The discovery thread!

[MakeItWain]

You've got a guy with a Nautilus and H60 saying TD20 has got him tearing up, and how it's got mind-blowing bass. You know my collection and how I'm always b*tching about bass quality and muffled vocals and sibilance, and I've been SHILLING this set the whole year.

@Ozboyblu speak up man!

Was the Squig reflecting burn in for the TD20? At 500h? Or filters?

 

[Ineras]

I have 2 sets, well 3 actually but one set has a loose 2-pin connection and they sent a replacement pair. One set has an undersized 500 mesh filter with hole, just to demonstrate how well I can make a graph look good.

Graphs of both are on my squiglink. I had my first TD20 set long before I bought my coupler, so I would think it was fully burned in already by the time I graphed them.

 

[MakeItWain]

I have 2 sets, well 3 actually but one set has a loose 2-pin connection and they sent a replacement pair. One set has an undersized 500 mesh filter with hole, just to demonstrate how well I can make a graph look good.

Graphs of both are on my squiglink. I had my first TD20 set long before I bought my coupler, so I would think it was fully burned in already by the time I graphed them.

Got it. That TD20 500 looks ideal but that base one is

 

[Jmop]

It’s gonna be a $50 showdown between Klean and Mira fa shooo.

Klean with a 4.4mm, I’m telling you guys, the stage depth is crazy the way instruments are moving between the layers.. but RS2 cuts the treble too early, I feel like I can squeeze more resolution out of Klean.

 

[Ineras]

Got it. That TD20 500 looks ideal but that base one is

I know it's got an obnoxious looking graph, but both @Ozboyblu and @jbfps116 are using it without tuning filters. I also prefer it uncensored.

 

[Ozboyblu]

TD20 has it’s own Clear draw and Upgrade cable and PAC LS Ear Tips.

That should give some indication on how much I like them.

Well, I can understand that. tbth, I don't really use the S12 (2024) that often. I usually reach for the S08, PR2 (modded), or the Wu Zetian before I do the S12 (2024). Now do I think it's not as good as those? I think it's a fantastic IEM, but the midrange clarity lags behind all of those I mentioned, and the treble is a tad more strident than those others too (ok, the unmodded PR2 is equally as strident, but with the mesh mod, it's much more reigned in).

Yeah I havn’t given up on S12 2024 yet.

Was the Squig reflecting burn in for the TD20? At 500h? Or filters?

Thanks for the suggestion of the Yongse Cable. They look and synergise well with TD20.

Oh … yeah I don’t use any filters on mine.

I have 2 sets, well 3 actually but one set has a loose 2-pin connection and they sent a replacement pair. One set has an undersized 500 mesh filter with hole, just to demonstrate how well I can make a graph look good.

Graphs of both are on my squiglink. I had my first TD20 set long before I bought my coupler, so I would think it was fully burned in already by the time I graphed them.

I really need to invest in a coupler to graph my IEM’s I think.


BTW - EBC80 is opening up like a flower. Stage and mids have been detected by my ears as having slight Suttle changes already.

One More Thing….

@FreeWheelinAudioLuv2 & @Ineras Cable suggestions. Saved me over 2 thousand AUD. Lol. .

Got to love Ali Express over inflated retail prices.

But Thanks Guys. That’s the last of my Black Friday Shopping.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

So those are OG JVC Spiral Dots on the EBC80. I've been doing some obsessive tip rolling since I got these Wednesday, and let me tell you, the SD's are the ideal tip sonically and comfort wise for this IEM. I tried no less than 10 different tips (it's actually more), and though some came close to being ideal, none actually checked all the boxes except the Spiral Dots, so until something new comes along to knock it off it's throne, the EBC80 + Spiral dots + XINHS K12 are optimized aural e**in' BLISS!!!

TD20 has it’s own Clear draw and Upgrade cable and PAC LS Ear Tips.

That should give some indication on how much I like them.



Yeah I havn’t given up on S12 2024 yet.



Thanks for the suggestion of the Yongse Cable. They look and synergise well with TD20.

Oh … yeah I don’t use any filters on mine.



I really need to invest in a coupler to graph my IEM’s I think.


BTW - EBC80 is opening up like a flower. Stage and mids have been detected by my ears as having slight Suttle changes already.



One More Thing….



@FreeWheelinAudioLuv2 & @Ineras Cable suggestions. Saved me over 2 thousand AUD. Lol. .

Got to love Ali Express over inflated retail prices.

But Thanks Guys. That’s the last of my Black Friday Shopping.

How I look at it is this -- one : Do they always sell them for that sale price, or during off sale times, are they closer to the "retail price", and two : I compare the alloys and the strand/core to the more expensive cable brands, to see how they stack up material wise, and if yes to both, then I know I'm getting a really killer deal, that's actually saving me a ton of money in real time, and not Alix retail time.

 

[DynamicEars]

I don't understand reality at all when I see all that hype around Shanling M5 Ultra (or is it about MUSE?). The Shanling player has got huge output impedance (4.7 Ohm for SE and 6.6 Ohm for balanced output). It could result in tonality distortions on using low impedance IEMs. I don't understand manufactures producing such products. The only guess is: "we don't know how to make it better, then we will do it just different - users will not understand this background".

Wait... OI through 4.4mm is 6.6Ω???
Why tf were these numbers not made public before?
I know folks were asking for detailed power specs but information received was vague (or non-existent) in replies to these queries.
Man... this gives me a bit of worry and I am wondering whether or not to cancel my order...
6.6Ω (or even 4.7 SE) is pretty high for IEMs...
I wonder whether using an impedance adapter would make a [positive[ difference in perception of sound quality???
Dang!

Could any of y'all with the M5U try to test your IEMs with lower OI IEMs and tell us whether you perceive any degradation or distortions?
Would be much appreciated and would probably go a long way in easing my concerns.

I knew this was probably going to come up.



Got you covered.

Listing for the Shanling M5 Ultra




Here's the Muse Hifi M5 Ultra

Yes, Muse Hifi is being not fully forth coming with specifications due to some "proprietary" things or confidentiality agreement.

But it's been fine with IEMs. The output impedance concern is on a different product altogether.

It's also why I try make sure I include Muse Hifi when I mention the M5 Ultra since there is definitely another major product with the same name. Just so things aren't confusing.

Just a small mix up in this case.

VERY interesting results. This once again highlights the importance of sources, how they can sculpt the sound and affect your impressions, especially with sensitive iems. My standard measuring dac is a Jcally JM6 pro. All measurements below done with my standard foam tip.



Funny how the Muse M5U 3.5 squeezes out more bass compared to its 4.4, in both vacuum tube and transistor modes.

Edit: DC-Elite was connected to power bank with CB19 when I did these measurements.

WTH so the "sound different" reviewed all this time is all because of the high impedance output?? well.. like @anli said "The only guess is: "we don't know how to make it better, then we will do it just different - users will not understand this background". lol

btw @Ineras so all this time your measurement are based with jcally JM6 pro? no wonder your graph have more bass compared to mine. I'm using apple dongle for graphing.

Well i know i think maybe diferent but what is that super special with ebc 80. Because from review i think you can have it second hand mest for years maybe.

Easy answer. Because who wants a SECOND HAND MEST when you can have a brand new EBC80? The romance with old popular gear can really skewer the thought process. Though old gear can really be of value and performance (My Sennheiser IE800 comes to mind), I'm not going to actively go out and seek a newer copy of that same model, with the existence of the EBC80. I'm going to buy the EBC80, and skip buying another IE800 at the same price, despite the oldie being a goodie.

Well mest is legendary iem. Personaly my goal is in balanced way so i need go diferent route.

Well, from humble experience with long time Mest user and had them on top of the list for years, I reach to my Shock often more recently, not because of just merely new toy effect (Have Shock for a month + by now) just because the Shock have special spatial and imaging, yes its better than Mest, or Odin, or u12t or lot of TOTLs I've tried / own. Even the soundstage is wider than my Z1R with certain settings.
I was denial but right now I'm so sure. The Sonion BCD are revolutionary drivers, more so than planars IMHO.
There are very great Midfi set because of the better tuning and drivers, like Cantor (that @o0genesis0o said better than his u12t), Shock, EBC80, Thieaudio Origins etc.
Diminishing return starts early currently, starting from the Shock on $599.
*disclaimer : I'm not Penon shiller, Shock is my first TSMR and I bought them full price with my own money., If they are bad I just saying without hesitate, like in my previous impressions.

I got second hand mest mk1 for $550 and the seller gave me Fiio FH7 for $135 because i purchased from him the mest.
I think it was a good deal.
I enjoy the mest mk1 more than mk2.
Mk1 has weaker sub bass but stronger mid bass, the mids are about the same for me and the soundstage is also more impressive on the MK1.

Me too personally chose Mest OG than the Mk2, and I'm agree that Soundstage and imaging is a tad better on Mk1 compared to Mk2 as confirmed by @Precogvision too (Yes I double asked him for his opinion too and he prefer Mest OG too) with notes, the Mk2 have better timbre or less metallic on high mids / lower trebles and more subbass present perceiving because of the overall tonality.

Crazy how the Shock is beating the Mest in Mest speciality, Imaging and spatial departments.

 

[MakeItWain]

WTH so the "sound different" reviewed all this time is all because of the high impedance output?? well.. like @anli said "The only guess is: "we don't know how to make it better, then we will do it just different - users will not understand this background". lol

No, the high impedance output is not a thing in this case. @anli mistook the Shanling M5 Ultra measurements for the Muse Hifi M5 Ultra.

The 'sound different' is tubes.

That's what my post was indicating.

I don't fully know what the true output impedance is but I highly doubt it'll be that high.

 

[DynamicEars]

No, the high impedance output is not a thing in this case. @anli mistook the Shanling M5 Ultra measurements for the Muse Hifi M5 Ultra.

The 'sound different' is tubes.

That's what my post was indicating.

I don't fully know what the true output impedance is but I highly doubt it'll be that high.

Aah.. Ok thanks for clarification Wayne

 

[Takeda`1537]

Egg Zackary!! I spend exorbitant amounts of money in this hobby to elevate my listening experience, not downgrade it for the sake of convenience.

Echo that!!!

 

[anli]

mistook the Shanling M5 Ultra measurements for the Muse Hifi M5 Ultra

Yes, my mistake. As for Muse, it it intentional a priori known and looked for colored sound, no problems here.

 

[cobrabucket]

I did a thing:



I was really close to skipping this, but Apos has the XD05T on a decent sale and on top of that I got them to price match a store on AliX for close to another $80 off.
In my past experiences with Apos, they have had excellent customer service and hassle-free returns if a problem comes up.
I would not want to risk having to send the amp back to China through a random store on AE!
While unsure if I will keep both the M5U and the XD05T for the long haul, I will be be able to listen to them and see where things go from there...
I could actually see use cases for both, tbf.
For the last part of my BF weekend, I am trying to decide if I want to snag one of those XINHS S08 cables for the EBC80 and also still contemplating whether I need the absolutely monstrous bass of the Punch in my life...

 

[o0genesis0o]

WTH so the "sound different" reviewed all this time is all because of the high impedance output?? well.. like @anli said "The only guess is: "we don't know how to make it better, then we will do it just different - users will not understand this background". lol

Possibly, I’m not sure it’s just the static behaviour captured by a sine sweep that determines the whole experience. After all, Joe Bloggs’ DSP plugin shows that he can intensify dynamic to make smaller amp sound like big amp by dynamically applying EQ , rather than statically set an EQ all the time.

and yeah, Cantor is pretty awesome. Wouldn’t bat an eye if it goes for $1000, (but I wouldn’t be that impressed by the value it brings to the table either).

 

[MakeItWain]

Yes, my mistake. As for Muse, it it intentional a priori known and looked for colored sound, not problems here.

No problem! Just wanted to help clear up things.

I did a thing:



I was really close to skipping this, but Apos has the XD05T on a decent sale and on top of that I got them to price match a store on AliX for close to another $80 off.
In my past experiences with Apos, they have had excellent customer service and hassle-free returns if a problem comes up.
I would not want to risk having to send the amp back to China through a random store on AE!
While unsure if I will keep both the M5U and the XD05T for the long haul, I will be be able to listen to them and see where things go from there...
For the last part of my BF weekend, I am trying to decide if I want to snag one of those XINHS S08 cables for the EBC80 and also still contemplating whether I need the absolutely monstrous bass of the Punch in my life...

My brother, I cannot wait for your impressions.

I've had the XD05T in my cart in AliExpress for a while now and I've still been debating it in my head. I do have the TAP-2 coming in and if I'm impressed with it, I may indulge that way.

I know a few people really love their TAP-1 and their new revised form factor that allows for op-amp rolling appeals to me. May be able to post impressions here and cover everyone's basis for upgrade path.