Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite
Nov 6, 2010 at 9:34 AM Post #6,571 of 42,298


Quote:
Yeah I am all about <slightly> used tubes, and seconds when available as long as they test good and are well matched. This NOS stuff gets a little ridiculous, and it will only get worse IMO.



This is really a good strategy.  A lot of tubes that are sold as NOS really aren't anyway.  If you're going to buy a lot of tubes, and want to experiment, buying one of the less expensive tube testers, like my B&K 606, and then buying tubes that say "test as new"  or "test strong" can save you BUCKETS of money.  I have bought a fair number of "NOS" tubes, sure, but I buy them from known, super-trustworthy tube dealers.  On EBay, I won't pay the premium prices.  I buy tubes that I can get cheaper.  As long as they test good when I get them, then all is well, and if they don't, I have always been able to get a replacement or refund (that is the value of having the tester).
 
Nov 6, 2010 at 12:26 PM Post #6,572 of 42,298

X - Your analysis of the TX vs RCA was very helpful to me, and I can relate to it.
 
I also share your perspective about mating rectifiers with drivers, there is a strong relationship there.  I've often felt there was a relationship there.  As I am new to tube rolling, it's really helpful to get these perspectives from others.
 
Maybe I could ask a few other questions, if you don't mind.
 
I'm really liking the EML 5U4G, and am thinking of building my system around it.  My only comparison is the stock rectifier that Jack ships with the WA22 and the Sophia.  I found the Sophia to be edgier and less revealing of detail then the EML.  My current rectifiers are the Shuquanq Princess, and while better than the stock rectifier Jack sends, I am not sure where the Princess fits in the rectifier universe.  Where does the Princess fit in relation to the Tung-sol and RCA's?
 
Thanks.
 
Quote:
 

The round plates I assume, right?  I'm actually kind of hesitant to compare because I was listening to the greyglass when my EML tube was still new.  I intend to pair that combo again here shortly and listen some more.  The round plate tung sol is in a league of its own though.  I had to recalibrate a bit to enjoy my other tubes again after taking them out.
 
The presentation is quite different between the two.  The RCA exhibits a weight and thickness that contrasts sharply with the tung sol which comes off as sounding light and delicate.  The fascinating part is how the TS does this without sounding slow or feeling like it is lacking in drive.  There is a sense of finesse present that no other tube I've heard matches.  The detail comes in layers where you only hear a flat plane of sound with other tubes.  Tonally the greyglass RCA is more forward in the lower midrange, and has much less air from the upper midrange through the treble region.  High notes don't project like they do on the TS.  I think the TS midrange is more accurate, but the RCA suits some vocals well by lending added weight.  Both have nice detail and speed.  I think the RCA wins on PRAT by a little bit, but the TS has superior resolution and microdetail.  More than that it is all in how things are presented where the TS really excels.
 
Truthfully its really hard to put into words what I want to say for comparison.  They sound very different, but explaining that in words is hard for some reason.  The tung sol is better, no question, but it is also way more expensive so it ought to be.  I want to mention again my impressions of the greyglass are not fresh either so take this with a grain of salt.  That, and I actually thought the greyglass RCA didn't have great synergy with my EML 274B.  The detail got better, and everything gained control but they suffered tonally.  The midrange loses much of the warmth this tube is known for, but again I think I need to break them in more and try again now that the EML has more hours on it.  I've found that rectifier synergy really matters a lot in general.  Some rectifiers I have which I wrote off as bad sounding have turned out to be pretty nice with different driver tubes paired up.  It's all about identifying the characteristics in a tube you like and trying to pair those up with a tube whose characteristics will be complementary.  Or you could just randomly try stuff and be surprised when a combo sounds good, like I've been doing for the most part. 
smily_headphones1.gif

 
I also have some t-plate tung sols which are more in the same league with the greyglass.  These are basically tung sol mouse ear tubes only they don't actually have the mouse ears.  If I had to pick one or the other I would take this tung-sol too, but again this really reminds me how much the rectifier can change things.  Without the EML my answer would be the opposite.  I really like how the greyglass RCA sounds on my 5R4GY (my previous regular use rectifier before the 274B) and thought the tung sol t-plates sounded detailed but dry and off sounding somehow.  The EML literally fixed everything I didn't like about those tung sol tubes, and took something away from the greyglass in terms of portraying emotion in the music in exchange.
 
Something I would say in general is that I find myself just preferring the Tung Sol sound regardless of which particular tube it is.  They have a sense of balance and neutrality that I've come to prefer more and more over time.  Of course my EML is not losing its place in the rectifier slot on any long term basis, but I've been really surprised at how much I like the all Tung Sol combo I was running for the last few days (TS 5V4G and TS 6SN7GT T-Plate).
 
In the end all you can do is try things out and see what you prefer.  What I like might not be what you like, and what headphones we're listening on is a huge x-factor too.



 
Nov 6, 2010 at 12:51 PM Post #6,573 of 42,298
 
Quote:
Where does the Princess fit in relation to the Tung-sol and RCA's?

 
X2, I would love to read some comparative opinions on the Shunguang rectifiers as well, and please add the EML's to the mix 
smile.gif

 
Nov 6, 2010 at 10:36 PM Post #6,575 of 42,298
Glad my rambling was useful. 
smily_headphones1.gif

 
Sadly I never owned the Sophia Princess so I can't really offer a comparison there.  Before EML became popular it was often regarded as the tube to have for the Woo amps, and was considered better than the majority of the NOS tubes.  I'm just relaying secondhand opinions here though.  It's reputation for being forward sounding kept me away and I upgraded directly to the EML.  This was pretty much always my plan, so I was only using cheapo rectifiers until I could make the upgrade.  The RCA 5R4GY I paid $8 for served me well though I must say.
 
The 6SN7 upgrade was really the key for me personally, as I'm finding that rectifiers I had a low opinion of before sound pretty nice now that I'm trying them again.
 
Nov 6, 2010 at 10:55 PM Post #6,576 of 42,298

 
Quote:
This is really a good strategy.  A lot of tubes that are sold as NOS really aren't anyway.  If you're going to buy a lot of tubes, and want to experiment, buying one of the less expensive tube testers, like my B&K 606, and then buying tubes that say "test as new"  or "test strong" can save you BUCKETS of money.  I have bought a fair number of "NOS" tubes, sure, but I buy them from known, super-trustworthy tube dealers.  On EBay, I won't pay the premium prices.  I buy tubes that I can get cheaper.  As long as they test good when I get them, then all is well, and if they don't, I have always been able to get a replacement or refund (that is the value of having the tester).


I agree, that is for a guy like you that has a lot of experience and a very well calibrated tube tester and has a very good understanding on how to use the tube tester.
 
But for most folks its not really a good idea, by the time you buy a well calibrated tube tester plus learn how to use it and 100s of tubes like you, you could have gotten the best of tubes for your amp and saved money. Plus the fact that if you really don't know what you are doing with tubes and adapters you run the risk of harming your amp.
Also there is your source player/DAC and headphones to consider. More than likely these components will make a bigger impact on the sound quality than tubes.
 
There is only so much you can change the tone of a tube amp with tubes. The better the tube amp and combination of tubes the better the sound, its that simple. There is no silver bullet tube that will make a $2000 amp sound like a $5000 amp.
 
Nov 7, 2010 at 12:28 AM Post #6,577 of 42,298
That's probably fair
smily_headphones1.gif

 
Nov 7, 2010 at 3:05 PM Post #6,578 of 42,298


Quote:
Wow.  That is really high.  I got my pair off eBay for just over $50 bucks.  The trick to these is to watch auctions carefully.  Sometimes if they word the description strangely or cannot prove the tubes are NOS the auction will be largely ignored.  When I was watching this tube most auctions for the good tubes were ending around the hundred dollar mark, but sometimes you get lucky and they end lower like mine did.  What other tubes are selling at the time also matters a LOT.  If you are bidding in a greyglass pair and they are the only ones listed at the time it will be bid on by every person on eBay who is looking for that kind of tube.  But if there are several auctions for greyglass going on at the same time it spreads the interest around and everybody ends up bidding less aggressively as a result.
 
Either way the max I would ever pay for a pair of these is $100, unless they were pre-1944 and in absolutely pristine condition.  Don't be afraid to compromise a bit.  For example if they test a bit below NOS they'll go really cheap and so long as the tube was tested properly it likely will have nearly all of its usable life left still.  They generally last for several thousand hours, and in the Woo amps even longer so they will give years of service even if they aren't true NOS tubes.  I think of it has not having to deal with breaking them in personally. 
smily_headphones1.gif

You are right. I got mine for $90 the pair form a reputable source in ebay.
 
Moon Audio Stay updated on Moon Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/MoonAudio/ https://twitter.com/MoonAudio https://instagram.com/moonaudio https://www.moon-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@moon-audio sales@moon-audio.com
Nov 8, 2010 at 9:52 AM Post #6,579 of 42,298


Quote:
Glad my rambling was useful. 
smily_headphones1.gif

 
Sadly I never owned the Sophia Princess so I can't really offer a comparison there.  Before EML became popular it was often regarded as the tube to have for the Woo amps, and was considered better than the majority of the NOS tubes.  I'm just relaying secondhand opinions here though.  It's reputation for being forward sounding kept me away and I upgraded directly to the EML.  This was pretty much always my plan, so I was only using cheapo rectifiers until I could make the upgrade.  The RCA 5R4GY I paid $8 for served me well though I must say.
 
The 6SN7 upgrade was really the key for me personally, as I'm finding that rectifiers I had a low opinion of before sound pretty nice now that I'm trying them again.


So, is your thinking that the rectifier is the lynch pin of the amplifier?
 
Have you or can anybody speak to the differences between the RCA VT231 and the Tung-Sol round plate?
 
Thanks.
 
 
Nov 8, 2010 at 12:44 PM Post #6,581 of 42,298

JC you are my HERO!  I am working my way towards having the same tubes as you.  Got the EML and am working on the Tung-sol and GEC's!
 
Tell me, where did you get your WA22 modified?  How much did it cost, and what improvements did you hear?
 
Quote:
It is rainy day in Boston, working from home and I'm bored.  So perfect time to take some pics of my WA22 and her friends.  Hope you like it...
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



 
Nov 8, 2010 at 12:58 PM Post #6,582 of 42,298


Quote:
JC you are my HERO!  I am working my way towards having the same tubes as you.  Got the EML and am working on the Tung-sol and GEC's!
 
Tell me, where did you get your WA22 modified?  How much did it cost, and what improvements did you hear?
 

 

 
I got my WA22 used, it was modded by Dannie01.  I can't give you a comparison since the time I listened to a stock WA22 and modded WA22 is over 6 months apart but I'm impress with it every time I turn it on.  From memory, I think the mid and more refine/smoother.  Slight bass extensions but the most I notice is the soundstage is wider and added depth.
 
 
Nov 8, 2010 at 2:31 PM Post #6,583 of 42,298


Quote:
 
I got my WA22 used, it was modded by Dannie01.  I can't give you a comparison since the time I listened to a stock WA22 and modded WA22 is over 6 months apart but I'm impress with it every time I turn it on.  From memory, I think the mid and more refine/smoother.  Slight bass extensions but the most I notice is the soundstage is wider and added depth.
 


Who is Dannie01?  Does he do modifications professionally or did he send it out?
 
Thanks.
 
 
Nov 8, 2010 at 3:23 PM Post #6,584 of 42,298


Quote:
Who is Dannie01?  Does he do modifications professionally or did he send it out?
 
Thanks.
 

 
He is the OP of this thread.  He does it him self with very good workmanship but he does not offer this service, I just happen to be the lucky guy to buy his modded WA22.  He is on to WA5LE now and busy modding it, he is in hiding,..
 
 
Nov 8, 2010 at 4:34 PM Post #6,585 of 42,298


Quote:
 
He is the OP of this thread.  He does it him self with very good workmanship but he does not offer this service, I just happen to be the lucky guy to buy his modded WA22.  He is on to WA5LE now and busy modding it, he is in hiding,..
 


LOL.  Ok, well, if you ever speak to him, can you ask him to send me a PM?  I'd like to talk to him about his WA22 mods.
 
Thanks.
 
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top