[ralphp@optonline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Foobar Crossfeed plugins are not very good IMHO. Too much detail is lost and some sounds especially ambience related are squeezed to center. Quote of the month!

That's why I use Headroom amps and not plugins.

And thanks for the compliment.

 

[Dexdexter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Both Alberto & Ralph use crossfeed extensively. I don't have such devices. I guess I'm already starting behind the 8-ball .

I've never, ever heard crossfeed in my life, James, and yet I've been able to enjoy my Ultrasones despite it all!

Just remember what this Ultrasonista sez:

"Crossfeed? We don't need no stinkin' Crossfeed!!!"

 

[jpelg]

Please read the post retraction below first (original content left as permanent proof of my idiocy)

Funny, Dex. LOL!

Well, I arrived home and couldn't resist plugging them into my system immediately (c'mon, you knew that already didn't you, you sly dogs?). All I can say is: "Veeerrrrryyyyy peculiar!" I really, really hope that burn-in makes these do a complete "180", and turns this (currently) sows ear into a purse. Because the sound right now is truly bizarre. Remember when you were a kid, and you tied two aluminium cans together with a string, and tried talking to your best friend through it? That would sound better at this point. I kid you not. All frequencies are muffled, and the midrange (female vocals, in particular) are recessed so very far into the background that they seem to be eminating from a long tunnel. No speaker I've ever heard sounded remotely like this.

My amp that can easily drive Sennheiser HD580's (300ohm), Beyerdyamic DT880's (250ohm), and Grado RS-1's (32ohm) to ear-bleeding levels well below the 12 o'clock mark, is now forced past the middle of its volume knob before creating anything reasonably loud with the 750's at this point. Burn-in had better fix this too. No 40ohm can should be this tough to push.

But, I'm in this for the long haul. I had to take a quick peak, and I will now put them on the "cooker" for a few days and come back. I'll reserve final judgement for much later.

I will say that no matter how good they may end up sounding down the road, even if they end up sounding like R10's, I can't imagine how Ultrasone expects to sell more cans if they sound like this out of the box. It is not about my brain. It's definitely something very strange with these new drivers & configuration. OK, titanium needs to break in - fine. But still!

'Nuff said for now. See you in 100 hours or so...

**** MAJOR RETRACTION: The aforementioned truly bad sound was attributed to my not connecting the removable cable sufficiently. Once it was screwed on completely, frequency response improved considerably. Apologies for being too quick on the draw!

We now resume with your normally scheduled burn-in...

 

[gaijin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbritton /img/forum/go_quote.gif gaijin, I just wanted to touch upon this subject again briefly in an attempt to understand the language you are using and your experience. Not trying to defend the Ultrasones, I promise you. You obviously were impressed by these, but as you say, they are just not your cup of tea. That certainly is legitimate! I'm listening to some Shure E4c IEMs - which I've never heard anyone call "sterile" for certain! - and thinking about the Portapros... I am noticing that those both seem to "engage" me in a more direct way as if I am "inserted into" the music, like I'm almost part of the sound. This is partly the effect of it being that the music is, indeed, "inside me", as these have a very inside-the-head presentation (though they both extend beyond my ears left and right, any "depth" of the soundstage "begins" inside of my head, that is, I am immersed inside of it.) The Ultrasone effect of the S-Logic presents the music in what people have often referred to as a "more speaker-like" presentation, which I can now understand. The music seems like it is "outside of me" more - like I am a witness to the instruments, not a part of them. At least that is what happened at first with the Proline 750s - I did experience that feeling of listening to near-field monitors during the beginning. Now I must be psychoacoustically interacting with the sound more, because the instruments are becoming more intimate feeling, even though they are still not "inside of me" in the same way as the Shures or Koss are. Not always - yet - but it is surprising to me what's going on. Am I getting closer to understanding what you are meaning, gaijin? If so, I must agree that the differences are very pronounced, and will have to always be, as no amount of "getting used to" the Prolines' S-Logic presentation is going to turn them into the other presentation experience. So, I can understand one presentation being preferred over another as a matter of taste and certainly as a matter of preference experientially! Terry

I find there is more "life" in the music when listening to HD650 or K1000.
I will use an analogy.

My piano teacher when I was young (she was very old) once told me I had to feel the music's respiration ("breathing" ?). I had come to my piano lesson with a copy of Jean-Jacques Rousseau's "Les Reveries du Promeneur Solitaire" and she told me to play as he was writing. Here is an extract (sorry it is in French) :

"Quand le lac agité ne me permettait pas la navigation, je passais mon après-midi à parcourir l'île en herborisant à droite et à gauche, m'asseyant tantôt dans les réduits les plus riants et les plus solitaires pour y rêver à mon aise, tantôt sur les terrasses et les tertres, pour parcourir des yeux le superbe et ravissant coup d'œil du lac et de ses rivages couronnés d'un côté par des montagnes prochaines et de l'autre élargis en riches et fertiles plaines, dans lesquelles la vue s'étendait jusqu'aux montagnes bleuâtres plus éloignées qui la bornaient. Quand le soir approchait je descendais des cimes de l'île et j'allais volontiers m'asseoir au bord du lac sur la grève dans quelque asile caché ; là le bruit des vagues et l'agitation de l'eau fixant mes sens et chassant de mon âme toute autre agitation la plongeaient dans une rêverie délicieuse où la nuit me surprenait souvent sans que je m'en fusse aperçu. Le flux et reflux de cette eau, son bruit continu mais renflé par intervalles frappant sans relâche mon oreille et mes yeux, suppléaient aux mouvements internes que la rêverie éteignait en moi et suffisaient pour me faire sentir avec plaisir mon existence sans prendre la peine de penser. De temps à autre naissait quelque faible et courte réflexion sur l'instabilité des choses de ce monde dont la surface des eaux m'offrait l'image : mais bientôt ces impressions légères s'effaçaient dans l'uniformité du mouvement continu qui me berçait, et qui sans aucun concours actif de mon âme ne laissait pas de m'attacher au point qu'appelé par l'heure et par le signal convenu je ne pouvais m'arracher de là sans effort."

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Funny, Dex. LOL! Well, I arrived home and couldn't resist plugging them into my system immediately (c'mon, you knew that already didn't you, you sly dogs?). All I can say is: "Veeerrrrryyyyy peculiar!" I really, really hope that burn-in makes these do a complete "180", and turns this (currently) sows ear into a purse. Because the sound right now is truly bizarre. Remember when you were a kid, and you tied two aluminium cans together with a string, and tried talking to your best friend through it? That would sound better at this point. I kid you not. All frequencies are muffled, and the midrange (female vocals, in particular) are recessed so very far into the background that they seem to be eminating from a long tunnel. No speaker I've ever heard sounded remotely like this. My amp that can easily drive Sennheiser HD580's (300ohm), Beyerdyamic DT880's (250ohm), and Grado RS-1's (32ohm) to ear-bleeding levels well below the 12 o'clock mark, is now forced past the middle of its volume knob before creating anything reasonably loud with the 750's at this point. Burn-in had better fix this too. No 40ohm can should be this tough to push. But, I'm in this for the long haul. I had to take a quick peak, and I will now put them on the "cooker" for a few days and come back. I'll reserve final judgement for much later. I will say that no matter how good they may end up sounding down the road, even if they end up sounding like R10's, I can't imagine how Ultrasone expects to sell more cans if they sound like this out of the box. It is not about my brain. It's definitely something very strange with these new drivers & configuration. OK, titanium needs to break in - fine. But still! 'Nuff said for now. See you in 100 hours or so...

I said it before and say it again, something that representative of Ultrasone has said too that its possible that the drivers due to their unorthodox positioning is simply misaligned for some peoples (and yours possibly) ears. The sound is shot totally off from your earlobe where it should be hit, resulting bad sound.

 

[jpelg]

Please read my post retraction above. Apologies for being too quick on the draw. I'll leave the original content as proof of my idiocy. I only hope that others don't do the same thing I did

.

Perhaps the 2500 I heard at the meet was similiarly misconnected?

Later...

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please read my post retraction above. Apologies for being too quick on the draw. I'll leave the original content as proof of my idiocy. I only hope that others don't do the same thing I did . Perhaps the 2500 I heard at the meet was similiarly misconnected? Later...

And... what are your first impressions now that they are properly assembled too?

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa what are your first impressions now that they are properly assembled too?

Not bizarre in the least. Deep bass for sure. A bit rolled-off in the upper FR's, rather than the brightness I was expecting from other reviews. But that can easily open up with burn-in.

Kind of relaxing, actually. There is definitely something different happening with the soundstaging, but in a good, subtle way. Comfort doesn't seem to be an issue. No reverb like we all heard with the Edition 7's a couple of years ago.

That's all I'll say for now (really

).

 

[Dexdexter]

Ah yes, James, the ol' pesky threaded-connector mishap!

I must confess that I have fallen prey to this myself on a few occasions. I have since devised a little trick whereby I hold the connector stationary while gently rotating the headphone itself onto it, until it is secure. Otherwise it is far too easy to believe that the connection has been completed when in fact, it has not, since the cable has a tendency to backtrack slightly of its own accord (pun intended!).

Ralph, of course, has devised quite another method to get around this issue.

 

[user18]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well the Proline 750's arrived at work today. I quickly opened the box and plugged them directly into my PC's headphone-out jack and they sound like crap. They're going back immediately!

I missed the FedEx delivery today of my 750's.

I'm hoping they come by a 2nd time today. Anybody ever call in sick just so they can be there for the delivery person?

 

[tbritton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please read the post retraction below first (original content left as permanent proof of my idiocy) Funny, Dex. LOL! **** MAJOR RETRACTION: The aforementioned truly bad sound was attributed to my not connecting the removable cable sufficiently. Once it was screwed on completely, frequency response improved considerably. Apologies for being too quick on the draw! We now resume with your normally scheduled burn-in...

James,

Damn if I didn't do the exact same thing!!!

Terry

 

[tbritton]

gaijin,

uhhh, sure... I suppose that is a "yes" then?

I guess not...

(sorry - but this translated very badly at Google and I am an ugly American who didn't learn French because everyone told me I'd never get any respect no matter how good I got at it... kids! Got anything in German?)

Terry

(I did have a piano teacher, though... and a voice teacher, too! I still have no idea what you meant, or how it applies to headphones, and I've been making and composing music for 45 years... I guess whatever you're missing from the Ultrasone's is something I am not missing enough to know I'm missing it... or something.)

"Some people like cupcakes better... I for one care less for them."
- from 'Muffin Man' by Frank Zappa)


Quote:

Originally Posted by gaijin /img/forum/go_quote.gif I find there is more "life" in the music when listening to HD650 or K1000. I will use an analogy. My piano teacher when I was young (she was very old) once told me I had to feel the music's respiration ("breathing" ?). I had come to my piano lesson with a copy of Jean-Jacques Rousseau's "Les Reveries du Promeneur Solitaire" and she told me to play as he was writing. Here is an extract (sorry it is in French) : "Quand le lac agité ne me permettait pas la navigation, je passais mon après-midi à parcourir l'île en herborisant à droite et à gauche, m'asseyant tantôt dans les réduits les plus riants et les plus solitaires pour y rêver à mon aise, tantôt sur les terrasses et les tertres, pour parcourir des yeux le superbe et ravissant coup d'œil du lac et de ses rivages couronnés d'un côté par des montagnes prochaines et de l'autre élargis en riches et fertiles plaines, dans lesquelles la vue s'étendait jusqu'aux montagnes bleuâtres plus éloignées qui la bornaient. Quand le soir approchait je descendais des cimes de l'île et j'allais volontiers m'asseoir au bord du lac sur la grève dans quelque asile caché ; là le bruit des vagues et l'agitation de l'eau fixant mes sens et chassant de mon âme toute autre agitation la plongeaient dans une rêverie délicieuse où la nuit me surprenait souvent sans que je m'en fusse aperçu. Le flux et reflux de cette eau, son bruit continu mais renflé par intervalles frappant sans relâche mon oreille et mes yeux, suppléaient aux mouvements internes que la rêverie éteignait en moi et suffisaient pour me faire sentir avec plaisir mon existence sans prendre la peine de penser. De temps à autre naissait quelque faible et courte réflexion sur l'instabilité des choses de ce monde dont la surface des eaux m'offrait l'image : mais bientôt ces impressions légères s'effaçaient dans l'uniformité du mouvement continu qui me berçait, et qui sans aucun concours actif de mon âme ne laissait pas de m'attacher au point qu'appelé par l'heure et par le signal convenu je ne pouvais m'arracher de là sans effort."

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not bizarre in the least. Deep bass for sure. A bit rolled-off in the upper FR's, rather than the brightness I was expecting from other reviews. But that can easily open up with burn-in. Kind of relaxing, actually. There is definitely something different happening with the soundstaging, but in a good, subtle way. Comfort doesn't seem to be an issue. No reverb like we all heard with the Edition 7's a couple of years ago. That's all I'll say for now (really ).

That is more or less how the 2500 sounds like, with the difference that there is more air, like more space in the presentation, instead of the typical and very nice intimate presentation of the closed cans, which for example the Edtion 9 shows, or the CD3K. The first time I contacted Cathy in Ultrasone I complained about the "dark sound", and a way of centering the drivers, she laughted at me, and told me that this were the first time somenone had called an Ultrasone heapdhone dark sounding, rather than bright, I simply told her, go and listen the CD3K, and you will see, after centering the drivers I realized that the sound is all messed up, so i went ot square one...

See, now you are on the right track James!!! Good and two thumbs up, for an open minded headfier, regardless of if finally you like them or not, at least you got the balls to order them and try them, an example of how to do things the right way...

...

 

[Dexdexter]

Sorry, Alberto, you lost me up until this point

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good and two thumbs up, for an open minded headfier, regardless of if finally you like them or not, at least you got the balls to order them and try them, an example of how to do things the right way... ...

...with which I wholeheartedly agree. No matter what the final outcome (and believe me, there is much more to the 750s than these early-hours reveal), James is a mensch and a half for hanging with us in spite of our sometimes incomprehensible ravings!

 

[smartins]

So is there any general consensus on which one sounds best? 750 or 2500? I've been on the edge of buying one for a while but it's getting very difficult to decide on which one to get...