[khollister]

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So found an old cd/DVD player hooked it up cant get the volume pass 12 noon cause it's too LOUD! With the turntable i can turn the wa2 to max and its not that loud. So.. Seems to be the phono stage. Not sure why since the output of my phono stage is pretty standard. Guess I have to live with the volume knob at 3 o clock. This cd has never sounded so good I can say that lol. Any body know what I can do to resolve this? New phono stage seems like a waste since the one I have works fine with my speaker setup.

 
What is your phono preamp? If you have a speaker setup, you must have a preamp with a volume control right? I'm missing what exactly your setup is - can you give us a run down on your equipment and how it is connected both for the Woo and your speaker setup?
 

 

[Clayton SF]

Hey, TheAudioDude: Happy Anniversary on your "slip on the ice with beer" escapade last year. I hope that your finger has healed up very well.

And once again, please look out for black ice. I hear it's still cold and icy where you are.

 

[musicman59]

Quote:

ASo found an old cd/DVD player hooked it up cant get the volume pass 12 noon cause it's too LOUD! With the turntable i can turn the wa2 to max and its not that loud. So.. Seems to be the phono stage. Not sure why since the output of my phono stage is pretty standard. Guess I have to live with the volume knob at 3 o clock. This cd has never sounded so good I can say that lol. Any body know what I can do to resolve this? New phono stage seems like a waste since the one I have works fine with my speaker setup.

 Macedonian hero and Skylab are correct and as you tested the probelm is that your input source provides a very low voltage. I can simulate the same issue if I drive my amplifier out of my iPod dock connector to the amplifier input compared to out of my DAC. The iPod has a lot lower voltage so I have to crank the volume up in the amp to reach the same level.

 

[Skylab]

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ASo found an old cd/DVD player hooked it up cant get the volume pass 12 noon cause it's too LOUD! With the turntable i can turn the wa2 to max and its not that loud. So.. Seems to be the phono stage. Not sure why since the output of my phono stage is pretty standard. Guess I have to live with the volume knob at 3 o clock. This cd has never sounded so good I can say that lol. Any body know what I can do to resolve this? New phono stage seems like a waste since the one I have works fine with my speaker setup.

 Macedonian hero and Skylab are correct and as you tested the probelm is that your input source provides a very low voltage. I can simulate the same issue if I drive my amplifier out of my iPod dock connector to the amplifier input compared to out of my DAC. The iPod has a lot lower voltage so I have to crank the volume up in the amp to reach the same level.

Right.  There really isn't anything you can do about it unless the phono preamp has a higher gain setting (not impedance - gain).  Some are pretty configurable in that regard.  But failing that, as long as you can make the volume loud enough by turning it up, and since you know the Woo is not defective, why worry?

 

[stufaro]

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ASo found an old cd/DVD player hooked it up cant get the volume pass 12 noon cause it's too LOUD! With the turntable i can turn the wa2 to max and its not that loud. So.. Seems to be the phono stage. Not sure why since the output of my phono stage is pretty standard. Guess I have to live with the volume knob at 3 o clock. This cd has never sounded so good I can say that lol. Any body know what I can do to resolve this? New phono stage seems like a waste since the one I have works fine with my speaker setup.

 Macedonian hero and Skylab are correct and as you tested the probelm is that your input source provides a very low voltage. I can simulate the same issue if I drive my amplifier out of my iPod dock connector to the amplifier input compared to out of my DAC. The iPod has a lot lower voltage so I have to crank the volume up in the amp to reach the same level.

Right.  There really isn't anything you can do about it unless the phono preamp has a higher gain setting (not impedance - gain).  Some are pretty configurable in that regard.  But failing that, as long as you can make the volume loud enough by turning it up, and since you know the Woo is not defective, why worry?

Skylab you are right, at this point I'm no longer worried as the WA2 clearly not the issue. I was just concerned that listening to the amp with the volume at say 3 or 4 o'clock was not good for the unit but I seems thats not the case.  
 
@khollister My phonostage acts as my pre-amp for my speaker setup but it does not have volume control but rather fixed output settings, the presets are marked:
 
MM 47kΩ
MC 100Ω
MC 220Ω
MC 1kΩ
 
The setting I have selected is MM47kΩ, since this is what my cartridge (Goldring Eroica H) is rated for, but I have changed it to MC100Ω and it solves the volume level issue and once again I cannot turn much past 12o'clock.
 
If anyone knows if its ok to leave the phonostage on this setting let me know. I can hear no sonic differences between either setting on the phonostage only more db gain.
 
Just to note I am not trying to blow my ears off here, and I don't listen at deafening volumes just want to be able to have more juice in the tank since currently I can turn to max volume and its not super loud seems like that should not be the case.  

 

[TheAudioDude]

Quote:

Hey, TheAudioDude: Happy Anniversary on your "slip on the ice with beer" escapade last year. I hope that your finger has healed up very well.

And once again, please look out for black ice. I hear it's still cold and icy where you are.

Haha thanks, Clayton!  I woke up today and was amazed it was a whole year since the accident.  You can barely tell anything happened to my finger now and I have probably 75% of my movement back. 

 

[Skylab]

@ Stufaro:
 
Well, it sounds like your phono pre changes gain AND impedance simultaneously.  That isn't ideal.  The Eroica is a relatively high-output moving coil, but it still musters just 2.5 mv, versus the 4-5 mv you get from a MM cartridge.  So you need more than the lowest gain setting, which your phono pre assigns to 47KOhm.  That is OK for MM's, but not really for your Eroica. 
 
But 100 ohms is almost certainly too low an input impedance for the Eroica.  I'm surprised it doesn't sound dark and slow.  Is there enough gain at the "MC 1KOhm" setting?

 

[kuben]

Hi what should i choose, WA22 with no upgrades or WA6-SE with all upgrades? Headphones are not ballanced and i wont use WA22 as preamp.
Which one would be better SQ wise? Headphones are HD800's.

 

[stufaro]

 
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@ Stufaro:
 
Well, it sounds like your phono pre changes gain AND impedance simultaneously.  That isn't ideal.  The Eroica is a relatively high-output moving coil, but it still musters just 2.5 mv, versus the 4-5 mv you get from a MM cartridge.  So you need more than the lowest gain setting, which your phono pre assigns to 47KOhm.  That is OK for MM's, but not really for your Eroica. 
 
But 100 ohms is almost certainly too low an input impedance for the Eroica.  I'm surprised it doesn't sound dark and slow.  Is there enough gain at the "MC 1KOhm" setting?

I have not tried that setting, once I get home I will try that one. I am not familiar with these settings too much as you can tell, if the gain is sufficient is that a setting I should stick with? I have A/Bed only the 47k MM and the 100MC setting and there is a slight difference and I would say its not as bright but its very minor. Vocals are not as clear. Anyone know another phono preamp I might want to look into getting I have had the Pro-ject tubebox for over 5-6 years it might be time for an upgrade if its not ideal for my new headphone amp as I am in love with the WA2 and its a keeper.

 

[Skylab]

At the end of the day, if it sounds good, it IS good.  So if you end up happy with the sound, then you are OK.  For sure there are better sounding phono preamps than the ProJect IMHO, but of course, they cost more money

 

[khollister]

It appears you have a number of fixed settings that both change the in put impedance as well as set the gain for either moving magnet (MM) or moving coil (MC). The MC100 setting is louder due to adding more gain necessary for a low output moving coil cartridge. Skylab is suggesting the MC10k setting which might have similar gain as the MC100, but a higher input impedance which wouldn't load the cartridge as much (which usually significantly changes the sound).
 
Of course, if you like the sound ...
 
I don't run vinyl anymore, so I'm not current on preamps. 
 
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@ Stufaro:
 
Well, it sounds like your phono pre changes gain AND impedance simultaneously.  That isn't ideal.  The Eroica is a relatively high-output moving coil, but it still musters just 2.5 mv, versus the 4-5 mv you get from a MM cartridge.  So you need more than the lowest gain setting, which your phono pre assigns to 47KOhm.  That is OK for MM's, but not really for your Eroica. 
 
But 100 ohms is almost certainly too low an input impedance for the Eroica.  I'm surprised it doesn't sound dark and slow.  Is there enough gain at the "MC 1KOhm" setting?

I have not tried that setting, once I get home I will try that one. I am not familiar with these settings too much as you can tell, if the gain is sufficient is that a setting I should stick with? I have A/Bed only the 47k MM and the 100MC setting and there is a slight difference and I would say its not as bright but its very minor. Vocals are not as clear. Anyone know another phono preamp I might want to look into getting I have had the Pro-ject tubebox for over 5-6 years it might be time for an upgrade if its not ideal for my new headphone amp as I am in love with the WA2 and its a keeper.

 

[jerico]

Has anyone noticed "resonance" on their amp, like when touching the sides (or the tubes)?  I initially found my 22 to be very quiet, but recently it's been noisier (unless I never really noticed it before).  If I tap the sides or top, I can hear the taps much more clearly than I recall initially.  My power tubes are also pretty loud when tapping them (various ones).  I tried changing tubes around (all of them) to see if it was a tube going excessively microphonic, but it doesn't look like faulty tubes.
 
Is this "normal" for these amps (my speaker amps - also tubed - are very quiet, both when tapping the chassis and the tubes)?

 

[Icenine2]

J,
 
I tried that about a month ago: chassis and then tubes individually.  I didn't notice anything at the time.

 

[jerico]

It is pretty weird. My volume pot is bait scratchy when I turn it - and the other night, I reached over to twist the volume and noticed a "brushy hum" as my hand reached across the amp (I was kind of laying down with the amp next to me, so had to reach across it to turn the volume). Ever since then, Ive been more aware of it being a bit noisier when touched.

I don't make a habit out of tapping the tubes of course, but still...!

 

[stufaro]

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At the end of the day, if it sounds good, it IS good.  So if you end up happy with the sound, then you are OK.  For sure there are better sounding phono preamps than the ProJect IMHO, but of course, they cost more money

 
Right on there Skylab. But seems silly that my phono stage connects fixed gain to MC cartridges and MM cartridges regardless of impedance, this all makes sense now I am a fast learner when someone breaks it down for me; thanks for the great information guys.
 
I might look to replace the phono stage for something that matches my cartridge and offers more gain. Dont feel I should have to sac. one for the other. This will fix everything the right way.  I love the sound on the 47k settingbut have not spend enough time to really A/B the settings on the stage which I will do.  Only spend a few hours with the amp so this is all sort of pre-mature just wanted to get to the volume mystery solved and I have so I can let this all rest and get down to breaking in the amp.