instrument, I liked the RCA 6FD7.  For the same reason, the 1957 Mullard Holland GZ34 metal base rectifier was good.  But as the sound of the caps improved, I noticed that there was so much "push" in the modified sound of the Woo 6 that it was getting congested during busy passages...there would be instants of distortion, although few and far between...and the overall darkness and up-frontness, although these are qualities I normally like, drove me to nausea...it was that sharp of a coloring in the sound, and it struck me as unnatural.  Short answer...the problem was not the caps but the tubes.  The story:  Thinking the problem was in the pairing, I tried Princess with 6FD7 and Mullard Holland with 6SN7.  I tried the rectifiers individually also with the 6EW7s.  I discovered that Princess will never distort unless the original recording is distorted, and the low end and high end were as good as the GZ34.  Also, the Princess has the most distinction in staging...You can hear for instance if a tamborine is being played distant right side, or closer right side.  In addition, you can tell if the tamborine is being played below the microphone, above, or centered...and every instrument and voice is that way.  The GZ34 can't do that, to nearly as great of an extent...not with this set -up, anyway.  Does the Princess sound distant for pop/rock?  No...I discovered that, on recordings that were intended to sound up-close, it was true to the recording.  As for drivers...even with the Princess, the 6FD7s still didn't sound right...the up-frontness clipped or phased-out any of the fun staging...so no tamborine playing distant/low/right...and although I love thickness, the sound was too much so...and no fun anymore.  6EW7 didn't clip or color much, but all the balls were zapped from the music:  the drums may as well have been played with brushes instead of sticks.  So if adding too much taint to the original sound bothers you, go for the Princess with this mod, and use your play time trying out 6SN7s... then you will be avoided over-coloration and distortion.  Try looking at the 6SN7 threads, to save time and find good brands...some of them kinda stink.  Also, word of note:  The casing won't get as hot using the converters with 6SN7s...the tube is lifted up above it.  Since overheat is bad for Mundorf Silver Oils, this is worth noting.  As a lover of the V-cap dock, I can tell you the Mundorf silver oils sound spectacular as Woo 6 modifiers...guts, yes, presence...hell, yes.  Detail...Mmmm.  More than I've ever heard before...but they don't bug me.  The sound is very natural.  I was worried that I wouldn't be able to achieve greatness without blackgates...NNNGGGG!!  Wrong answer.     
 
Mar 19, 2012 at 3:12 PM Post #19,739 of 42,298
Quote:
Tubes can take the heat, but capacitors, and transformers for that matter, aren't so forgiving.


My WA22 barely gets warm, tubes transformers etc. Definitely not a space heater.

 
Quote:
At times I leave my amps on for 14-18 hours. Usually on weekends. Sometimes they're on as short as 2 minutes when I've changed my mind or I am interrupted to do something else. I spoke to an amp designer once (PrimaLuna) and asked him how long after turning his amp off should I wait before turning it on again and he said 2 minutes. Others say otherwise. Go figure. I just don't think about it. And the on/off 2-minute thing rarely happens.


I try to follow protocol when rolling etc. and let it cool for at least a half an hour between power ups, but I don't worry about it too much if I leave it on for too long. Sometimes I turn it on and let it warm up for a while before listening but not always. Occasionally it gets left on overnight, but not with music flowing through it. I don't worry about it because as I said it runs relatively cool.
 

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