Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite
Jul 2, 2010 at 6:24 AM Post #4,096 of 42,298
Hi all,
 
I am a newcomer here.. I have a question. Can you upgrade your WA6 standard to WA6 SE? Or you should sell it first then buy the SE version.
 
I am still confused buying the standard version or go directly to SE version. Many thanks for your answer.
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 6:50 AM Post #4,097 of 42,298

 
Quote:
Hi all,
 
I am a newcomer here.. I have a question. Can you upgrade your WA6 standard to WA6 SE? Or you should sell it first then buy the SE version.
 
I am still confused buying the standard version or go directly to SE version. Many thanks for your answer.

You would have to buy the SE because you can not upgrade the WA6 to the WA6SE.
If you want to upgrade and have the funds skip the SE and go for the WA5LE.
 
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 6:58 AM Post #4,098 of 42,298
Quote:
 
You would have to buy the SE because you can not upgrade the WA6 to the WA6SE.
If you want to upgrade and have the funds skip the SE and go for the WA5LE.
 


Hi sillysally,
 
Thanks for your precious answer.. Wow WA5LE is pretty pretty expensive, it's around $2500, but WA5LE is so beautiful. Ok maybe i will take the SE version+Sophia Princess.
 
Once again, thanks for the answer
beerchug.gif

 
*arrgghh this hobby is really really expensive
biggrin.gif
*
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 7:34 AM Post #4,099 of 42,298

 
Quote:
Hi sillysally,
 
Thanks for your precious answer.. Wow WA5LE is pretty pretty expensive, it's around $2500, but WA5LE is so beautiful. Ok maybe i will take the SE version+Sophia Princess.
 
Once again, thanks for the answer
beerchug.gif

 
*arrgghh this hobby is really really expensive
biggrin.gif
*

 
Skip the Princess and get the EML 5U4G mesh, Jack has them.
Yes it can get pretty expensive but done right you can rival the tone quality of a 5 times more expensive speaker system.
cool.gif

 
btw I do have a WA6SE maxxed and a WA5LE maxxed+++
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 11:52 AM Post #4,100 of 42,298

Xcalibur255, thanks for this post.  I am also new to tubes and was wondering what kind of tube did what.  This was very helpful.
 
Quote:
 

I think you are doing the right thing as is.  Each person hears differently so the best way to find the tubes that suite you are to try a few and find out from personal experience.  I can give you general impressions, as can others, but we each have our own differing opinions.  You've chosen two good tubes to start with.  The Sylvania is going to have more energy on the top end...... more "sparkle" in the treble and probably a leaner sounding bass.  The RCAs have a slightly thicker and more lush sound, especially in the midrange.  It's all about finding the "flavor" you prefer so to speak.  Give them both time to break in (10 hours minimum before making comparisons between the two) and let yourself get used to the sound of each one.  What headphones you are using matters a LOT here too.  I avoid Sylvania tubes personally, not because they are bad, but because I use AKG headphones and the combination results in too much treble energy.  Many people like the Sylvania with Sennheiser and Denon cans, OTOH. 
 
If you can afford it, go for the Sophia or the EML rectifier.  It improves every aspect of the sound, like taking a general step up in performance all around.  Regardless of which drive tubes you use upgrading to a better rectifier has benefits.  I personally have found that the rectifier impacts soundstage, PRAT (pacing, rhythm and timing), and bass speed/impact a lot.  Rectifiers also seem to have the biggest influence on resolution and inner detail.  It doesn't seem to swing the tonal balance by a large amount.  The power/drive tubes influence tone a lot and can add or subtract a considerable amount of bass/mid/treble depending upon the type and brand of tube.  They also can affect PRAT and bass, but not to as large an extent as the rectifier.  They also affect soundstage less, though they still do somewhat and I've found the "character" of the sounstage changes a lot with different power tubes.  Like spatial perception of width vs height for example or how much perceivable space each instrument or note is given.  Attack and decay is heavily influenced by power tubes too, more so than the rectifier IMO.  Keep in mind these are only MY personal opinions.  You may hear something else entirely.  :)
 
Lastly, I suggest trying out a 6FD7 tube as well.  Whichever of your 6EW7s you like better, RCA or Sylvania, give that same brand a try in the 6FD7 so you can see the differences that tube makes.  I really like the 6FD7 sound myself, so long as you get a good one.  The older the tube the better, they tend to be more refined and have a more even tonal balance.
 
I wouldn't worry a lot at this point about some of the jargon.  Mention of silver on top of your RCA tube, for example, means the "getter" is on the top of the tube.  This is part of how a tube is made, and the reason buyers pay attention to it is because it can identify the vintage of the tube.  Some designs and vintages perform better than others.  This is why you hear things like silver top or clear top mentioned in a tube description, and you'll pick up on what this stuff means over time as you read more.  One important distinction is "fat bottle" vs "thin" or "tall" bottle.  A fat bottle version of the same type of tube will sound different.  I like fat bottles over thin bottles where it is applicable personally.  Some tubes were only made in one type, the 6DE7 for example is only thin bottle.  The 6EW7 and 6FD7 were made in both.
 
Just enjoy the music and have fun with it most importantly.



 
Jul 2, 2010 at 12:09 PM Post #4,101 of 42,298

 
Quote:
 
 
Skip the Princess and get the EML 5U4G mesh, Jack has them.
Yes it can get pretty expensive but done right you can rival the tone quality of a 5 times more expensive speaker system.
cool.gif

 
btw I do have a WA6SE maxxed and a WA5LE maxxed+++


I'll second the recommendation of the EML over the Sophia.  I didn't like the Sophia much at all - it tended to soften out dynamics and resolution to my ears.  The EML mesh is a great combo with the WA6SEM.
 
I guess I haven't "done it right" as suggested by SillySally.  I most certainly have never heard the WA6SEM come even close to rivaling my speakers.  I'm not sure what you mean by "tone quality" though, but I prefer listening to speakers by a long shot.  Cans I've used with the WA6SEM to form that opinion: HD800 (Currently), Grado GS1000 and HF2, W5000, K702, HD600, HD650, HE5.  Perhaps I just have not found the right combination, but as good as the WA6SEM is, and it is a damn fine amp, I have never heard it sounding as good as my speaker rig.  My speakers render far greater tonal accuracy and are far more engaging than virtually any headphone rig I've ever listened to (quite a few, though not as many as some here).  Speaker and headphone listening are simply entirely different experiences in my opinion...headphones will never be able to replicate listening to well-implemented speaker system.  I've said it before...the comparison is apples to oranges; the experience is entirely different. Just my .02 cents.  Regardless, high marks to the WA6SEM - it' a great amp.  Another one on your short list in the Woo line should be the WA22.
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 12:36 PM Post #4,102 of 42,298

My Sophia Princeess blew and Jack is going to replace it.  However I am wondering with the opinion here is of the Emission Lab 5U4G mesh plate rectifier vs. the Sophia?  It's a good opportunity to make a swap.  Would the Sophia or Emission Lab be more expensive?
 
I don't have much knowledge of either, but I did experience the Sophia as somehow softer that the stock rectifier when comparing them.
 
I'm also concerned about Sophia build quality as I have been reading about people blowing their tubes more than any other.
 
Quote:
 

I'll second the recommendation of the EML over the Sophia.  I didn't like the Sophia much at all - it tended to soften out dynamics and resolution to my ears.  The EML mesh is a great combo with the WA6SEM.
 
I guess I haven't "done it right" as suggested by SillySally.  I most certainly have never heard the WA6SEM come even close to rivaling my speakers.  I'm not sure what you mean by "tone quality" though, but I prefer listening to speakers by a long shot.  Cans I've used with the WA6SEM to form that opinion: HD800 (Currently), Grado GS1000 and HF2, W5000, K702, HD600, HD650, HE5.  Perhaps I just have not found the right combination, but as good as the WA6SEM is, and it is a damn fine amp, I have never heard it sounding as good as my speaker rig.  My speakers render far greater tonal accuracy and are far more engaging than virtually any headphone rig I've ever listened to (quite a few, though not as many as some here).  Speaker and headphone listening are simply entirely different experiences in my opinion...headphones will never be able to replicate listening to well-implemented speaker system.  I've said it before...the comparison is apples to oranges; the experience is entirely different. Just my .02 cents.  Regardless, high marks to the WA6SEM - it' a great amp.  Another one on your short list in the Woo line should be the WA22.



 
Jul 2, 2010 at 1:29 PM Post #4,103 of 42,298
I don't know about Sophia's tube quality or longevity as I only had mine for about a month.  I got it used so it was burned-in.  The sound quality is what turned me off.  Though it was nice on vocals, which is what I think others might be referring to as "lush", I found that it made the presentation overall a bit soft and slow, for lack of a better way to describe it.  The low end also seemed a bit compromised, especially in comparison to the EML.  That along with the comments I've already made, are what made me sell it after only a month. 
 
The EML is more expensive.  It is larger (taller) and made from thicker glass in my estimation.  They are a bit more difficult at times to source because they are made in small batches for import, so supply can be spotty.  I do believe Jack does sell them.  The regional distributor is George Lenz who can be reached at info@tubesusa.com where you can also buy them.  The EML tube is not strictly a 5U4G drop-in replacement in the one single detail that it does not want to see voltages of more than 5V - Jack assured me that his amps do comply with that, and I've been using one in my WA6SEm.  If you do use it in a component that is likely to fluctuate much above 5V at the rectifier stage you may see a shorter lifespan from the EML.  I believe this is documented in their white papers, though not positive. 
 
Quote:
My Sophia Princeess blew and Jack is going to replace it.  However I am wondering with the opinion here is of the Emission Lab 5U4G mesh plate rectifier vs. the Sophia?  It's a good opportunity to make a swap.  Would the Sophia or Emission Lab be more expensive?
 
I don't have much knowledge of either, but I did experience the Sophia as somehow softer that the stock rectifier when comparing them.
 
I'm also concerned about Sophia build quality as I have been reading about people blowing their tubes more than any other.
 

 



 
Jul 2, 2010 at 1:36 PM Post #4,104 of 42,298
Well guys, actually i have some confusions:
 
1. Is it worthy to spend around $200 to buy EML 5U4G mesh plate instead to buy NOS tubes?
 
2. How much the cost of WA6 SE Maxxed? And (again) is it worthy to upgrade WA6 SE to its MAXXED version instead to buy another amp with balanced I/O like Little Dot MK VIII SE/WA22/WA5LE?
 
Thanks.
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 2:05 PM Post #4,105 of 42,298

 
Quote:
Well guys, actually i have some confusions:
 
1. Is it worthy to spend around $200 to buy EML 5U4G mesh plate instead to buy NOS tubes?
 
2. How much the cost of WA6 SE Maxxed? And (again) is it worthy to upgrade WA6 SE to its MAXXED version instead to buy another amp with balanced I/O like Little Dot MK VIII SE/WA22/WA5LE?
 
Thanks.

 
1. It really depends upon what circuit you are putting it in.  As I said, it works brilliantly in the Woo.  The other application it is remarkable in, in my direct and extensive experience, is in the Modwright Transporter's analog output stage.  It is the best option I've found for that stage.  There is an very long thread on tube rolling in that particular component on the Audiocircle site.  The consensus there is that the only rectifiers that compete with the EML are the High Wycombe version of the GZ37 tube (NOS Mullard - about $250-300), and some folks like the the metal base 5AR4 tube which I think are highly overpriced due to their scarcity.  I have much more limited experience rolling tubes in the WA6SEM. Seamaster started a thread a while back on tube rolling in the WA22 that includes input on which rectifiers worked well for some folks there.  Ultimately whether it is worth it is really up to the user - whether you can hear the difference, and if so, how much is it worth to you. 
 
2. I believe the WA6SE with all the options Jack offers, would come to just under $2k.  I've only heard the WA22 after it had been modified by Dan Wright for Seamaster and it sounded outstanding.  If your can preferences tend towards more demanding cans I'd go that direction.  As far as stock WA22 vis WA6SEM, I could not comment as I have not heard the stock WA22.  The modded version seemed a bit more tight and fast and I'd probably choose it over the WA6SEM if there were no $ issues.  Not a huge margin to my ears though - I think Seamaster thought differently, but you'd have to ask him.  This was based on listening at a meet with entirely different front-end sources so take any comparisons with a bag of salt.  Perhaps other comparisons of the two Woo amps can be found with a search here.  Jack certainly makes some damn fine amps. 
 
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 2:20 PM Post #4,106 of 42,298


 
Quote:
2. I believe the WA6SE with all the options Jack offers, would come to just under $2k.  I've only heard the WA22 after it had been modified by Dan Wright for Seamaster and it sounded outstanding.  



What is a Seamaster?  I have had Dan Wright modify some equipment for me and he is really good.
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 2:38 PM Post #4,108 of 42,298


Quote:
 


What is a Seamaster?  I have had Dan Wright modify some equipment for me and he is really good.


Not what, who.  Seamaster is a Headfi member. 
 
Dan Wright (Modwright) does brilliant work on all levels.  His mods and products are excellent.  Disclaimer: he is a client of mine, but I have been using his stuff long before I started doing work for him.  The WA22 he did for Seamaster sounded great!  It was a custom mod, but I think he'd offer similar mods to anyone interested. 
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 3:57 PM Post #4,109 of 42,298
When do you think Seamaster will return to this forum? I haven't seen any posts from or heard anymore about his Modwright WA22 in quite some time. He is quite the connoisseur on matters of the electron tube, etc. I think the last I read about him he was busy concentrating on other projects.
 
Jul 2, 2010 at 4:58 PM Post #4,110 of 42,298


Quote:
When do you think Seamaster will return to this forum? I haven't seen any posts from or heard anymore about his Modwright WA22 in quite some time. He is quite the connoisseur on matters of the electron tube, etc. I think the last I read about him he was busy concentrating on other projects.


No clue.  I only met him at a meet the one time.  I don't know him otherwise.  I also don't really know where he's coming from in terms of his audio experience either (no idea if his involvement in audio/tubes is a long-term passion or flash in the pan but he certainly seems to be thorough in his rolling experiments with his Woo amp) - his listening preferences that I observed seem to push towards rock, while mine doesn't really include much rock at all, so we were coming from entirely different places as far as musical tastes (corresponding components that suit musical tastes can certainly differ widely IME).  His amp at the meet sounded great, and it was utilizing some good tubes as I recall.  I think most of the mods Dan did were in recapping it.  He may have outlined them on his thread.  You can always try a PM or email if he has a link. 
 

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