[s2kphile]

Starting that Traillii clone showdown. Some still require burn in and my Alita needs to come back from tour. Will any of these knock my Alita from my #1 spot. Stay tuned...

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Is TinHiFi T2 Plus a single driver example of this?



Seems to be missing the 5.5kHz dip that qdc is (Probably?) known for. But other than than that I wonder whether this is coincidence by Tin HiFi or not.

From my experience, qdc tuning doesn’t work for dynamic driver unfortunately.

If you tune dynamic driver like that, it will sound nasal. Too much energy in mid, which masks the transparency.

If the dynamic driver is less powerful and kicks less air into your canal, that qdc tuning still works to a certain degree, Moondrop’s Quarks DSP is lowest offering.

I didn’t mention Quarks DSP earlier because I set the technicality bar to “decent” B grade. Quarks DSP’s technicality is C, OK level, with pretty fun and nice timbre.

I’d say it’s a little baby of Elysian Gaea, but you get the flat pinna tuning at a certain degree.

oh yes and you are right about sibilance dip around 6khz, that qdc use to trim the edge of their timbre rounded.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Starting that Traillii clone showdown. Some still require burn in and my Alita needs to come back from tour. Will any of these knock my Alita from my #1 spot. Stay tuned...

That will be interesting!

 

[ian91]

Starting that Traillii clone showdown. Some still require burn in and my Alita needs to come back from tour. Will any of these knock my Alita from my #1 spot. Stay tuned...

Hurts me a little inside when Mentawai is called a Traillii clone. The more I listen, the more that 10mm DD makes it something completely of its own lineage. Regardless, I'm looking forward to your insights!

(full disclosure: I have likened it to the Traillii in the past but 'clone' suggests something very close indeed)

 

[ChrisOc]

Akros video on the Pure Planar, SPD, Micro Planar controversies.



My view is as the same as the TRN Xuanwu, driver innovation today may be tomorrow's traditional driver but manufacturers need to be upfront about it.

 

[JEHL]

I'm sure if I caught anything of what you said to me. But I'll try to do so anyway.

If you tune dynamic driver like that, it will sound nasal. Too much energy in mid, which masks the transparency.

This is actually the expected behavior rather than the exception to me! I need the other half of this story. Why does it make sense to tune plateaus from 1.5kHz to 8kHz from BA drivers? Feel like this may clarify the missing piece of the puzzle to me.

If the dynamic driver is less powerful and kicks less air into your canal, that qdc tuning still works to a certain degree, Moondrop’s Quarks DSP is lowest offering.

I didn’t mention Quarks DSP earlier because I set the technicality bar to “decent” B grade. Quarks DSP’s technicality is C, OK level, with pretty fun and nice timbre.

In this context the definition of powerful remains, unclear to me, so I'd better skip that. The kicks less air into the canal also don't quite understand since assuming the volume between the driver and the eardrum are static, and the loudness level is static then the air moved should also be a static value regardless of driver... In theory anyway.

However! I just happen to search spectral waterfall so here's the 1st relevant graphs I stumbled using the internal search engine... Alongside the quote they come from:

Spectrum plot (Cumulative Spectral Decay plot) can reveal much more than Frequency Response. From plot, you can see that from 100Hz to 5KHz EXK's decay is really fast and really uniform, that's why it's sound is 'special'. And EXK's high peak and long decay time at 6k Hz and 9k Hz maybe it's infamous 'sibilant' issue.

Frequency Response curve equal to Cumulative Spectral Decay plot's top-most line (the line at time t=0).
I think the HiFi community should abandon the tradition of using FR curve, because FR curve is pretty useless, it doesn't have real meaningful relation with the ear's perceived sound.
It's like 'Blind Men and the Elephant' analogy, Frequency Response plot is like only touching the back ridge of the elephant. Cumulative Spectral Decay is a full 3D scan of the elephant. HiFi community shall start using spectral plot as official language.

SONY EXK:

64 Audio Nio (with MX):

u12t:

I think this is the point where I understood why it's so often said that the Sony MDR-EX1000 had no equal when it comes to soundstage. And Crinacle rating it S- technical grade. Maybe it'd been an easy S+ if it didn't stumble at 6kHz... well that and the FR kind of dies past 12kHz or so.

And hopefully I don't need to explain that ringing on an IEM driver is bad. Ringing on a bell is good because ringing is the whole purpose of the bell. The ideal IEM should send the exact signal that was mixed in the recording (flavors?) notwithstanding (if you want extra bass, treble or midrange in your reproduction, I'm neither in position to stop you nor I want to. I'm a bass head after all, so FATfreq maestro mini is probably my endgame). This makes any ringing bad as its adding sound that isn't present in the mix. Of course in reality this is impossible because you'd require a membrane thats somehow infinitely rigid in order to have a memrane that has a perfectly pistonic movement and literally no mass, probably a BA with a zero mass armature because the coil in a moving coil obviously also has mass.

Wonder if someone has measured the CSD of the IER-Z1R. But I'll try searching in the morning. Maybe the perfect IEM was the MDR-EX1000 with some BA tweeters to prevent the 16mm DD from ringing like a... Triangle?

... Are you all tired of the ranting of an INTP in a desperate attempt to understand the logic of audio equipment yet. And yes if I haven't made it clear. I'm more interested in the idea of designing IEMs rather than reviewing/collecting... The BLON BL-03 is still the only IEM I own after all.

Before anyone asks I do go to Home made IEMs thread quite often... Maybe I should go there more often.

And don't even get me started on harmonic distortion. I sometimes feel like slapping Crinacle's face because he refuses to show us this. I think he cited fear of misinforming as the reason. But if he's afraid of misinforming his fanbase... Maybe his methodology is incomplete if not wrong outright.

 

[gadgetgod]

Akros video on the Pure Planar, SPD, Micro Planar controversies.



My view is as the same as the TRN Xuanwu, driver innovation today may be tomorrow's traditional driver but manufacturers need to be upfront about it.

I am also tearing down my unit of Rinko with the help of a friend. I am myself not educated enough to create a full tear down and not damage the unit lol, but I have asked a friend of mine who helps me with modding stuff to help out a little. Will share more details in my final review.

 

[o0genesis0o]

I'm sure if I caught anything of what you said to me. But I'll try to do so anyway.

This is actually the expected behavior rather than the exception to me! I need the other half of this story. Why does it make sense to tune plateaus from 1.5kHz to 8kHz from BA drivers? Feel like this may clarify the missing piece of the puzzle to me.

In this context the definition of powerful remains, unclear to me, so I'd better skip that. The kicks less air into the canal also don't quite understand since assuming the volume between the driver and the eardrum are static, and the loudness level is static then the air moved should also be a static value regardless of driver... In theory anyway.

However! I just happen to search spectral waterfall so here's the 1st relevant graphs I stumbled using the internal search engine... Alongside the quote they come from:

I think this is the point where I understood why it's so often said that the Sony MDR-EX1000 had no equal when it comes to soundstage. And Crinacle rating it S- technical grade. Maybe it'd been an easy S+ if it didn't stumble at 6kHz... well that and the FR kind of dies past 12kHz or so.

And hopefully I don't need to explain that ringing on an IEM driver is bad. Ringing on a bell is good because ringing is the whole purpose of the bell. The ideal IEM should send the exact signal that was mixed in the recording (flavors?) notwithstanding (if you want extra bass, treble or midrange in your reproduction, I'm neither in position to stop you nor I want to. I'm a bass head after all, so FATfreq maestro mini is probably my endgame). This makes any ringing bad as its adding sound that isn't present in the mix. Of course in reality this is impossible because you'd require a membrane thats somehow infinitely rigid in order to have a memrane that has a perfectly pistonic movement and literally no mass, probably a BA with a zero mass armature because the coil in a moving coil obviously also has mass.

Wonder if someone has measured the CSD of the IER-Z1R. But I'll try searching in the morning. Maybe the perfect IEM was the MDR-EX1000 with some BA tweeters to prevent the 16mm DD from ringing like a... Triangle?

... Are you all tired of the ranting of an INTP in a desperate attempt to understand the logic of audio equipment yet. And yes if I haven't made it clear. I'm more interested in the idea of designing IEMs rather than reviewing/collecting... The BLON BL-03 is still the only IEM I own after all.

Before anyone asks I do go to Home made IEMs thread quite often... Maybe I should go there more often.

And don't even get me started on harmonic distortion. I sometimes feel like slapping Crinacle's face because he refuses to show us this. I think he cited fear of misinforming as the reason. But if he's afraid of misinforming his fanbase... Maybe his methodology is incomplete if not wrong outright.

Well, IMHO, FR does one purpose, which is to show the tonal balance. If one knows what to look for, one can predict quite a bit and avoid many disappointing purchases.

I don’t think casual geeks like myself has the expertise to look at other types of measurements and try to relate them to IEM designs or to quantify technical performance. Not to mention that toy rigs like my coupler has little chance of producing trustworthy data about distortion and likes.

---

Speaking of bass, you should grab a 7hz legato if you are a basshead on a budget. I can’t think of any new releases tuned like that. It’s not V-shaped. The geeky side of me would say it’s “elegantly” tuned, due to the smart balance they achieved. On a less geeky note, that IEM slams your head off with bassy music, but know to step back when the music is not bassy (orchestral, string quartet, etc)

 

[Tzennn]

I'm sure if I caught anything of what you said to me. But I'll try to do so anyway.

This is actually the expected behavior rather than the exception to me! I need the other half of this story. Why does it make sense to tune plateaus from 1.5kHz to 8kHz from BA drivers? Feel like this may clarify the missing piece of the puzzle to me.

In this context the definition of powerful remains, unclear to me, so I'd better skip that. The kicks less air into the canal also don't quite understand since assuming the volume between the driver and the eardrum are static, and the loudness level is static then the air moved should also be a static value regardless of driver... In theory anyway.

However! I just happen to search spectral waterfall so here's the 1st relevant graphs I stumbled using the internal search engine... Alongside the quote they come from:

I think this is the point where I understood why it's so often said that the Sony MDR-EX1000 had no equal when it comes to soundstage. And Crinacle rating it S- technical grade. Maybe it'd been an easy S+ if it didn't stumble at 6kHz... well that and the FR kind of dies past 12kHz or so.

And hopefully I don't need to explain that ringing on an IEM driver is bad. Ringing on a bell is good because ringing is the whole purpose of the bell. The ideal IEM should send the exact signal that was mixed in the recording (flavors?) notwithstanding (if you want extra bass, treble or midrange in your reproduction, I'm neither in position to stop you nor I want to. I'm a bass head after all, so FATfreq maestro mini is probably my endgame). This makes any ringing bad as its adding sound that isn't present in the mix. Of course in reality this is impossible because you'd require a membrane thats somehow infinitely rigid in order to have a memrane that has a perfectly pistonic movement and literally no mass, probably a BA with a zero mass armature because the coil in a moving coil obviously also has mass.

Wonder if someone has measured the CSD of the IER-Z1R. But I'll try searching in the morning. Maybe the perfect IEM was the MDR-EX1000 with some BA tweeters to prevent the 16mm DD from ringing like a... Triangle?

... Are you all tired of the ranting of an INTP in a desperate attempt to understand the logic of audio equipment yet. And yes if I haven't made it clear. I'm more interested in the idea of designing IEMs rather than reviewing/collecting... The BLON BL-03 is still the only IEM I own after all.

Before anyone asks I do go to Home made IEMs thread quite often... Maybe I should go there more often.

And don't even get me started on harmonic distortion. I sometimes feel like slapping Crinacle's face because he refuses to show us this. I think he cited fear of misinforming as the reason. But if he's afraid of misinforming his fanbase... Maybe his methodology is incomplete if not wrong outright.

Oh hi INTP, I'm an ENTP, so i think why most of DD can't do a valley like BA simply because of the shell/chamber. Usually with plastic/abs shell, there's more gain around 2khz which is usually make it shouty, Metal usually boost about 4,5khz which sound more "detail", with full BA or hybrid set, you usually see full resin with tube inside to direct sound right into your ears so less echoing, less unwanted peek, more fluid/natural sound!

 

[gadgetgod]

Had to see myself what was inside. So I tore apart my Rinko today. It houses two driver units, one a dynamic driver and another a flat diaphragm driver. It's diaphragm is slightly different than what we have images of as a proper planar unit, but the diaphragm is flat in nature. Although I ended up sacrificing my unit lol, left side Planar casing got damaged by my newbie's hands

Will share high-res images later in the review post.

 

[Redcarmoose]

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/imr-bc-2023-dual-dynamic-driver-iem.26426/

Another review!

 

[AudioNewbie76]

SeeAudio X Zeos Rinko is getting some backlash due to their driver apparently not being a "micro planar driver", as claimed in the marketing materials.

HBB opened them up only to find no signs of a planar driver. It's a very cheap piezo film instead.

Guess people are mostly paying for the sleazy artwork here, but this misleading and false marketing by Chi-Fi brands must stop. TangZu is a serial offender, and now SeeAudio has joined in too.

Their Hifigo page has a link to a patent that resembles a Planar magnetic, although I'm not sure if it's actually referring to the driver in question, or its just some random driver. My inability to read Chinese doesn't help either, so if there's someone in this thread more proficient in Chinese, maybe you could attempt to read through

 

[AudioNewbie76]

Graph of Geekwold GK100 via IEC711 coupler. 8 kHz is a coupler artefact peak.



Some initial OOTB impressions for the GK100 are here on the Geekwold thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/geek-wold-discussion.958787/page-105#post-17504630

TLDR: it is a very technical, airy/sparkly and analytical set, though not for bassheads or treble-sensitive folk. Very clean sounding, good tool for critical listening.





In this day and age when lay consumers have the tools and knowledge to open IEMs and graph IEMs, I think manufacturers must now realize they cannot pull shenanigans without getting discovered sooner or later.

Penny wise pound foolish - saving some money here and there with "cheaper" drivers, might do the company's rep irreparable damage down the line. And it just takes one screw up to undo months and years of good reputation.

Looks surprisingly alright for how much they're cramming in for the price

 

[lushmelody]

Had to see myself what was inside. So I tore apart my Rinko today. It houses two driver units, one a dynamic driver and another a flat diaphragm driver. It's diaphragm is slightly different than what we have images of as a proper planar unit, but the diaphragm is flat in nature. Although I ended up sacrificing my unit lol, left side Planar casing got damaged by my newbie's hands

Will share high-res images later in the review post.

Maybe a MST or PZT... Seeaudio needs to address what exactly that is

 

[gadgetgod]

Maybe a MST or PZT... Seeaudio needs to address what exactly that is

Well, yeah i can't deny that. Also this is my first tear down(that also ended up ruining due to my mishandling lol). The diaphragm coil is flat although it doesn't have that texture that usual headphone drivers show on the internet(with those lines and all). It's just flat and have dual magnets on both the sides.