The discovery thread!

[Zerstorer_GOhren]

Show me an AS something that sounds like this IEM.

By the way, This is the latest AS series from KZ (probably not..) KZ AS10 PRO

 

[somnarium]

SR9?

I certainly find the SR9 enjoyable.

To my ears, solid mid-bass thump. Not a technical beast at all and have heard complaints about stage & separation which have some merit but not a deal breaker.

A big plus for me is the fit and isolation . This goes a long way in contributing to the office commute use.

I wanted to revisit the Neo 5. I recall significant hype for it. What are the best music genres for this iem? Has it been outclassed by others at its price range?

Another great fitting IEM.

Very rich sounding to me. Warm and bassy. Like putting on a pair of comfy slippers

Logically, probably redundant having both these IEM's... but, I freely acknowledge my love of gear as a close second to music enjoyment.

 

[Vonbuddy]

Unboxing the first one from SORA Audio, the RISE was quite fun and unique.
.
However, according to them, the tonality represents their house sound approach. On my first try, I can say their approach is professional. Boasting a flat tonal balance with a bit of forwarded mid-range along with brilliant technical traits makes it suitable for studio monitoring. The way it handles the complex tracks is jaw-dropping. Also, the shell design is ergonomic and lightweight, friendly for long effortless sessions. Gonna review it in detail soon.
Talking of the track, my go-to complex testing track is - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1J9IE9CxAg

How much?

 

[vsg28]

My impressions from the 2024 Shenzhen International Audio Show, for those interested: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/2024-shenzhen-international-audio-show-report/

 

[DynamicEars]

You can check out Crinacle's definition of BA timbre here, which I quite agree with: https://crinacle.com/2019/02/04/what-is-technical-ability-according-to-me-myself-and-i/



His description of "Plastic timbre" AKA BA timbre = some weightless and hollowness in notes due to a too fast decay. Usually this is more apparent in treble frequencies for acoustic instruments such as woodwinds and brasses for example.

However, not all BA types suffer from bad timbre, for example the Sony M9 uses some foam to damp the nozzles so the timbre is quite natural.

And timbre is very subjective. Some are not particular about it, and value other aspects like technical chops over timbre. Some listen to music genres which do not emphasize acoustic instruments but more of synthetic ones (so timbre may take a back seat). Some have not heard a real acoustic instrument up close so they don't have a baseline for timbre to compare with.

So nothing right or wrong, we have different priorities, and maybe it might be a blessing for you not to be picky about this so-called BA timbre!

Interesting, I myself despite really critical about bass quality, tonality and treble extension, I'm aware that I'm not strict about timbre judgement, or maybe like @o0genesis0o I also can't get right definition of "plasticky timbre" that sometimes got mentioned in reviews, while this "metallic timbre" thing is something very obvious to me, usually because of tonality in lower treble especially 5-6khz due the that decay you were talking about, or sometimes over ringing that made the tonality weird that we called it metallic timbre. Can be caused by bad driver, peaky driver undampened, or over ringing because of too much resonance because of bad dampening, etc. Mean while something with foam or cotton usually have great timbre because of the dampening material.

But then, I also quite observer about note weight so I guess it's the same thing with "plastic timbre" If yes, then its just about the term. lesson learnt.

I guess they belong to the “implement well” category? I remember HiFri opening up P5 or P8 and admiring their crossover circuitry.

Personally:

• 3-way crossover: I yawn
• 4-way and up: my wallet is ready

To be fair, if aful can make something sounds like cantor out of cheap no name drivers, they deserve the mark up

I agree, the more crossover = the better separation and imaging? Mests are using 5 way crossover. I only find 5-way crossover in TOTL sets, while I never meet any IEMs with 6 crossover, but the Subtonic Storm skip the 6 and use 7 way crossover that is crazy. I bet this is also one of their special sauces too

 

[o0genesis0o]

Interesting, I myself despite really critical about bass quality, tonality and treble extension, I'm aware that I'm not strict about timbre judgement, or maybe like @o0genesis0o I also can't get right definition of "plasticky timbre" that sometimes got mentioned in reviews, while this "metallic timbre" thing is something very obvious to me, usually because of tonality in lower treble especially 5-6khz due the that decay you were talking about, or sometimes over ringing that made the tonality weird that we called it metallic timbre. Can be caused by bad driver, peaky driver undampened, or over ringing because of too much resonance because of bad dampening, etc. Mean while something with foam or cotton usually have great timbre because of the dampening material.

But then, I also quite observer about note weight so I guess it's the same thing with "plastic timbre" If yes, then its just about the term. lesson learnt.





I agree, the more crossover = the better separation and imaging? Mests are using 5 way crossover. I only find 5-way crossover in TOTL sets, while I never meet any IEMs with 6 crossover, but the Subtonic Storm skip the 6 and use 7 way crossover that is crazy. I bet this is also one of their special sauces too

I have been A/Bing Voltage and Cantor lately. I think it’s a trade off between “vibe” and “precision”. Both have quite incisive bass attack with proper sensation of “weight” behind the bass attack, due to their subbass extension. Both can rumble and reveal texture, particularly noticeable with bass guitars.

Where they differ is how long the bass seems to “linger”. Cantor cuts off as soon as the bass note ends, so it feels clean and does not smear. On the other hand, Voltage feels like it “overshoot” the decay a bit. This difference in bass actually has implications on the rest of the response. When I listen to a busy track, a little bit lingering bass pulls the overall separation and clarity of Voltage down to <= Cantor. However, in sparse recording, the quad EST of Voltage resolves more details.

Which one is better? Hard to say. I want both

 

[Redcarmoose]

It still depends of the implementation and the quality material of balanced armature drivers, mate.

Some woofer BAs like from Knowles and Sonion delivers that DD-like sound but you will still noticed that tad hollowness feel, lack of depth and rumbling presence that you can only hear from true high quality dynamic driver. I myself prefers a hybrid driver configuration as I see more benefit of it like more fuller sound, better resolution and clarity that few DDs able to match but it depends how it was tuned.

I still have some good all-BA sets from Audiosense, See Audio and Hiby.

Best post in like 300 pages!

 

[SpaceOperaVillain]

1999 had the best movies...............

1999. Oi this was a doozy of a year in film with many a brilliant score. This one from Thomas Newman.

 

[nikbr]

Isn’t E-Audio the drivers used by AuR Audio? I remember folks going on and on about these drivers.

Speaking of which, where is AuR Audio nowadays?

I believe so. Aure is straight fire , whichever 6 BAs they used.
Aurora is a bit less magical, yet still well worth the 300€. 300??, I hear you asking. Isn't it ~500€? It is new, but I'm selling mine, like-new for 300€ over in the classifieds. Timeless design, free of logos and writing.

What's up with them nowadays, I'm not too sure, but I am hopeful their truly skilled tuner remains active.

 

[Redcarmoose]

1999. Oi this was a doozy of a year in film with many a brilliant score. This one from Thomas Newman.

HAHA, saw that in the theater, and the people walking out before (us) from the first screening before us had serious looks on their faces. I was like....what? There are so many movies from 1999........I don't want to derail this thread.

 

[jbfps116]

I have AE with gold nozzle so it’s not dark to me, better air than Que actually, but the sub bass not rolling off toward the end isn’t my preference. You just don’t get that flowing liquid movement of the bass bending and blending with the lower mids that makes those fundamentals come alive.

I've never thought of this as a good reason to have rolled-odd subbass... interesting idea for sure. I'm always "let's crank that subbass uphill all the way!"

Penon Fan 3 vs ISN H60, comparison review video:

If you want smooth , textured and relaxed presentation, detailed yet calm treble with deep and punchy bass, get the H60, it's an high quality IEM.
But if you like a bit more lively presentation and transparency with bigger area of impact, get the Fan 3. Easy.

Very interesting... I'm still looking for a reason to get or pass on the Fan 3... He mentions it has tighter bass but less weight than the H60...

I wonder how the S12 and the Fan 3 compare... I was enjoying the S12 with some classical music from my laptop [trying to ignore the ANNOYING streaming pops that happen now and then whether it's YouTube or Amazon music... anyone else have that problem?] but when I switched to the H60, I was struck how it felt like I was actually listening to an orchestra play... but an a dreamy way. The S12 sounds very correct and pleasing, but the H60 has better stage and presence. I know the Fan 3 has the BC magic, but I wonder how similar they sound because I don't need two mid-fi with similar qualities.

 

[SpaceOperaVillain]

HAHA, saw that in the theater, and the people walking out before (us) from the first screening before us had serious looks on their faces. I was like....what? There are so many movies from 1999........I don't want to derail this thread.

Meeee toooooo. I convinced my wife to stay downtown so we could watch it after work. Rave reviews! Catch a late dinner and drinks afterwards at some place nice, I said. After the film concluded, so many emotions played out behind a stone mask. Dinnerless, our Mercedes never felt so uninviting as it did during that quiet drive back home. This little vignette aside, I distinctly remember it as the year that felt like three.

 

[r31ya]

well one iem that got leaked by reviewers is officially released.
technically fourth gen planar iem by KZ, KZ PRX ($53)
https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-prx

along with the dig on pseudo-planar

the improvement target

the graph

Early impression by Jubilant Ear Review



PaulWasabi and Greg Sequoia also have review unit, so their review might coming soon.

Several early impression noted that it have V shape sound and rather good bass.
Tough new s12 just start new standard on good bass in planars (at 4x the price), so it should be interesting how far kz improve their bass (and smoothen the treble freq)

 

[nekoyama]

Hey guys, quick question, how's big are the shell and nozzle sizes of the Penon Fan 3 compared to H60? Sound wise I like the H60 but I have hard times with fitting, I can't keep it for long no matter what tips I use

 

[saldsald]

You can check out Crinacle's definition of BA timbre here, which I quite agree with: https://crinacle.com/2019/02/04/what-is-technical-ability-according-to-me-myself-and-i/

His description of "Plastic timbre" AKA BA timbre = some weightless and hollowness in notes due to a too fast decay. Usually this is more apparent in treble frequencies for acoustic instruments such as woodwinds and brasses for example.

However, not all BA types suffer from bad timbre, for example the Sony M9 uses some foam to damp the nozzles so the timbre is quite natural.

And timbre is very subjective. Some are not particular about it, and value other aspects like technical chops over timbre. Some listen to music genres which do not emphasize acoustic instruments but more of synthetic ones (so timbre may take a back seat). Some have not heard a real acoustic instrument up close so they don't have a baseline for timbre to compare with.

So nothing right or wrong, we have different priorities, and maybe it might be a blessing for you not to be picky about this so-called BA timbre!

Interesting, I myself despite really critical about bass quality, tonality and treble extension, I'm aware that I'm not strict about timbre judgement, or maybe like @o0genesis0o I also can't get right definition of "plasticky timbre" that sometimes got mentioned in reviews, while this "metallic timbre" thing is something very obvious to me, usually because of tonality in lower treble especially 5-6khz due the that decay you were talking about, or sometimes over ringing that made the tonality weird that we called it metallic timbre. Can be caused by bad driver, peaky driver undampened, or over ringing because of too much resonance because of bad dampening, etc. Mean while something with foam or cotton usually have great timbre because of the dampening material.

But then, I also quite observer about note weight so I guess it's the same thing with "plastic timbre" If yes, then its just about the term. lesson learnt.

My take here:
BA Timbre: for treble BAs, it is actually a resonance of the some portions of the treble that settles into some standading waves that can be louder than the fundamental frequencies. IMO it is often mislead by the measurable peaks on graphs. Those peaks usually cause a 'sharpened', piercing sound instead. BA timbre can actually be somewhat removed by carefully disturbing and prohibiting the resonance so this part is not related to decay. For other BAs, it is mostly related to the decay speed but should not be mixed up with treble BA timbre. Also, BAs are almost necessarily crossed that can result in higher degree of total harmonic distortion, which can exeggerate treble BA timbre.
Plastic timbre: it is mostly due to the absorption of the energy and the resultant smearing and clipping of the sound due to the material of the wave guide and the shell. This is why some IEMs with plastic shells are fitted with metallic nozzles. DDs suffers a lot more from plastic resonance than BAs as DDs rely on the resonance with the shell to give the final sound.

Metallic timbre: it is often associated with measurable peaks, simply it is just the sound being too sharp and peaky at certain resonance frequencies relative to other frequencies.