The discovery thread!

[Zerstorer_GOhren]

Speaking of New Generation Balanced Armature Drivers from Bellsing, it appears that it follows the material composition and production process similar to Sony BAs. We all know how good Sony BAs are, aside from customised Knowles and Sonion BAs.

I even speculate that TANGZU, 7Hz and JUZEAR use those new generation BAs.

 

[baskingshark]

Speaking of New Generation Balanced Armature Drivers from Bellsing, it appears that it follows the material composition and production process similar to Sony BAs. We all know how good Sony BAs are, aside from customised Knowles and Sonion BAs.

Wow do you have any link or info on this?

I mean yeah we have the saga of some TOTL companies secretly using Bellsing BAs, so their engineers must see - or rather, hear - the utility of these drivers (in addition to of course the cheaper pricing compared to the duopoly of Sonion and Knowles).

But supposedly, Bellsing is under a US court enforced desist order, that bars them being imported into the US for a period of 26 years (from 2021).

https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...s-in-Trade-Secret-Theft-Case-Against-Bellsing

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2021-10-08/pdf/2021-21998.pdf


Enforcement is another story though, this might be a toothless victory, as I doubt the customs can open the shell of every IEM coming to American shores. Even if they open it, can they with certainty say this is a Bellsing BA if there is a fake or no serial number on the driver? Especially with tons of weekly pokemons being released?

 

[nikbr]

Then you must probably be a low volume listener. I had a set 5 years or so ago and still remember the harsh upper mids/lower treble and bad timbre.

On higher volumes the Fletcher Munson curve will emphasize the 2 and 4ish kHz areas which have a 10+ dB ear gain. There is an 8 kHz artefact peak above but there is also a peak there on actual listening.

But we can agree to disagree on this one, but can at least come to a consensus it wouldn't be competitive today (ie it is stuck in the depth of your drawers as so eloquently put).

Yep, I definitely am mostly a low-to-mid volume listener. Especially with sets like the Cloud and indeed the BL05.
Turning up the volume is reserved for those sets with lower pinna and less treble overall - best example, the Explorer. That one shines at 85+dB.

 

[Zerstorer_GOhren]

Wow do you have any link or info on this?

I mean yeah we have the saga of some TOTL companies secretly using Bellsing BAs, so their engineers must see - or rather, hear - the utility of these drivers (in addition to of course the cheaper pricing compared to the duopoly of Sonion and Knowles).

But supposedly, Bellsing is under a US court enforced desist order, that bars them being imported into the US for a period of 26 years (from 2021).


https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...s-in-Trade-Secret-Theft-Case-Against-Bellsing

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2021-10-08/pdf/2021-21998.pdf


Enforcement is another story though, this might be a toothless victory, as I doubt the customs can open the shell of every IEM coming to American shores. Even if they open it, can they with certainty say this is a Bellsing BA if there is a fake or no serial number on the driver? Especially with tons of weekly pokemons being released?

I just read them on some forums a year ago, I think Larry also knows about those infos too, you can ask him about it.

Bellsing is on US trade list sanction due the Knowles case. Yeah, It will be a hassle to US customs to open up those sets with BAs. Well we know the sources of KZ BAs.

 

[o0genesis0o]

You can check out Crinacle's definition of BA timbre here, which I quite agree with: https://crinacle.com/2019/02/04/what-is-technical-ability-according-to-me-myself-and-i/



His description of "Plastic timbre" AKA BA timbre = some weightless and hollowness in notes due to a too fast decay. Usually this is more apparent in treble frequencies for acoustic instruments such as woodwinds and brasses for example.

However, not all BA types suffer from bad timbre, for example the Sony M9 uses some foam to damp the nozzles so the timbre is quite natural.

And timbre is very subjective. Some are not particular about it, and value other aspects like technical chops over timbre. Some listen to music genres which do not emphasize acoustic instruments but more of synthetic ones (so timbre may take a back seat). Some have not heard a real acoustic instrument up close so they don't have a baseline for timbre to compare with.

So nothing right or wrong, we have different priorities, and maybe it might be a blessing for you not to be picky about this so-called BA timbre!







This is the original BL05, not the S variant which is green and is the one @Jmop bought.

The original BL05 sounds like a metallic tin can. Super sibilant and harsh in the upper mids, with a metallic timbre as described above by Crinacle.

The sequel BL05S is legit but avoid the original BL05 IMHO.

I have a hunch that BA bass meme is a combination of

• Old BA implementation does not really have subbass, especially if the fit is not air tight. No subbass = no impact, no texture, hollow.
• DD smears bassline much more than BA and planar, but they have been around forever, so the “wrong” becomes right.

What puzzles me is the sense of dynamic. Since @Zerstorer_GOhren brings up Hiby IEM, he reminds me of the Crystal II. That IEM has very stingy amount of bass, but feels lively and dynamic some how, like when beat drops, it drops decisively and with a sense of weight. That dynamic, to me, is more important than the usual DD slop.

Unless DD in question is Sony Z1R, then it’s not slop. Hats off to legendary bass response

It still depends of the implementation and the quality material of balanced armature drivers, mate.

Some woofer BAs like from Knowles and Sonion delivers that DD-like sound but you will still noticed that tad hollowness feel, lack of depth and rumbling presence that you can only hear from true high quality dynamic driver. I myself prefers a hybrid driver configuration as I see more benefit of it like more fuller sound, better resolution and clarity that few DDs able to match but it depends how it was tuned.

I still have some good all-BA sets from Audiosense, See Audio and Hiby.

And then we have Fostex DD used in some Elysian IEM. DD woofer that sounds razer sharp like BA

Wow do you have any link or info on this?

I mean yeah we have the saga of some TOTL companies secretly using Bellsing BAs, so their engineers must see - or rather, hear - the utility of these drivers (in addition to of course the cheaper pricing compared to the duopoly of Sonion and Knowles).

But supposedly, Bellsing is under a US court enforced desist order, that bars them being imported into the US for a period of 26 years (from 2021).


https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...s-in-Trade-Secret-Theft-Case-Against-Bellsing

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2021-10-08/pdf/2021-21998.pdf


Enforcement is another story though, this might be a toothless victory, as I doubt the customs can open the shell of every IEM coming to American shores. Even if they open it, can they with certainty say this is a Bellsing BA if there is a fake or no serial number on the driver? Especially with tons of weekly pokemons being released?

Unless aful has a secret factory somewhere, or there is another ba manufacturer, it’s likely that all of their IEMs have been based on bellsing drivers. Not bad

Maybe Kinera has their own BA factory? Don’t know why but I recall Kinera/Celest makes their own drivers.

 

[saldsald]

Also bought sth pretty interesting here:

a number of 10mm DDs and Knowles RAN 62462. These BAs are cheaper than any Bellsing BAs

 

[Zerstorer_GOhren]

What puzzles me is the sense of dynamic. Since @Zerstorer_GOhren brings up Hiby IEM, he reminds me of the Crystal II. That IEM has very stingy amount of bass, but feels lively and dynamic some how, like when beat drops, it drops decisively and with a sense of weight. That dynamic, to me, is more important than the usual DD slop.

Crystal 6 II is probably one of the most picky IEMs in terms of source matching. Like it sound underwhelming on a DAP (HiBy and Questyle) and dongles but excellent on LG devices, and I find it amusing somehow.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Crystal 6 II is probably one of the most picky IEMs in terms of source matching. Like it sound underwhelming on a DAP (HiBy and Questyle) and dongles but excellent on LG devices, and I find it amusing somehow.

Its midrange is surprisingly detailed as well. It’s like a spotlight shining on the vocals. I heard subtle details, down to the turning of sheet music in a vocal recording that I have never heard before with any other IEM.

Definitely a niche IEM. I hope that retry that IEM with a more easy going tuning.

 

[saldsald]

Unless aful has a secret factory somewhere, or there is another ba manufacturer, it’s likely that all of their IEMs have been based on bellsing drivers. Not bad

There is another BA manufacturer called EAudio. I always wonder why there's no one complaining about Aful never uses Knowles or Sonion BAs and charge you for a relatively premium price.

 

[Zerstorer_GOhren]

Interesting situation, @baskingshark . check this out, it seems that BELLSING changes its BA model name line-up, they use to follow on Knowles naming series.

http://www.bellsing.com/en/list-364-1.html

http://www.bellsing.com/en/list-366-1.html

http://www.bellsing.com/en/list-367-1.html

Some newer models reminds of some Sony BAs that I saw in schematic diagram some years ago.

 

[saldsald]

Interesting situation, @baskingshark . check this out, it seems that BELLSING changes its BA model name line-up, they use to follow on Knowles naming series.

http://www.bellsing.com/en/list-364-1.html

http://www.bellsing.com/en/list-366-1.html

http://www.bellsing.com/en/list-367-1.html

Some newer models reminds of some Sony BAs that I saw in schematic diagram some years ago.

They have been naming their BAs this way for a longer time than I can remember actually. They just have two model numbers for some of the more common BAs analogus to Knowles equivalents as far as I know. (I talked to a Bellsing rep about this)

 

[Zerstorer_GOhren]

There is another BA manufacturer called EAudio. I always wonder why there's no one complaining about Aful never uses Knowles or Sonion BAs and charge you for a relatively premium price.

E-audio were somewhat a de-facto on budget sets, I think that both TRN and KZ using them too. I can't find its official website anymore.

 

[saldsald]

E-audio were somewhat a de-facto on budget sets, I think that both TRN and KZ using them too. I can't find its official website anymore.

Here:
https://www.yioude.com.cn/

 

[Zerstorer_GOhren]

They have been naming their BAs this way for a longer time than I can remember actually. They just have two model numbers for some of the more common BAs analogus to Knowles equivalents as far as I know. (I talked to a Bellsing rep about thi

Can you ask the Bellsing rep to confirm if it is true that they change some of their manufacturing process on their latest BAs based on what I read.

 

[Zerstorer_GOhren]

Here:
https://www.yioude.com.cn/

Thank you very much.