The Stax thread (New)

[Asr]

I finally have a BHSE and (HeadAmp-built) KGSS here at the same time and just started listening last night. I'd offer initial impressions but I suspect they're going to change. Will write something about them at some point, probably in a few weeks or so.
 
I'm definitely intrigued by the KGSS so far, will leave it at that. I was expecting less from it but it's definitely exceeded my expectations and it's going to be tricky to figure out exactly how it differs sonically from the BHSE.
 
Side-note: I'm not totally sure this KGSS is standard-issue, as the top panel is vented and I don't think I've ever seen a top-vented KGSS (and the pictured model on HeadAmp.com doesn't seem to have a vented top either).

 

[visualguy]

 
If the KGSS and BHSE are so close in sound that it would take weeks to figure out how they differ, then I would personally consider any such differences to be insignificant...
 
I also find the KGSS to be superb with my SR-007 mk1 and SR-009. If it has any issues driving them, then I certainly don't know what they are even after listening to the SR-007 on the KGSS for 4 years now... I haven't heard the BHSE.
 
 

 

[Asr]

I didn't say the BHSE and KGSS were close sonically nor did I intend to imply that - just that it'd take me weeks to figure out how they differ, because I don't listen to my CD-based system every day. More like twice a week, if that even - recently I've been going once per week, or once every other week. My ultraportable setup has been getting far more usage over the past few months.
 
I intend on amping up my listening frequency over the next few weeks, of course - will probably end up doing 3X per week or so.

 

[Currawong]

Asr: When are you getting 009s, by the way? 

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I have a DIY KGSS shipping to me next week.  Looking forward to spending time with it and my O2 Mk1, HE-60, LNS and SR-003...

 

[livewire]

Quote:

Hi all,
another one joining the Stax club
Just bought the entry level 2050 system, never heard electrostatics before...so basically I don't know what to expect! Hopefully I won't regret having sold my Woo Audio 3 and HD650, but I was really looking for something more transparent.

Transparent? Well you got it. Congratz!
The difference should amaze you, it did me. My 2050 is a keeper.
Their price range really cant be beat for the quality of sound they render.
But then, the Stax sound doesnt appeal to everybody, only you can decide.
Please let us know your impressions.
 
 

 

[realmassy]

Quote:

Transparent? Well you got it. Congratz!
The difference should amaze you, it did me. My 2050 is a keeper.
Their price range really cant be beat for the quality of sound they render.
But then, the Stax sound doesnt appeal to everybody, only you can decide.
Please let us know your impressions.
 
 

I will.
Thing is, my musical taste has been changed a lot during the past 2 years: I was listening to a lot of jazz and some prog rock, and just a bit of classical.
 
But in the last 20 months classical (especially baroque) covers 100% of my listening. And I really love the Etys ER4S with this kind of music...someone suggested I may like the Stax sound...and here we go! I should get the 2050 system tomorrow.
 
BTW, is this amp any better than that in the 2050 system? Is it worth the extra money, assuming I'll like Stax signature?

 

[K3cT]

I think you made the right choice. The ER4 is the closest thing that resembles a Stax Lambda. Probably not as layered and detailed but tonality is very similar.
 
SRM-1 should be a significant improvement too from whatever it's bundled with the 2050 system. I seem to prefer a tube-based energizer for Lambdas as they help to take off the roughness/etch a bit from their upper mid/lower treble which can be overpowering sometimes. The 202 is still acceptable in that regards though so no worries about upgrading to the SRM-1. 
 
And Asr, the KGSS that I tested also has top vents. It's a recent build (mid to late 2010 I think) so I suppose it's a new addition? 

 

[realmassy]

Thanks for your reply K3cT...really can't wait to try them
What is the cheapest (basic) tube amplification for Stax? the Woo GES? anything else?

 

[MrGreen]

There is no viable alternative to Etymotic beyond a stax rig IMHO. It took me a solid year of searching to find something that was a game ender
 
The stax is a little different, but is overall a large improvement. The frequency response is a little different, but you can EQ the stax easily to diffuse field, and stax released a hardware EQ, but the response is basically perfect as I mentioned before
 
I am talking from a scientific perspective, btw. If you like it or not is up to you

 

[arnaud]

 
Quote:

I am am looking to downsize a speaker rig to headphones--I am at my desk all day and so almost never listen to my speaker rig.  I have heard Stax at shows and such, and was impressed.  But, considering what I can sell my speakers for, I could EITHER get a pair of O2s and a very high-end headphone amp, OR get the 009s and a more modest amp (e.g. 717); I simply cannot afford the 009s and a top-tier amp--as Jude suggested was a "must" in Head-Fi TV, Episode 008 (though many have opined that the 009 is more forgiving of amps than the O2s).  So, my question: would I be better off with the top-tier cans and a good amp or a mega-amp and some very good cans?  Given the difficulty of seeking out high-end can/amp combinations for demo., any thoughts and/or suggestions would be very, very welcome.  Thanks.

 

1. Although I am in no position to speak with authority (I have not heard better than Stax amps), I doubt that any amplifier can transform the SR007 so radically that it could equal the SR009 driven by one of the higher-end Stax amps.
2. The two headphones sound radically different. Having compared the SR009 when driven by 323S vs. 727A amps, the differences are nowhere near those that separate the Omega 2 from the new flagship. This is not to say a KGSS or BHSE are not a significant step up, they most likely are given the large number of converts! However, I share the same feeling as visualguy in regards to amplification merits being blown out of proportion relative to the differences between transducers. In the case of Stax DIY amps, there is also possibly a strong belief that "if it measures or specs better, it must absolutely sound better". Naturally, this then quickly goes downhill for production Stax amps because they are built to certain cost and weight/size limit. 
3. While I can certainly imagine the SR007 improving with better amplification than what I have (well documented, see comments by spritzer and others), I can't quite imagine it would be so drastic as to close the gap with a SR009 driven by current production Stax amp.
4. Even though the Stax headphones are a difficult load, they just don't sound that bad when driven by Stax amps (to my ears a 007mkII+727A sounds already more transparent than a HD800+Lehman BCL, I don't even bring the SR009 to the table). 
5. The SR009 is apparently an easier load for the amplifier compared to the Omega 2. For example, there is absolutely no sense of uncontrolled bass / mid-bass when driven by the 727 amp.
6. In summary: my (possibly poor) advice would be to invest in the SR-009 now and weight your options for an amplifier later on. As I know, Stax has a plan to release a new flagship amp to match the SR-009. This is a kind of acknowledgement from Stax themselves that their current amps are a bottleneck to the SR-009 sound, but it does not prove that an optimally amplified SR007 sounds better - or let say more accurate because one may subjectively like the 007 better, esp. due to darker tonal balance -  than a SR009 through middle-of-road amplification. Also, the BHSE production has not stopped afaik, so you can always place your order later (meanwhile, you don't have to wait 1+ year to enjoy to Stax rig).

 
Quote:

I doubt I would do it but from pics it looks like it might be possible to send the O2 away and have them upgrade the 009 drivers? From looking at pics and now having O2's I like the housing and headband better. It just looks more classier with leather also a nice lower profile. Sounds like the 009 might be a great monitor.

 
I had posted the following in one of the thread on the 009. It seems like the inner diameter of the ear-cup is different and, for all we know, the driver itself might be different diameter. So, yes both SR007 and SR009 transducers are round, but that doesn't mean you can just swap them over . Note also that the shape of the frame (how open it is at the back for example) might influence the response. Finally, you need to see the 009 upclose, there is really no comparison with the SR007 in terms of finish.
 
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Not sure the following dimensions are clear to understand but here's a shot at it, SR007mkII first / SR-009 second, all in mm:
 

- Internal ear cup depth min: ~25 / ~20

- Internal ear cup depth max: ~30 / ~30
 
- Internal ear cup diameter min: 55 / 60
- Internal ear cup diameter max: 65 / 70
 
- Frame diameter outer: 100 / 103
- Frame diameter inner (i.e. hole on the back): 78 / 81
 
- Frame depth (ear pad seam to the 90 degree bend): 12-13 / ~17 
 
- Stator perforated diameter (as seen from outside): ~55 / ~65
- Stator distance to the rear chamber opening (e.g. hole on the back): 10? / 10?
 
So, it would appear indeed that the rear chamber is more open (steel mesh a bit finer too) but the depth - although the measure I gave is quite approximate and could be +/-3mm off - is the same.
 
Also, please confirm but in regards to the "chamber running along the edge of the driver" you're referring to: isn't it just the non-perforated rim of the stator? In which case, indeed this rim is thinner in the new version with significantly larger perforated area.
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[KingLocal]

Quote:

1. Although I am in no position to speak with authority (I have not heard better than Stax amps), I doubt that any amplifier can transform the SR007 so radically that it could equal the SR009 driven by one of the higher-end Stax amps.
2. The two headphones sound radically different. Having compared the SR009 when driven by 323S vs. 727A amps, the differences are nowhere near those that separate the Omega 2 from the new flagship. This is not to say a KGSS or BHSE are not a significant step up, they most likely are given the large number of converts! However, I share the same feeling as visualguy in regards to amplification merits being blown out of proportion relative to the differences between transducers. In the case of Stax DIY amps, there is also possibly a strong belief that "if it measures or specs better, it must absolutely sound better". Naturally, this then quickly goes downhill for production Stax amps because they are built to certain cost and weight/size limit. 
3. While I can certainly imagine the SR007 improving with better amplification than what I have (well documented, see comments by spritzer and others), I can't quite imagine it would be so drastic as to close the gap with a SR009 driven by current production Stax amp.
4. Even though the Stax headphones are a difficult load, they just don't sound that bad when driven by Stax amps (to my ears a 007mkII+727A sounds already more transparent than a HD800+Lehman BCL, I don't even bring the SR009 to the table). 
5. The SR009 is apparently an easier load for the amplifier compared to the Omega 2. For example, there is absolutely no sense of uncontrolled bass / mid-bass when driven by the 727 amp.
6. In summary: my (possibly poor) advice would be to invest in the SR-009 now and weight your options for an amplifier later on. As I know, Stax has a plan to release a new flagship amp to match the SR-009. This is a kind of acknowledgement from Stax themselves that their current amps are a bottleneck to the SR-009 sound, but it does not prove that an optimally amplified SR007 sounds better - or let say more accurate because one may subjectively like the 007 better, esp. due to darker tonal balance -  than a SR009 through middle-of-road amplification. Also, the BHSE production has not stopped afaik, so you can always place your order later (meanwhile, you don't have to wait 1+ year to enjoy to Stax rig).

Thanks for the advice arnaud.  Your suggestions seem very consistent with the prevailing views around here; it seems that people around here do not consider electronics to be nearly as important as their headphones.  I know little about cans, having been a life-long serious speaker listener and although I think that speakers are the single most important link in the audio chain, I also know from experience that electronics (and cables, isolation gear, etc.) can make a massive difference in listening pleasure... I would be surprised (and my pocketbook would be happy!) to learn that this is less the case with headphones but, as I said, my experience is much less than most with these things.  Has anyone actually compared, say, an O2-BHSE vs. a 009-717/727 rig?  Again, opinions and direct experience would be most helpful. ty again for the great feedback arnaud.

 

[Leonardo Drummond]

Quote:

I think that speakers are the single most important link in the audio chain, I also know from experience that electronics (and cables, isolation gear, etc.) can make a massive difference in listening pleasure...

I frequently think about the amount of importance of each link in the audio chain and sometimes I get confused because, even though the end of the chain is the most important bit, I just learned how big of an improvement a new tube can make. The sonic difference is not that big, but in the end, the difference in listening pleasure is really big. You just nailed it, really, what you said just clarified everything to me!
 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

I am am looking to downsize a speaker rig to headphones--I am at my desk all day and so almost never listen to my speaker rig.  I have heard Stax at shows and such, and was impressed.  But, considering what I can sell my speakers for, I could EITHER get a pair of O2s and a very high-end headphone amp, OR get the 009s and a more modest amp (e.g. 717); I simply cannot afford the 009s and a top-tier amp--as Jude suggested was a "must" in Head-Fi TV, Episode 008 (though many have opined that the 009 is more forgiving of amps than the O2s).  So, my question: would I be better off with the top-tier cans and a good amp or a mega-amp and some very good cans?  Given the difficulty of seeking out high-end can/amp combinations for demo., any thoughts and/or suggestions would be very, very welcome.  Thanks.

I would also suggest going with the 009 and one of the Stax amps, or maybe even a GES, I'm not sure that anyone has tried that combo yet. I'm very happy with my O2 Mk1 and have no plans to upgrade anytime soon, but I will be using it with a KGSSHV once it's finished. Maxing out the O2 means BHSE or DIYT2, and that means a very long wait.
 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Thanks for your reply K3cT...really can't wait to try them
What is the cheapest (basic) tube amplification for Stax? the Woo GES? anything else?

The SRM-006TS is cheaper than the GES. And of course there are frequently SRM-T1s for sale.