The Stax thread (New)

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil-zen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I sold my SR 303 after I got the SR-X and Gamma Pro as I far prefer the vintage ones to the 303. The two vintage Stax are on equal status to me as as I rotate them whenever I listen to headphones. The SR-X surely doesn't have thin brittle sound though. It is one of the most midrangy headphones in my collection. scompton, you have a Gamma normal equivalent in your hands. The Gamma Pro has the more bass even compared to Sennheiser HD600 on a Gilmore dynamic amp.

To each it's own, I love the SR-303 and think SR-X is not enjoyable at all, it's might be a good tool to check for bad ground loops but that's about it

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif I highly doubt that for me that would be the case, since the soundstage would still suck and the basic nature of the headphones I imagine would still be intact.

The soundstage does suck but the Pro's are a bit better but not by much. The bass is miles ahead and the midrange even better with increased HF response.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif The soundstage does suck but the Pro's are a bit better but not by much. The bass is miles ahead and the midrange even better with increased HF response.

[rant on] Based on this little tidbit of info, there is no way I even want to spend time to find SR-X Pro

Thanks for saving me time and money.

I did not particularly like the midrange on SR-X as well, too cold for my taste. SR-Lambda on the other hand is sublime. PMB500 has midrange somewhat similar to SR-X a bit warmer but still way to harsh for me to love it. Just to give you an idea of what floats my boat. Sigma's sound signature I prefer to any headphone I heard so far, I equally like SR-lambda and SR-303

, SR-Gamma is not bad but sounds somewhat brittle to me (no meat), SR-001 I realy like as well, SR-X I hated at first and still don't like and I really like my QP85 and Float for their soundstage, but I think Sigma is better in this regard.

[rant off]

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil-zen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I sold my SR 303 after I got the SR-X and Gamma Pro as I far prefer the vintage ones to the 303. The two vintage Stax are on equal status to me as as I rotate them whenever I listen to headphones. The SR-X surely doesn't have thin brittle sound though. It is one of the most midrangy headphones in my collection. scompton, you have a Gamma normal equivalent in your hands. The Gamma Pro has the more bass even compared to Sennheiser HD600 on a Gilmore dynamic amp.

I have agree with one thing, Gamma sounds very nice (IMHO way better than SR-X) and competes with SR-303 and even SR-Lambda, but for me both are still better.

 

[Cecala]

Further evidence of my lack of knowledge here although what is the difference between 'Normal' and "Pro' bias you people refer to?

 

[wualta]

First you have to understand the function of bias in an electrostatic speaker/tweeter/headphone. Assuming that you do, raising the bias voltage in electrostatic transducers has been instrumental in continuing their gradual improvement over the decades. It used to be that 'stat 'phones couldn't play loudly and had no bass. Eventually they could play loudly but still had no bass (see the discussion just above). To make more bass the diaphragm has to move farther. Bass requires moving lots of air. To give the diaphragm more room to move required spacing the elements inside the headphone farther apart. To keep the same electrostatic force on the diaphragm, the bias voltage had to be raised. Voila, an electrostat that could play loudly without distortion even in the low bass. That's what the high ("Pro") vs. low ("Normal") bias stuff is all about: trying to get bass out of a product that traditionally didn't have very much.

 

[Cecala]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif First you have to understand the function of bias in an electrostatic speaker/tweeter/headphone. Assuming that you do, raising the bias voltage in electrostatic transducers has been instrumental in continuing their gradual improvement over the decades. It used to be that 'stat 'phones couldn't play loudly and had no bass. Eventually they could play loudly but still had no bass (see the discussion just above). To make more bass the diaphragm has to move farther. Bass requires moving lots of air. To give the diaphragm more room to move required spacing the elements inside the headphone farther apart. To keep the same electrostatic force on the diaphragm, the bias voltage had to be raised. Voila, an electrostat that could play loudly without distortion even in the low bass. That's what the high ("Pro") vs. low ("Normal") bias stuff is all about: trying to get bass out of a product that traditionally didn't have very much.

Understood, Thank you.
Does this mean that all high quality Electrostatic amps though, have the 'Pro' bias set as normal or default?
It explains the very high voltages that are used by the Stax offerings and others.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cecala /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does this mean that all high quality Electrostatic amps though, have the 'Pro' bias set as normal or default?

Not necessarily, but often they do for the practical reason that so many of the available headphones are built by Stax. DIY amps, for instance, can have whatever bias you care to set, or even multiple possible bias settings. (Useful to have a 600V if you have a Koss ESP-950, for instance)

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif Did you ever determine which drivers this thing uses? Is it another SR-3 variant? Anyway, yes, you can damp 'stats, but you need something much less dense than the felt you've been using. Mostly, as Spritzer said earlier, you see "biscuits" of mineral wool (fiberglass-like stuff, very fluffy) in 'stats. Don't think damping will help the bass much, though. The problem is more likely to be those gigantic tall earpads and the resulting big earcup volume the driver "sees". .

I'll post some comparison pictures of the Magnavox driver vs the Playback, but probably not until this weekend.

I can't imagine where I'll get circumaural pads for the Playback. The cup diameter is huge. It's probably the biggest cups of any headphone I own. I'm not sure when I'd be able to make my own pads.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif [rant on] Based on this little tidbit of info, there is no way I even want to spend time to find SR-X Pro Thanks for saving me time and money. I did not particularly like the midrange on SR-X as well, too cold for my taste. SR-Lambda on the other hand is sublime. PMB500 has midrange somewhat similar to SR-X a bit warmer but still way to harsh for me to love it. Just to give you an idea of what floats my boat. Sigma's sound signature I prefer to any headphone I heard so far, I equally like SR-lambda and SR-303 , SR-Gamma is not bad but sounds somewhat brittle to me (no meat), SR-001 I realy like as well, SR-X I hated at first and still don't like and I really like my QP85 and Float for their soundstage, but I think Sigma is better in this regard. [rant off]

Happy to help...

Now to spend that money again you need to hear a SR-Sigma Pro 404.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif First you have to understand the function of bias in an electrostatic speaker/tweeter/headphone. Assuming that you do, raising the bias voltage in electrostatic transducers has been instrumental in continuing their gradual improvement over the decades. It used to be that 'stat 'phones couldn't play loudly and had no bass. Eventually they could play loudly but still had no bass (see the discussion just above). To make more bass the diaphragm has to move farther. Bass requires moving lots of air. To give the diaphragm more room to move required spacing the elements inside the headphone farther apart. To keep the same electrostatic force on the diaphragm, the bias voltage had to be raised. Voila, an electrostat that could play loudly without distortion even in the low bass. That's what the high ("Pro") vs. low ("Normal") bias stuff is all about: trying to get bass out of a product that traditionally didn't have very much.

Very true but one point should be made and that is the context of bias voltage and drive voltage. As with everything in this world, electrostatics are full of compromises. Since air can only insulate up to 100v/mil that is an insurmountable barrier (it can be overcome with crazy engineering though) which is the baseline of all electrostatics and the law which governs the electrostatic force, i.e that its power falls with the square of the distance. That means you need a lot more bias voltage to span a small gap with the same drive voltage and that can never exceed 100v/mil. This is why we have a 200-230v standard and the 580v. The original D/S gap was 0.3mm and went to 0.5mm with the Pro series and it's easy to see how much the bias needed to be increased compared to the D/S gap. This gets even worse once we venture into speaker land with bias voltage at close to 15kV now. The two points were chosen so that normal and Pro headphones could be used in tandem on the same amp with the same drive voltage on the stators.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've never been a huge fan of the normal bias SR-X but the Pro model is a huge upgrade and one of the most enjoyable phones I have. Better then any of the Lambdas. ...

x2
I really enjoy the SR-X/MK3 Pro, which is a clear step up from the normal bias SR-X/MK3. They might not be "better" than the Lambda's, but more enjoyable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cecala /img/forum/go_quote.gif Further evidence of my lack of knowledge here although what is the difference between 'Normal' and "Pro' bias you people refer to?

It refer to the voltage used to charge the diaphragm in an electrostatic driver.
Normal = 200-230 volt
Pro = 580 volt

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't imagine where I'll get circumaural pads for the Playback. The cup diameter is huge. It's probably the biggest cups of any headphone I own. I'm not sure when I'd be able to make my own pads.

Make some two-dimensional donuts of felt and stack 'em up to the desired thickness. Better than nothing until something better shows up.

 

[Naga]

audiocubes2 and TTVJ are the only STAX vendors i know if; where else can this stuff be purchased?

 

[2deadeyes]

Moon Audio is another dealer of STAX. Also search Audiogon as there are postings by authorized dealers. Lastly, check Yamas Enterprises site for listing of authorized dealers. Note that these are all dealers within the US so it comes with a 2 yr. US warranty. If you're outside, it's better to import straight from Japan. I got my O2MK2 w/ full 2 yr. US warranty for a price close to importing direct from Japan.

 

[scompton]

Check the Yamas Enterprises site because you might have a local dealer. We have one in Northern Virginia