The Stax thread (New)

[HDen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Congratulations! The number of SR-007A and MK2 units around here seems to rise rapidly these days.

I just hope this doesn't raise their prices...

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil-zen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just bought a pair of O2A. Will be another one of those running it through SRD-7mk2 and a Panasonic digital amp. Amazing value for running both my speakers and Stax. Elephas and spritzer, are there any new listening impressions regarding the Mk1 vs Mk2? I hope I didn't make a bad choice in choosing the Mk2/A versions.

I've had way too much stuff going on lately for any solid impressions but i might just use them for a bit of gaming later tonight...

The bass hump still annoys me but they are easier to live with the Mk1 but based on sound quality alone the Mk1 is still the best you can get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by complin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps not. If the rumours are correct Stax are possibly working on a new high end phone, so it might be better to wait. Are the MKII's really that much of an improvement over the Omega II? I think the O2A's are really just a very small incremental improvement to what is quite an old, but excellent design.

They are of course designing new stuff but with the massive sales of the SR-007 we will have to wait a long time before anything new comes along.

The Mk2 is meant to fix some of the issues that the Mk1 faced and also make the RoHS compliant which the Mk1 isn't. An improvement they are not in sound but much easier to live with and work better with lesser energizers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd like to see Stax devise another portable system, the SR-001 is a lovely headphone but they need to come up with a closed back version for better isolation. Even if that means sacrificing the (more than slightly tricky) IEM fit option. The headband is tiny anyway. I'm not sure how much smaller you could make a portable electrostatic amp though without using a built in Li-ion battery. Size is in great part determined by the need to fit a small transformer in there somewhere so its never going to be super thin. And Apple isn't ever going to stick an SR-001 socket on the iPod. This makes me miss my SR-001. I'm finding myself looking at the Orthodome in disappointment. Whats the difference in the Mk2 version anyway, I've never even seen a Mk1.

The Mk1 had a 2.5um film and plastic supports for the stators so they can be identified by simply looking at them but you have to know what to look for.

I don't see any reason why a small, supra aural phone can't be made closed by venting the driver in a similar way to the 4070. The drivers wouldn't be very large but it's always a trade off with portable headphones.

 

[J-Pak]

I should have my Omega 2 MK1 sometime next week

 

[audiod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif The bass hump still annoys me but they are easier to live with the Mk1 but based on sound quality alone the Mk1 is still the best you can get.

I agree! The mk2 sounds fine until I put on the mk1. I also have the same midbass hump and not as open on top.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiod /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree! The mk2 sounds fine until I put on the mk1. I also have the same midbass hump and not as open on top.

I opened up my SR-007A's tonight and I believe I've found the "port" which is causing at least part of the bass issues. It's a small notch above the cable entry on the inside of the substructure which together with the loose fit of the cable superstructure provides and airpath out of the ear chamber.

Above is the SR-007A and below the only picture I have of the Mk1:

 

[milkpowder]

So what was supposed to be a solution to one problem - "Stax fart" - worked, but introduced another problem - bass hump, this one more annoying than the last? I never found the SR-007 particularly flatulent

Also, would dust be able to make its way into the drivers and wreck havoc, or is there some dust screen which you removed?

 

[sango]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif I opened up my SR-007A's tonight and I believe I've found the "port" which is causing at least part of the bass issues. It's a small notch above the cable entry on the inside of the substructure which together with the loose fit of the cable superstructure provides and airpath out of the ear chamber. Above is the SR-007A and below the only picture I have of the Mk1:

wow.. that's a brave thing to do.. :/

 

[Duggeh]

Its not dangerous if your careful. Getting the pads back on is a seriously tricky task though. I had to use a palette knife.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just hope this doesn't raise their prices...

Hardly!
At least as long as they stay in production.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd like to see Stax devise another portable system, the SR-001 is a lovely headphone but they need to come up with a closed back version for better isolation. Even if that means sacrificing the (more than slightly tricky) IEM fit option. The headband is tiny anyway.

I had to let my SR-001MK2 go because of the lack of sound isolation.
If Stax ever release a closed-back portable system I would be the first one to buy it. That would be awesome indeed.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif So what was supposed to be a solution to one problem - "Stax fart" - worked, but introduced another problem - bass hump, this one more annoying than the last? I never found the SR-007 particularly flatulent Also, would dust be able to make its way into the drivers and wreck havoc, or is there some dust screen which you removed?

That's basically it. The Mk1 was a no compromise solution to create the best headphone in the world and they decided to scale back with the Mk2 to make them easier to live with. If I find some white bluetack I might try and plug the port and see what happens.

There is a dustcover but you just can't see it. The only thing I removed to take those pictures is the backplate for the earpads which also holds the driver capsule in place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sango /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow.. that's a brave thing to do.. :/

The brave part came after this. I have a normal bias Lambda driver which fell apart in front of my eyes so I broke it down to it's 3 elements, scraped off all the old glue and I'm now gluing it back together. There is not a whole lot of wiggle room with a D/S gap of 0.3mm...

Stax must have special pieces to glue the drivers in as they don't want to stay together, at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its not dangerous if your careful. Getting the pads back on is a seriously tricky task though. I had to use a palette knife.

The pads are epic but the new leather models are easier to work with since they are taller and the flap is looser.

 

[Elephas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Mk1 was a no compromise solution to create the best headphone in the world and they decided to scale back with the Mk2 to make them easier to live with.

You really think the Mk1 was a no-compromise solution? Of course it had compromises, just like any other headphone. Cost was definitely a factor. The driver housings' lack of pivoting or other adjustments which may affect the universality of fit on various types of heads is a compromise. The need for a minimum amount of clamping force is another compromise.

I don't consider the Mk2 a "scaled back" version of the Mk1.

Think what you will of the O2Mk1 vs. O2Mk2, but I think these absolutist-type "pronouncements" often mislead and confuse many less experienced head-fiers.

Personally, I don't think there is any one "Best Headphone," any "Best Amp for the O2" or even that electrostats are better than dynamics. Of course, I have my preferences, but I would never assume that what I like best is actually better or "the best."

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif or even that electrostats are better than dynamics.

I believe *that one* is true

 

[shomie911]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif I believe *that one* is true

x2

 

[Duggeh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif You really think the Mk1 was a no-compromise solution? Of course it had compromises, just like any other headphone. Cost was definitely a factor. The driver housings' lack of pivoting or other adjustments which may affect the universality of fit on various types of heads is a compromise. The need for a minimum amount of clamping force is another compromise. I don't consider the Mk2 a "scaled back" version of the Mk1. Think what you will of the O2Mk1 vs. O2Mk2, but I think these absolutist-type "pronouncements" often mislead and confuse many less experienced head-fiers. Personally, I don't think there is any one "Best Headphone," any "Best Amp for the O2" or even that electrostats are better than dynamics. Of course, I have my preferences, but I would never assume that what I like best is actually better or "the best."

I think that Spritzers point about no compromises was that there were no compromises made towards the design of the headband or fit for the sake of more readily universal fit in order to obtain, when fit was adjusted correctly, the best sound possible.

The fact is that this aspect of individual fit to the users head (most commonly typified here by the Qualia 010) is not the way to go forward in a market where some or most buyers of the O2 are not doing this and are just slapping them on comfy. The MK2 is a more plug and play design in order to strike a wider fit ratio than the Mk1. The changes in the swivel system to be more rigid also reflect this.

I wouldn't say that electrostatics are the be-all-end-all over dynamics either. Got to leave room for AMT and piezo and ortho

I own a couple of dynamic headphones though and wouldn't keep them if I didn't enjoy listening to them.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif You really think the Mk1 was a no-compromise solution? Of course it had compromises, just like any other headphone. Cost was definitely a factor. The driver housings' lack of pivoting or other adjustments which may affect the universality of fit on various types of heads is a compromise. The need for a minimum amount of clamping force is another compromise. I don't consider the Mk2 a "scaled back" version of the Mk1. Think what you will of the O2Mk1 vs. O2Mk2, but I think these absolutist-type "pronouncements" often mislead and confuse many less experienced head-fiers. Personally, I don't think there is any one "Best Headphone," any "Best Amp for the O2" or even that electrostats are better than dynamics. Of course, I have my preferences, but I would never assume that what I like best is actually better or "the best."

Doug pretty much answered for me but you are getting this all wrong so I should clarify things. The fact that they don't swivel and can fart like crazy is a true sign that the engineers only cared about the best sound they could produce and to hell with everything else.

There is no swivel mount since they are a compromise by not producing enough tension to hold the phones securely. The key to the SR-007 design is to control the size of air pocket in front of the driver and that can't be done with a swivel mount properly. This makes them image like a supra aural yet in a comfortable circum aural package.

As with all planar drivers the earpads need to make a seal but the SR-007 took this concept to the extreme by trapping the air inside. This means that the bass output can be tightly controlled by altering the tension of the diaphragm for the given cavity. They backed off with the Mk2 and now we have plenty off boom, boom but where it the amazing extension and control of the Mk1? This makes them easier to like for more inexperienced listeners but I don't like it.

Saying that they compromised as to cost is true as that is the case with everything built by man but saying that the PCB based stators are a way to cut costs is simply idiotic and shows a clear lack of understanding as to what the engineers are dealing with. The mesh stators on the SR-Ω were just simply a bad idea and the same goes for the glass they used on the He90. To create a good stator you need something that is very thin, has a low resonance frequency, is very stiff and can be perforated. This then has to be made in the thousands rather cheaply and PCB material is perfect for the job. Quad used it with great success and the only better way would be wires but that isn't really an option with headphone drivers as the wires would have to be so very thin. Metal plates aren't really good and need to be damped by powder coating them as Stax is doing with the current Lambda drivers but they are much cheaper then the PCB's so they are still used.

The SR-007 is the best to me as it's the best design by far and no other ESP can pull off the same things such as bass control, detail and sound staging. Whether or not you like them is a different matter altogether and should never be confused with technical capabilities. It takes experience to know when something is really better and not just different and most audiophiles lack just that. I'm not saying that personal choice isn't a big factor but experience is often overlooked.