[derekbmn]

There have been people on the forum that have preferred the 404s over the O2s. But in most all cases they were based on a short time with both (at a meet etc.)
The O2 simply does not hit you in the face like so many other E-stats. It can take some time to realize just how amazing it is.
It can do things that the 404 simply can't. The O2 really is what I would consider a "one owner phone" meaning the arcs really need to be bent to attain a perfect fit for the owner. It makes for a huge difference.

 

[aaron313]

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekbmn /img/forum/go_quote.gif There have been people on the forum that have preferred the 404s over the O2s. But in most all cases they were based on a short time with both (at a meet etc.) The O2 simply does not hit you in the face like so many other E-stats. It can take some time to realize just how amazing it is. It can do things that the 404 simply can't. The O2 really is what I would consider a "one owner phone" meaning the arcs really need to be bent to attain a perfect fit for the owner. It makes for a huge difference.

Beg to differ on that point. Out of the BHSE prototype I got punched hard.

 

[blumenco]

Agreed...

Everything you say, I will certainly grant. The O2 is a highly refined sound, and I do not knock it for what it is for a second. stunning...

I did hear them (404, O2, 202, 303) in comparison during a relatively short duration, yesterday.

Previously, I have spent a fair amount of time in the O2 (longest at one sitting is 20 minutes), with several sittings lasting a song or two at different people's meets, or houses. I had never heard the lower end Stax.

From the most recent boxing match, for me, the 404 came out on top. Lots more "jump" factor, and a seemingly more neutral character geared towards studio engineers. A little upper midrange stridency, less absolute detail, and a little bit of "plastic sound." But they simply struck me as a really good value for the money, especially considering that an amp could be DIYed. Headphones are like a motorcycle for me personally though. I do not spend long periods of time in any headphone except Etymotics because of the noise reduction factor. An album at the most though even the nicest headphones before the little sonic issues (I am incredibly picky) start to bother me because they are right next to my head. For longer periods of time, (and for most listening) I listen to speakers.

Ill put it this way: the O2 seemed like a relaxed, european (speaker) tonal character. the 404 seemed more of the japanese ilk: highly dynamic, emotionally powerful, not overdoing the bass. Ill bring this factor into play here: apples and oranges...

They are very different sounding headphones to me. The O2 seems like Stax worked very hard to not give us anything that would remotely fatigue us during listening. That is VERY appreciated from my perspective...and perhaps part of the problem. they seem a little heavy charactered (though they are incredibly fast). Again, no offense intended... apples and oranges...

Even the Orpheus could be considered more fatiguing than the O2, with its slight tizzle on top and low bass yeehaw...

If the 404 were a little bit more refined (at roughly the same price), it would be a complete no brainer for me. For now, I just have my mouth on the bait...

-Clark

Again though, is there a DIY history behind this headphone?

Thanks!

 

[audiod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blumenco /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed... Everything you say, I will certainly grant. The O2 is a highly refined sound, and I do not knock it for what it is for a second. stunning... I did hear them (404, O2, 202, 303) in comparison during a relatively short duration, yesterday. Previously, I have spent a fair amount of time in the O2 (longest at one sitting is 20 minutes), with several sittings lasting a song or two at different people's meets, or houses. I had never heard the lower end Stax. From the most recent boxing match, for me, the 404 came out on top. Lots more "jump" factor, and a seemingly more neutral character geared towards studio engineers. A little upper midrange stridency, less absolute detail, and a little bit of "plastic sound." But they simply struck me as a really good value for the money, especially considering that an amp could be DIYed. Headphones are like a motorcycle for me personally though. I do not spend long periods of time in any headphone except Etymotics because of the noise reduction factor. An album at the most though even the nicest headphones before the little sonic issues (I am incredibly picky) start to bother me because they are right next to my head. For longer periods of time, (and for most listening) I listen to speakers. Ill put it this way: the O2 seemed like a relaxed, european (speaker) tonal character. the 404 seemed more of the japanese ilk: highly dynamic, emotionally powerful, not overdoing the bass. Ill bring this factor into play here: apples and oranges... They are very different sounding headphones to me. The O2 seems like Stax worked very hard to not give us anything that would remotely fatigue us during listening. That is VERY appreciated from my perspective...and perhaps part of the problem. they seem a little heavy charactered (though they are incredibly fast). Again, no offense intended... apples and oranges... Even the Orpheus could be considered more fatiguing than the O2, with its slight tizzle on top and low bass yeehaw... If the 404 were a little bit more refined (at roughly the same price), it would be a complete no brainer for me. For now, I just have my mouth on the bait... -Clark Again though, is there a DIY history behind this headphone? Thanks!

I do not recommend evaluating the sound quality of different headphones with only little snippits of audition. Short term listening practices (the quick A/B) when evaluating audio equipment has been abolished by the “high end” community for more than 30 years. I have been a long term electrostatic headphone listener since the early seventies. There are many here (including myself) that don’t even think that the 404 is the best of the Lambda series. I find the upper midrange brightness a deal breaker. I would rather long term listen to a SR-Lambda, Lambda Pro, Lambda Signature or Lambda Nova Signature than the 404/303/202. I do agree that after a short listen to a 404 a O2 would sound distant, dull, lifeless and muddy. Live with the O2 then listen to the 404, then they would sound tizzy, bright, edgy, glary, thin. If the O2 is not properly driven with the best amp and source you are not hearing them. If you would like a phone that is Lambda-Like without the upper midrange flaws try a Koss ESP-950 wired with a Stax connector. Other than my O2 I find myself most often listening to the 950.

 

[rsbrsvp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiod /img/forum/go_quote.gif I do not recommend evaluating the sound quality of different headphones with only little snippits of audition. Short term listening practices (the quick A/B) when evaluating audio equipment has been abolished by the “high end” community for more than 30 years. I have been a long term electrostatic headphone listener since the early seventies. There are many here (including myself) that don’t even think that the 404 is the best of the Lambda series. I find the upper midrange brightness a deal breaker. I would rather long term listen to a SR-Lambda, Lambda Pro, Lambda Signature or Lambda Nova Signature than the 404/303/202. I do agree that after a short listen to a 404 a O2 would sound distant, dull, lifeless and muddy. Live with the O2 then listen to the 404, then they would sound tizzy, bright, edgy, glary, thin. If the O2 is not properly driven with the best amp and source you are not hearing them. If you would like a phone that is Lambda-Like without the upper midrange flaws try a Koss ESP-950 wired with a Stax connector. Other than my O2 I find myself most often listening to the 950.

Wow- electrostats since the 1970's. You must have enormous experience. I agree totally with you that many headphones at first sound better than the 02 but long term- once you get used to the 02 it is difficult to listen to anything else- very much including the HE90. Do you really find you can listen to the Koss 950 after having your ear trained by the 02? Is it as non-fatiguing without any trebble brightness as the 02?

Also- do you have a recommendation for best amp. on the market to match the 02- cost no object?

I woukld appreciate your advice...

 

[audiod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsbrsvp /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow- electrostats since the 1970's. You must have enormous experience. I agree totally with you that many headphones at first sound better than the 02 but long term- once you get used to the 02 it is difficult to listen to anything else- very much including the HE90. Do you really find you can listen to the Koss 950 after having your ear trained by the 02? Is it as non-fatiguing without any trebble brightness as the 02? Also- do you have a recommendation for best amp. on the market to match the 02- cost no object? I woukld appreciate your advice...

My first electrostatic phone was a Koss ESP-9 (when they first came out). My second was a Stax SR-3 with a SRA-3s amp. I got my first electrostatic speakers (Quad ESL) in 1969. My main headphones and speakers have been electrostatic ever since.

The ESP-950 is not in the same league as the O2 but clearly is better (in most ways) than the Lambda series. They have almost a perfect tonal balance. Somewhere between the Lambda series and O2. They have good extension and are very dynamic. The only drawback is that they don’t have the best low level detail like the Lambda or O2. They play pop/rock at higher levels without fatigue. They are a fun headphone.

Clearly the best Stax amp for the O2 is the SRM-717. The SRM-007t is nice on other Stax phones but doesn’t have the extension or drive for the O2. The only aftermarket amp I’ve tried was a KGSS. I liked my 717 & 007t better than the KGSS. The KGSS does not have the low level detail or ambiance retrieval of the Stax amps. I have not heard the BH but there are many here that think that it is a perfect match for the O2. It seems like there are a lot of aftermarket amps with a lot of complaints with sound quality, reliability, QC and warranty problems. I will not buy a amp from a flakey company.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiod /img/forum/go_quote.gif Short term listening practices (the quick A/B) when evaluating audio equipment has been abolished by the “high end” community for more than 30 years.

Technically, yes, but everyone still does it. I think the quick A/B has its place, as long as one goes into it aware of the limitations and danger of having one's ear misled. Also it's often the only comparison available, so even if it needs to be taken with a grain of salt, it's better than nothing. But I suppose it would be most reliable for the person who always listens to music in 30 second intervals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiod /img/forum/go_quote.gif It seems like there are a lot of aftermarket amps with a lot of complaints with sound quality, reliability, QC and warranty problems. I will not buy a amp from a flakey company.

Now, the "high end" community will never follow you down that road! Amps from flakey or unheard-of companies have been routinely touted for those same thirty years, no? Of course, judging strictly by the magazines, one would imagine the finest gear is always whatever they're reviewing today (or if not finest, then the most surprising for the price).

 

[derekbmn]

Speaking of flakey , I see McAlister has finally updated their website-McAlister Audio - Vacuum tube power amplifiers, High End Audio, Tube Amps
Of obvious interest here is the EA-8. It LOOKS a bit better.... soooo.... anyone willing to take one for the team.....

 

[Johnny Blue]

Please tell me this guy is being wildly over-optimistic! (£500 BIN: you're 'avin' a larf!)

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekbmn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Speaking of flakey , I see McAlister has finally updated their website-McAlister Audio - Vacuum tube power amplifiers, High End Audio, Tube Amps Of obvious interest here is the EA-8. It LOOKS a bit better.... soooo.... anyone willing to take one for the team.....

I'd rather just burn the 1800$. I see he's going the Rudistor and Singlepower way and charging more for the same crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Blue /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please tell me this guy is being wildly over-optimistic! (£500 BIN: you're 'avin' a larf!)

I had a good chuckle over that.

 

[scompton]

I just got my SR-3. They need charging up so I just have them plugged in now. I can just plug them in, I don't need to play music to charge them, correct?

They came with a SRD-5 and the bad news is there is a loud hum when they're plugged into the SRD-5 whether the adapter is set to ear speaker or speakers.

 

[aaron313]

Upon receiving my 303 this morning, and having shown my mom the Lambda Pro I got yesterday, she said "What do you need both for? They look the same."

 

[rsbrsvp]

Is the SRM-717 better than the SRM-727?

Thanksss

 

[derekbmn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron313 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Upon receiving my 303 this morning, and having shown my mom the Lambda Pro I got yesterday, she said "What do you need both for? They look the same."

So are you saying you you want the STAX mafia to pay her a visit.......if...uh....there was one....

...

 

[audiod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif Technically, yes, but everyone still does it. I think the quick A/B has its place, as long as one goes into it aware of the limitations and danger of having one's ear misled. Also it's often the only comparison available, so even if it needs to be taken with a grain of salt, it's better than nothing. But I suppose it would be most reliable for the person who always listens to music in 30 second intervals. Now, the "high end" community will never follow you down that road! Amps from flakey or unheard-of companies have been routinely touted for those same thirty years, no? Of course, judging strictly by the magazines, one would imagine the finest gear is always whatever they're reviewing today (or if not finest, then the most surprising for the price).

I think A/B'ing has it's place, but it's a small place. If you buy something based on a short audition make sure you can get your money back if dissatisfied.

I dropped my subscriptions for the "high end" mags years ago. My record for spotting flakey audio companies has been pretty good.