The discovery thread!

[Ferdinando1968]

Possible Aful cantor Graph from Facebook.

Look at that curve! That bass. That treble extension.

Approve!!!




Well done Aful!

I don't understand anything about graphs, but I've never seen a graph with that shape.
Why do you judge it positively?

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Fan 2.

I like an energetic sound and the Fan 2 was not that.

Fit wasn't a problem and insertion was deep so I believe I was hearing them as well as I could but nothing I tried could change the overly thick mid range and lack of crispness, energy and sparkle. I see a lot of praise for the Fan 2 but I also see folks that agree with me, I guess it is just a matter of taste ?

My ears are a couple of weeks away from being 57 and I have typical high frequency loss, I imagine that brighter tuned sets overcome that to some extent. For example the S12 Pro to me are beautifully tuned. Crisp for sure but the excess upper energy that some folks talk about isn't a problem in the slightest.

I suspect the Fan 2 lack of upper mid range and treble energy along with my aging ears makes them sound dull where to somebody younger they might be nicely balanced because they are getting more out of the little upper mid and treble energy that is present.

Hey brother, you are preaching to the choir LOL At least to me you are. But that's what makes this thread so exciting and in some ways frustrating, and that sifting through the impressions and the tunings that are ENJOYABLE to different ears. Me and you are similar in the aspect that we like some energy and clarity, while there's a very large segment here that are allergic to any type of energy, and like their vocals pushed to the forefront with thick syrup poured over them and bass bass bass with minimal crispness. So that Penon house sound you find in the Fan 2 makes for happy earholes for more than a few. I like ribbing these THICC lovers, but that makes this all fun and funny. Case in point, the EDC Pro love. It encapsulates this very notion, with thicker safer tunings with little energy or crispness being applauded by some, and boooooooo by others.

 

[OceanOfLight]

Perception of Sound and IEMs
The more time passes, the more I become aware of how much my perception of sound is altered by my physical condition. I’m not talking about anything extreme, but even within the same day, I feel I perceive the same tracks very differently depending on the time of day and the condition of my ears.

The most noticeable change has to be my enjoyment of high mids and treble frequencies. At the beginning of the day and in the early afternoon, I really love my highs. But come evening— and even worse, night—my tolerance for them decreases significantly. Even moderately bright IEMs tend to sound too bright for my taste at my usual listening volume. This is just the most evident change I’ve noticed, but there’s more. For example, after main meals (probably due to the start of digestion or the relative rise in blood sugar and the consequential sleepiness), the music tends to sound less defined, likely due to a drop in attention. Lack of sleep (even just moderate) is another fitting example. No matter how hard I try, I can’t possibly tolerate bright IEMs in that condition, and my enjoyment of music in that state is practically nonexistent.

The point of this post is that trying the wrong IEMs at the wrong time could potentially lead to unjustified dislike towards them. This could be mitigated by additional listening at different times or even in the following days, but here’s the catch: we buy way more IEMs than we actually need (you can’t argue with that!), so the potential listening time we can give to each of them is somewhat limited. I’d go as far as to bet that many “dislikes” towards certain IEMs could partially be caused by these "misunderstandings" and many more times than not they will remain so, caused not properly "cleared" by additional listening. Not surprising, considering that some of us - in all honesty, the vast majority of us - literally end up buying 3-4 IEMs at a time!

Pardon all my ramblings. I don’t know if you noticed, but I find it extremely interesting to directly notice and experience all these little things, and I like to share my thoughts here to see what your opinion is on the matter! I think it’s kind of fitting to the nature of the Discovery Thread! Or at least, that’s what I like to tell myself!

Little Update
My new IEMs box has arrived. I really like it; it’s way more spacious than my previous one, much sturdier and better looking! Overall, I'm extremely satisfied.

 

[Surf Monkey]

For starters, I do wish reviewers were more consistent in their reference material to review and compare staging. Live acoustic performances are really the only thing that count: could be chamber, opera, choral, jazz, orchestra, big band, a folk ensemble - genre doesn't matter as long as there were two mics and the event was recorded in stereo. Live instruments and voices have complete information - there is nothing between them and the microphone except the atmosphere, and hopefully the final mix doesn't EQ or filter too much information out of the track. The point is - find one, maybe two reference tracks and tell the reader what they are. There isn't a whole lot of point waxing poetically about how the staging is for rock / pop / EDM.

Secondly, does this help adjacent technical qualities like imaging and separation? Or does it just sound like an enhanced stereo effect? Do we really want our music to sound like it's been filtered through a reverb plugin in a DAW? I don't. Again, that's just sound coloration.

Third: does it offer anything over DSP based effects? As for some free software - Windows users can checkout FXSound. It's open source and been around a long time. After installation, find the "surround sound" slider and move it over a few notches. You can hear how the playback is affected when the stereo channels are cross-fed in subtle ways. Now - Does the BC driver sound better / equivalent / worse? What happens when you play a Dolby Atmos track?

https://github.com/fxsound2/fxsound-app

----------
Most everything about sound stage is already embedded in a recording and those decisions have already been made for you by the recording and mixing engineer(s). If a track sounds dry and narrow, a pair of headphones shouldn't make it sound "expansive", "3D", or "holographic". If it does, I maintain that this is just sound coloration.

Particularly with IEM there just isn't a lot of wiggle room here to increase or decrease staging. What sounds boring and average is in fact accurate. I'm listening to Bach here with a cheap set of single DDs and the staging sounds great. First, because it's an excellent recording, and secondly because DLC based diaphragms tend to be reasonably snappy and bright on the top end. Provided that the tuning doesn't kill the higher order harmonic overtones, an average pair of IEM should all basically render the track in the pretty much the same way.

https://music.amazon.fr/albums/B0D37ZCMMF?trackAsin=B0D37S4NWZ&ref=dm_sh_8220-250f-cb89-ef11-5892e

If you want to "see" what you hear on some of these things, watch this YT video - also from Bach's BWV 43.



Note the vocalist's mic. Front and center. Note the audio direction: split pretty evenly into both channels. Now look at how mics are positioned in front of the performers ... you're not hearing this from the perspective of an audience member, you're hearing what the mix engineer wants you to hear. There is some small amount of reverb coming from the venue back into the mics and it's a lovely sound, but it's not overdone, either.

But you’re under no obligation to buy a BCD set, and if demand for them is low companies will stop making them.

 

[DynamicEars]

LOL ok fine!

Haha that still mid bass bleed to me, since the bass raise is early on 300hz and at 100hz they are already +10db from netural point.
My ideal is flat lower mids until 200hz, and starting to raise up with sudden boost, but still around+5db at 100hz for clean mids, but have to reach +8 or +9db on 50-60hz for impactful punch, the extension of the sub bass is bonus for longer decay and rumble.

I don't understand anything about graphs, but I've never seen a graph with that shape.
Why do you judge it positively?

I created my target tuning since 5 or 6 years back with slight revision through the year,

1. the bass will be minimum bleed, but still have good punch and impact on bass transient attack
2. high mids are maxed on +8db pinna gain area for nice amount, never go shouty
3. treble amount, scoop for anti sibilance must be on proper amout, not losing detail, not sibilance but "bitey enough" and have great treble extension at least until 12khz for sharper imaging too.

looks like simple 3 point requirements but past 5 years from hundreds of IEMs, only few got ticked that all of 3 points right, and mostly from TOTL sets. But rest assure, 2024 is time where manufacturer finally derail from harman target that too shouty, and realize this kind of tuning is "better", even collaborators also have better tuning rather too harmanish in yesteryears.

Back to that Cantor tuning, the graph is stretched but have kinda similar to my target tuning, well not perfect since I may prefer more subbass but its very close one.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Still have my JD7. Fiio doesn't even sell it anymore. Such a shame really.

Exactly. Got really good reviews, but it was Jade Series, and secondly, it started life as a budget set, but you can't buy it for MSRP anymore. It's over $100.00 wherever you can find it.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Funny since we talked about EDC Pro earlier

LOL Thanks. Gave me another good laugh, Leo. KZ has upped their imaginary marketing game.

 

[MakeItWain]

Nope. Going gonzo on bass shelf but not equalizing it with treble, which was the special sauce trademark of the FatFreq, will be the curse of the Deuce. Yet, he'll complain about the complaints afterwards. He always does.

Sorry brother, final tuning ended up being different.

Was my bad.

Edit: Sample Crin Deuce was the one I shared yesterday but was an older sample and updated incorrectly.

 

[Ferdinando1968]

Definitely tempted by Sivga, especially after suman 's review. And my experience with Nightingale.

I took it, no matter what.

 

[domq422]

Also, Estrella is looking like it'll be a special entry. You getting commission on your fire photos?

hahah no commission but it's okay, it's for a friend so no commission needed. Jay is trying his best to get me some form of compensation if the images are to be used for marketing but no promises as of yet, which is totally fine. Thank you for your compliments, by the way!

I'll be checking my mailbox daily

Ohhhh yes, it'll be any day now

 

[Ferdinando1968]

Perception of Sound and IEMs
The more time passes, the more I become aware of how much my perception of sound is altered by my physical condition. I’m not talking about anything extreme, but even within the same day, I feel I perceive the same tracks very differently depending on the time of day and the condition of my ears.

The most noticeable change has to be my enjoyment of high mids and treble frequencies. At the beginning of the day and in the early afternoon, I really love my highs. But come evening— and even worse, night—my tolerance for them decreases significantly. Even moderately bright IEMs tend to sound too bright for my taste at my usual listening volume. This is just the most evident change I’ve noticed, but there’s more. For example, after main meals (probably due to the start of digestion or the relative rise in blood sugar and the consequential sleepiness), the music tends to sound less defined, likely due to a drop in attention. Lack of sleep (even just moderate) is another fitting example. No matter how hard I try, I can’t possibly tolerate bright IEMs in that condition, and my enjoyment of music in that state is practically nonexistent.

The point of this post is that trying the wrong IEMs at the wrong time could potentially lead to unjustified dislike towards them. This could be mitigated by additional listening at different times or even in the following days, but here’s the catch: we buy way more IEMs than we actually need (you can’t argue with that!), so the potential listening time we can give to each of them is somewhat limited. I’d go as far as to bet that many “dislikes” towards certain IEMs could partially be caused by these "misunderstandings" and many more times than not they will remain so and caused not "cleared" by any additional listening. Not surprising, considering that some of us - in all honesty, the vast majority of us - literally end up buying 3-4 IEMs at a time!

Pardon all my ramblings. I don’t know if you noticed, but I find it extremely interesting to directly notice and experience all these little things, and I like to share my thoughts here to see what your opinion is on the matter! I think it’s kind of fitting to the nature of the Discovery Thread! Or at least, that’s what I like to tell myself!

Little Update
My new IEMs box has arrived. I really like it; it’s way more spacious than my previous one, much sturdier and better looking! Overall, I'm extremely satisfied.

What you wrote is very true.

It took me some time to understand when I am
predisposed to a valid sound judgment or not.
And most of the time I am not.

That is why I need a lot of time when I want to make
comparisons.

I will tell you that even for the choice of the right tips,
I have to feel 'in shape'.

 

[Ineras]

What you wrote is very true.

It took me some time to understand when I am
predisposed to a valid sound judgment or not.
And most of the time I am not.

That is why I need a lot of time when I want to make
comparisons.

I will tell you that even for the choice of the right tips,
I have to feel 'in shape'.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

I have the Libra incoming if it eventually leaves China haha... I passed on this EDC pro and I think that was a good call. I already have a lot of cheap single DDs and I happen to really like the QKZ titan... also getting that ND Venus people talked about here, the Wyvern, etc.

My Wyvern Abyss is out for delivery! I'm excited for this one. I don't know why, as I've been warned it's not my style, and I'm aware of that, but it's so PRETTY, and I've been surprised by "not my style" before (Piccolo, HeartMirror ZERO, WG T-ONE), so I retain some excitement as this one enters my sphere.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

There are so many single DDs out on the market, and sometimes it feels like KZ is selling half of them

Speaking of single DD IEM - is Linsoul really selling Tripowin's Piccolo for ten bucks?! Deities give me strength, but it feels criminal to not order a pair.

The Piccolo would be a great value at $20.00, but at $9.99, it's an intense value. Just toss the absolutely crapola cable, and the build and sound quality are top notch.

 

[Ferdinando1968]

How you get these images remains a mystery to me.