The Fiio X5 Thread
Feb 16, 2016 at 8:14 AM Post #18,976 of 19,652
By Obsolete what i mean is that it is no longer supported in terms of firmware updates which i would have expected for longer. The x5 itself still works as it did and sound fine but i regret the fact that Fiio have chosen to cease firmware updates so soon.
 
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Feb 16, 2016 at 9:13 AM Post #18,977 of 19,652
If you guys are having issues I'm sure FiiO will still support the X5. If you want different features, well, that's not going to happen anymore. Not sure where this 'won't support the X5’ comment is coming from. One user needed service outside of warranty and had to pay. They are not happy with the interface and the bad luck with timing of a warranty issue. I sympathize with that user for the warranty timing, but the X5 generally functions just fine and as expected, at least mine does. You guys should try contacting Astel & Kern for service, it's a bloody nightmare (almost non-existent) and look at the cost of those devices being replaced with new models more rapidly. Just adding a bit of perspective.

I just shared my bitter experience with Fiio X5. Mostly what I'm willing to say is that there are lessons to be learned no matter how old or experience you are and a rushed purchase even backed up be a bunch of positive opinions is not the way to go for any product in general.
What I was willing to highlight is that Fiio is not a customer orientated company and that they don't have consistency and clear strategy in the product design and product line development. They just release a bunch of products that are not fully refined but advertised as hi class/quality devices. Related to X5 here are some things that I consider not to be up to a minimal quality standard:
1. the wheel control is a poor copy of the ipod control. Really poor implementation from the mechanical solution to the material choice and finish. For instance it has concentric grooves that minimize the friction with the finger when it was supposed to be opposite. This makes that the wheel is not constantly engaged and a fine control of the movement and accordingly the interface reaction is not fully controlled. Actually I just rotating randomly until the desired icon is stopping in the desired position. (I'm not the only one having problems with it).
2. When the wheel is rotated clockwise the icons of the interface are rotating anticlockwise !!! More counter intuitive than this you cannot do it. I think that is no need to graduate a design university to figure out that is not OK.
3. The Gass is protuding above the case rim when that is also protuding the case. Practical it making the screen to be more exposed to scratches (quite important for a portable device that is supposed to spend a lot of time in the pocket or bag).
4. It Is not normal that the firmware development on a product to be stopped in less than 2 years from the release of the product.
5. It is not normal or let say potential good marketing policy to release an pseudo universal dock for your players but not supporting the ones that are less than 2 years old. Despite the general impression X5 was not a cheap device at roughly 400USD. Even if you wish that your customers will buy every year your new player trashing the old one this will not happens.
 
Otherwise X5 is a regular player with minimal features and decent sound. If the bad design and usability are not an issue than it is OK but not more than that. As I said I sincerely wish all off you to enjoy your X5 and other audio devices that you poses or you are planning to have.
 
PS: About A&K is no need to mention. From my point of view what they are selling and at what prices is looking as a nigerian scam. In my opinion to pay more than 1000usd for a portable player is not worthy. Better invest these money to improve my desktop setup that is much more important providing better condition for a real HiFi audition. Nevertheless A&K sells and it seems in good numbers. Long live our "equidistant professional" reviewers.
 
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Feb 16, 2016 at 9:29 AM Post #18,978 of 19,652
...Guys, if you're this unhappy with Fiio, why don't you just stop thinking about them and move on?  I mean yes, leaving your feedback so others can make as an informed of a decision as possible is always helpful, but it feels like this thread has kind of derailed lately.  You could always sell or give away whatever Fiio you have and just try something else.  This hobby is full of risks, sometimes because you don't know if you'll like something every else seems to like, sometimes because you don't know how things are going to go.  If those risks are too much for you, then I don't know what to tell you.
 
Feb 16, 2016 at 9:43 AM Post #18,979 of 19,652
The portable audio world moves much faster than mainstream scenario's like Apple, Sony etc. This is niche market where 2 year life span of a player is normal. If FiiO don't move on then they'll get left behind as all the other companies follow the routine.

I think the main problem is, as portable audio is now becoming more popular we're also reaching the mainstream consumer faster than ever. And the outcome of this is surprise, shock disappointment when they find out a products no longer supported etc.
 
Feb 16, 2016 at 9:54 AM Post #18,980 of 19,652
Dudes. 
 
I think that someone might get a hand on the source code for the microprocessor in general. But I doubt you can actually rockbox it if you do not know what you are doing,
 
There are un-scrambled versions of the firmware in the X5 or X5II themes thread. And it is there, the way to un-scramble the firmware. 
 
Now, my knowledge with this particular product will not be enough for me to rockbox or modify the FW, there are people that might. Just waiting for that to be done by a thrid party and complaining that it was not done, is rather time wasting. 
 
Also, about X5, I am sure that for a small fee, Fiio will repair any and will bring up to working condition. FW development costs a lot, and it is normal to drop it after a point. 
 
EDIT::: I do not follow Fiio X3 (the original and first) thread. Did this happen there too?
 
Feb 16, 2016 at 11:13 AM Post #18,981 of 19,652
the code used on the X3, X5, X3II, and X5II is also used on a number of other devices (i believe cowon and astrel&kern) so this will not happen.


I do know Cayin, FiiO, Questyle, and Shanling all use the same basic FW, but I'd be surprised if A&K and Cowon used that same firmware.
 
Feb 16, 2016 at 3:13 PM Post #18,984 of 19,652
So A&K and Cowon are Ingenic-based?

 
This I have no ideea. 
 
Just stating, there are a few DAPs using the exact same CPU, and I am 90% sure that you can get directions to do a custom fw for that chip, because it is used in many other things. 
 
I am curious if all devices using it also use a wheel? 
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Also, no luck in using the un-scrambled version of fw? If anyone knows how, again, there is enough source code in there to create a rockbox fw, but I do not know how, nor would I see a reason to do so.. Better to use the device as it came, with some estetic improvements. 
 
Feb 16, 2016 at 11:26 PM Post #18,985 of 19,652
  ...Guys, if you're this unhappy with Fiio, why don't you just stop thinking about them and move on?  I mean yes, leaving your feedback so others can make as an informed of a decision as possible is always helpful, but it feels like this thread has kind of derailed lately.  You could always sell or give away whatever Fiio you have and just try something else.  This hobby is full of risks, sometimes because you don't know if you'll like something every else seems to like, sometimes because you don't know how things are going to go.  If those risks are too much for you, then I don't know what to tell you.

Sorry if my posts create some irritation. It was not my intention. The thread is called "The Fiio X5 Thread" and I supposed that was open to all kinds of feedback and not only to the positive ones. If I was wrong I apologize. As I said, I already acknowledged the situation and I don't expect to see any improvement on this. Anyhow, if the hardware issues are not fixable anymore the FW ones are. For instance if you think that when you engage a controller clockwise the interface elements are rotating counterclockwise is normal then I have no more arguments to add.
As you said, the best is to be able to find all information about a product features/functionality/quality and brand customer support etc so that you can make an educated decision. I'm now in process to update/complete my HiFi system and I'm living in a place where auditioning the equipment is not possible (at least at reasonable prices since it imply taking day off from job, travel, hotel ....). As a consequence I 'm mostly relying on Internet information. The only possibility is to read the reviews on the specialty sites and forums posts for user opinions. Then reading equipment reviews for a real research and not just for the sake of the hobby info I've noted that actually there are only positive reviews ! (very small exceptions). Everybody in the industry is doing only at least very good equipment. Everywhere they "never hear before such...", "unmatched sound.....", etc. Off course everybody realize that most of the sites are run through advertising and some of them will review only products from brands that buy ad place on the site. Off course they have strong policies related to that but from the policy to reality there are a lot of compromises to be done and then the objectivity border line became fuzzy. The only chance for users to balance this are the forums hopping to find there all sides of the story good or bad. Then the risk is minimized and you don't need to waste money and time until you find something that is satisfying.
 
The portable audio world moves much faster than mainstream scenario's like Apple, Sony etc. This is niche market where 2 year life span of a player is normal. If FiiO don't move on then they'll get left behind as all the other companies follow the routine.

I think the main problem is, as portable audio is now becoming more popular we're also reaching the mainstream consumer faster than ever. And the outcome of this is surprise, shock disappointment when they find out a products no longer supported etc.

Let's not foul ourselves. The portable audio devices are true targeted to a niche audience, but almost no maker is actually invented something new or promoting any new technology. These are coming from the mainstream products and all of them were available more than two years back. They are using DAC chips that are already on the market for long time (only AK 4490 was introduced last year). The control DSP and CPU are there for long time, The interface being touch screen otr not is there for long time, the OS used being Android or other is there also long time before. Other than putting these together and having a good engineering department to make the various system integration is nothing extraordinary. There was no any breakthrough technologies in the last two years that stopped them (and I'm not speaking only about Fiio) to do what they do now. Fiio X7 or A&K 320, A&K380 (excepting the DAC chip) etc could been as well developed two years ago. Anyhow I don't want to say that X7 was supposed to be lunched two years ago. I just pointed out that releasing products in a fast pace without big differences between then (e.g. X5, X5 II gen), or totally abandon a product concept in less than two years from the initial release, show that the respective brand has no any medium or long term strategy in developing a product line starting from a concept, going through the first implementation and steadily improving and refining tit. Instead they prefer to put the parts together and release a new product just because the time was come or because others did it too.  From this point of view Fiio and A&K are very similar. The only thing that separate them is the marketing strategy. Fiio choose to sell more at a lower price and A&K took the path of luxury and exclusivity targeting smaller market with extreme prices. Just for fun I must mention that I'm living since several years in Korea and there is no Askell and no Kern here, they are only Kim, Park, Lee, Shin... but for sure, no matter how good will be the sound, you will not sell to many Kim&Park players
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. I don't see how somebody could convince me that AK380=10xFiio off course excluding real gold cases and eventualy diamond inserts. Finally is a player using a mainstream DAC chip (true that is new but still mainstream chip that is and will be used in many other products) and maybe better tuned analog signal processing.
Regarding these players going mainstream I doubt that it will happens. I don't see many people spending ~400USD on a music player not to mention paying additional good money on quality ear/headphones plus tinkering with unusual files (for them), other media players to handle them and upgraded storage to store them. Is similar with photo cameras/watces or similar, majority of people see no reason to pay more than ~200USD for a camera or watch.
 
Nevertheless I must say again I didn't want to offend or irritate any of you. I know that owning a device is making someone more sensitive to the eventual critics related to it but I think that we must to make an effort to be objective and look again. If we can do it we will be closer to the real thing and if currently nothing could be improved, at least we will be better prepared next time!
 
PS. For the native English people I must to apologize for the eventual spelling or weird expressions. I hope that in the end what I was willing to say was intelligible.
 
Feb 16, 2016 at 11:45 PM Post #18,987 of 19,652
Lucser, the scroll direction has been brought up a thousand times in this thread. Have you looked at the custom themes for the X5? There are a lot of options that get around the scroll direction.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/717947/fiio-x5-custom-modded-firmwares
 
Feb 16, 2016 at 11:56 PM Post #18,989 of 19,652
I don't actually own an X5, I had one home audition once, but what I do know is I spend a lot of time on these forums (probably too much time) and the general consensus is the majority of owners seem very satisfied with their FiiO X5 units. I have owned X1 and X3II, I know the scroll wheels aren't perfect, but all I see happening here is a member being extremely vocal about his disappointment.
 
But, what I can show you is the outcome before we even get there.
 
Nothing will happen, Lucser will battle it out on his keyboard until he:
 
1)  Gets bored.
2) Feels like he put his point across.
3)  Feels like he's wasting his time.
 
So, either way through all the back forth and walls of text nothing will change, the sun rises tomorrow and FiiO continue as planned just (like any other brand)
 
Hence the reason for my breif post above, because "I know" its just a a waste energy from expereince.
 
(yes, I spend way too much time on these forums)
 

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