[Ciggavelli]

Does your amp sound good is the important question?

In high end audio you never pay for only the quality/price of the parts but mainly for the reasearch that went into it. (You know that anyways tho)

Not saying that I agree with such methods, and my feeling tells me that my own gear also has some cheap parts in it. In combination with everything it sounds magnificent tho and that's why I'm willing to pay the hefty price tag.

You could obviously try out alternatives, Eksonic Aeras, Mjölnir Carbon or something to get a feeling how your 3ES Stacks up.

@HiFiGuy528 , @WooAudio
The linked Post shows someone who opened up a 3ES and claims that it's essentially a 300b preamp with some solid state amplification afterwards.

Is that true?
Wouldn't a true 300B amp and some estat transformer have yielded better results?
You surely tested several Designs.

I like the way it sounds, but I have no other frame of reference. I’ll be able to hear more at Can Jam NYC in a couple of weeks.

What gets me, if the pictures are to be believed, is that the 3ES is not a true 300B amp. If that’s true, I was lied to by them. I bought the 3ES in part because it was a 300B amp. If that is not true, I’m going to feel very mislead. Also I assumed that a $14K amp would use premium parts, not cheap solid state ones that go for $100 and can be found in entry level Stax amps. Either way, I really hope Woo Audio responds and clears up any misunderstandings from that thread, if there are in fact any. If everything in that thread is true, I will be very disappointed and would probably never buy a Woo Audio product again and would take every chance possible to tell everybody that was considering a Woo Audio amp to think again and not trust them. Their reputation is on the line. It’s serious.

 

[AnalogEuphoria]

I like the way it sounds, but I have no other frame of reference. I’ll be able to hear more at Can Jam NYC in a couple of weeks.

What gets me, if the pictures are to be believed, is that the 3ES is not a true 300B amp. If that’s true, I was lied to by them. I bought the 3ES in part because it was a 300B amp. If that is not true, I’m going to feel very mislead. Also I assumed that a $14K amp would use premium parts, not cheap solid state ones that go for $100 and can be found in entry level Stax amps. Either way, I really hope Woo Audio responds and clears up any misunderstandings from that thread, if there are in fact any. If everything in that thread is true, I will be very disappointed and would probably never buy a Woo Audio product again and would take every chance possible to tell everybody that was considering a Woo Audio amp to think again and not trust them. Their reputation is on the line. It’s serious.

In the @GoldenOne video review of WA33 woo told not to open it, is the same thing happening there as well I wonder.

 

[Ciggavelli]

In the @GoldenOne video review of WA33 woo told not to open it, is the same thing happening there as well I wonder.

Maybe. I’ve heard other traditional headphone amps and really like the way the WA33 sounds though. I liked it so much, that is what attracted me to the 3ES. I haven’t heard other estat amps though, so I don’t know how the 3ES stacks up. I thought I could just buy one estat amp and call it quits, but I guess it’s not that easy. If I like the way the T2 sounds compared to my 3ES, I’m going to buy a T2. I’m already preparing myself for the cost if it comes to that. I really hope the 3ES is not as bad as those people claim (would love to hear from Woo Audio). I don’t want to have wasted $10K+ on the 3ES Elite.

 

[joseph69]

Maybe. I’ve heard other traditional headphone amps and really like the way the WA33 sounds though. I liked it so much, that is what attracted me to the 3ES. I haven’t heard other estat amps though, so I don’t know how the 3ES stacks up. I thought I could just buy one estat amp and call it quits, but I guess it’s not that easy. If I like the way the T2 sounds compared to my 3ES, I’m going to buy a T2. I’m already preparing myself for the cost if it comes to that. I really hope the 3ES is not as bad as those people claim (would love to hear from Woo Audio). I don’t want to have wasted $10K+ on the 3ES Elite.

With all due respect, if you blindly purchased the 3ES and are now trying to hear how the 3ES stacks up to the T2 (or any other estat amp) this definitely wasn't the way to go about it. And again, the question is how do you like how it sounds, not "I really hope the 3ES is not as bad as those people claim"? What is it bad? If so, what is it that is exactly bad about it?

And, if you hadn't read that claim would you be questioning anything about the 3ES, or would you still be enjoying it as you were? Again, I've owned and currently own both amplifier designs and have had nothing but pleasure from both, so I'm not taking any sides here, at all. I'm just trying to say you're letting someone else change the way you feel about something you enjoy due to a claim, even if it is true or not.

It's normal to want to try another amp and compare, as well as possibly liking another amps sound better regardless of cost, but you can't blame a company for this because you were the one who made the final decision to go with the 3ES blindly. You may very well like the sound of something else, and if that's the case, then sell the 3ES and buy it like you've mentioned, but don't let anyone take your enjoyment from something away from you.

 

[Slade01]

With all due respect, if you blindly purchased the 3ES and are now trying to hear how the 3ES stacks up to the T2 (or any other estat amp) this definitely wasn't the way to go about it. And again, the question is how do you like how it sounds, not "I really hope the 3ES is not as bad as those people claim"? What is it bad? If so, what is it that is exactly bad about it?

And, if you hadn't read that claim would you be questioning anything about the 3ES, or would you still be enjoying it as you were? Again, I've owned and currently own both amplifier designs and have had nothing but pleasure from both, so I'm not taking any sides here, at all. I'm just trying to say you're letting someone else change the way you feel about something you enjoy due to a claim, even if it is true or not.

It's normal to want to try another amp and compare, as well as possibly liking another amps sound better regardless of cost, but you can't blame a company for this because you were the one who made the final decision to go with the 3ES blindly. You may very well like the sound of something else, and if that's the case, then sell the 3ES and buy it like you've mentioned, but don't let anyone take your enjoyment from something away from you.

Regardless of whether or not the 3ES still sounds great, if what @Ciggavelli says is true, Woo Audio - it certainly seems a little deceptive (whether intentional or not). Their description of the 3ES - they don't exactly make any direct claims either way that the design/implementation is a hybrid, or a full tube design. They only state that this amp shares the "the same architecture as our flagship WA33 dynamic headphone amplifier in a two-unit design where the top unit is an amplifier docking on the power supply using our internal coupling architecture (ICA) technology." This is where I find it a bit misconstrued, because I know the WA33 (based on Woo Audio marketing) is a full tube design, so I would tend to believe the 3ES is the same, because the alleged "architecture" is the same (and in both obvious physical design, and the inference would follow to have the same implementation as well). In principle, I would be upset too if I thought I had bought a full tube amp, and instead got a hybrid. It's kind of hard to unsee/un-know something once its done...

 

[Ciggavelli]

With all due respect, if you blindly purchased the 3ES and are now trying to hear how the 3ES stacks up to the T2 (or any other estat amp) this definitely wasn't the way to go about it. And again, the question is how do you like how it sounds, not "I really hope the 3ES is not as bad as those people claim"? What is it bad? If so, what is it that is exactly bad about it?

And, if you hadn't read that claim would you be questioning anything about the 3ES, or would you still be enjoying it as you were? Again, I've owned and currently own both amplifier designs and have had nothing but pleasure from both, so I'm not taking any sides here, at all. I'm just trying to say you're letting someone else change the way you feel about something you enjoy due to a claim, even if it is true or not.

It's normal to want to try another amp and compare, as well as possibly liking another amps sound better regardless of cost, but you can't blame a company for this because you were the one who made the final decision to go with the 3ES blindly. You may very well like the sound of something else, and if that's the case, then sell the 3ES and buy it like you've mentioned, but don't let anyone take your enjoyment from something away from you.

Listen, I get what you are saying, but I don't really need you lecturing me. It was either blindly buy the 3ES or blindly buy the T2. Everything would have been a blind buy. I don't live in a place where I can freely try out exotic estat amps. I liked the Woo Audio WA33 a lot, so I went the Woo Audio route. I was going to listen to the T2 prior to this 3ES situation anyway. It's just that if the accusations are true, I will feel a bit "betrayed" by Woo Audio. Like I wish I knew this information before making the purchase. But alas, it didn't exist. I do blame Woo Audio if the accusations are true. It says nowhere on their site that it's a 300B pre amp and a solid state energizer. That is false advertising if true.

 

[ThanatosVI]

Listen, I get what you are saying, but I don't really need you lecturing me. It was either blindly buy the 3ES or blindly buy the T2. Everything would have been a blind buy. I don't live in a place where I can freely try out exotic estat amps. I liked the Woo Audio WA33 a lot, so I went the Woo Audio route. I was going to listen to the T2 prior to this 3ES situation anyway. It's just that if the accusations are true, I will feel a bit "betrayed" by Woo Audio. Like I wish I knew this information before making the purchase. But alas, it didn't exist. I do blame Woo Audio if the accusations are true. It says nowhere on their site that it's a 300B pre amp and a solid state energizer. That is false advertising if true.

True the site describes it as "The 3ES employs two 6SN7 driver tubes pushing four 300B power tubes as the output stage"

It's not "in the output stage (along with some solid state amplification)" but as the output stage implying that it's all there is to it.

I mean personally I won't knock it if it sounds great, but the Marketing is misleading at best...

 

[joseph69]

Listen, I get what you are saying, but I don't really need you lecturing me. It was either blindly buy the 3ES or blindly buy the T2. Everything would have been a blind buy. I don't live in a place where I can freely try out exotic estat amps. I liked the Woo Audio WA33 a lot, so I went the Woo Audio route. I was going to listen to the T2 prior to this 3ES situation anyway. It's just that if the accusations are true, I will feel a bit "betrayed" by Woo Audio. Like I wish I knew this information before making the purchase. But alas, it didn't exist. I do blame Woo Audio if the accusations are true. It says nowhere on their site that it's a 300B pre amp and a solid state energizer. That is false advertising if true.

I'm just trying to ease your mind if you're enjoying the sound of the 3ES and to never mind what ANYONE has to say about its design...because obviously it wasn't a problem before IF THIS CLAIM IS EVEN TRUE. Oh, and EVERYONE know the T2 is one of the KINGS of electrostatic headphone amps (if not the king) so you should've done your due diligence and gone that route. Done.

 

[joseph69]

@Slade01
IF this claim is true.

 

[Contrails]

If you look up a member by the name of isquirrels, he mentions in this thread (2017 I think) of owning the WA234 mk1 monos and opening them up and wasn't too happy with what he saw. He sent the amps back to Woo, only to receive them back with proprietary screws.

 

[joseph69]

If you look up a member by the name of isquirrels, he mentions in this thread (2017 I think) of owning the WA234 mk1 monos and opening them up and wasn't too happy with what he saw. He sent the amps back to Woo, only to receive them back with proprietary screws.

Some people pay retail ($6K) for the Susvara and absolutely love it for its sound quality, right? I'm sure you've seen the inside of the Susvara, no? Does this stop people from buying it and loving its sound? You don't list your gear...do you own the Susvara by any chance?
I understand clearly that @Ciggavelli is upset because maybe Woo mislead him with their information (which has nothing to do with the sound) but is a fact?.

Also, on the other hand, I don't hear @Ciggavelli complaining about his $18K+ WA33 EE w/JPS wiring which is also "crap". Apologies to everyone for going off topic. I'm done with this discussion because I don't seem to be getting my point across that it is the sound YOU are personally enjoying, or how easy it is for people to be persuaded in to believing they all of the sudden own "crap". Everything is "crap" according to the "crew", so everybody, sell all your gear, it's nothing but overpriced "crap".

 

[joseph69]

PS: I'm very familiar with the member who purchased the WA234 Mono Blocks and his Hi-Fi journey from back then, and he seemed to have loved the sound of Woo amps as well.

 

[Slade01]

@Slade01
IF this claim is true.

Yeah - that is the million dollar question for sure. It would be egregious for sure IF it turns out to be true.

 

[muckyfingers]

I'm just trying to ease your mind if you're enjoying the sound of the 3ES and to never mind what ANYONE has to say about its design...because obviously it wasn't a problem before IF THIS CLAIM IS EVEN TRUE. Oh, and EVERYONE know the T2 is one of the KINGS of electrostatic headphone amps (if not the king) so you should've done your due diligence and gone that route. Done.

I think what it boils down to, is the buyer purchased a “Tube Amplifier”, thinking it was solely a tube amplifier. While also paying quite a premium price, for said type of amplifier

What the actual amplifier looks to be, is a hybrid of a tube pre amplifier being fed into a solid state amplifier for final sound output. Which is not what the buyer thought he was purchasing, and not what the sales information leads one to believe.

 

[joseph69]

I think what it boils down to, is the buyer purchased a “Tube Amplifier”, thinking it was solely a tube amplifier. While also paying quite a premium price, for said type of amplifier

What the actual amplifier looks to be, is a hybrid of a tube pre amplifier being fed into a solid state amplifier for final sound output. Which is not what the buyer thought he was purchasing, and not what the sales information leads one to believe.

Yes, I totally understand he feels mislead.