The discovery thread!

[PhonoPhi]

That’s … actually a good question.

TOTL literally means the top of a product line. Say, FiiO FH9 is the TOTL of all of their IEMs, the best that FiiO as an IEM manufacturer can do. But would IEM snobs (around here) call FH9 TOTL? Unlikely.

At the same time, something like U12t is, arguably, the TOTL, yet it is not the top of 64 Audio line (that honor lies with the weird sounding Fourte).

TOTL used to be Andromeda 2020, M9, Z1R, that kind of IEMs. And now it indicates the Indigo, the Jewel, the “birds”, Storm (pushing 6k USD now). I have zero idea how much better these can sound.

But, in my hands at the moment are the Andromeda 2020 and Gaea, and I can tell you they still do the imaging and resolution so well that there is still a gap with some nice “mid-fi” IEM like the AFUL P5 (yup, mid-fi is another messy word. Let’s not touch that)

To me, no outstanding imaging + tack sharp resolution + revealing rarely details = no TOTL, regardless how expensive something is.

I grasped the abbreviation.
Yet, TRN " top of the line" is hardly "TOTL", right?
At the same time, the highest priced product of "established companies", no matter how floppy the product is, can apparently be (?)

Then in quite few of the threads here TOTLs are trashed around by critical minds even more viscerally than KZ products by aspiring reviewers.

Further into it: would the "TOTL" sound be even more subjective?

For instance, the primary driving force in my IEM quest is the reproduction of the violin (and string quartets) sound.

Can the best sound of violin be defined (a lot of factors can be brought here), further considering that recordings are made just for two points in space for the reproduction of 3-D sound wavefronts?

Nevertheless, the pleasing enhancements of overtone series are fairly understood, so the sound reproduction can be modified to sound more pleasing and euphonic.
Is this the winning "MSG" approach to "TOTL" sound (??)

More questions than answers...

 

[domq422]

If one was interested in purchasing an IEM from AüR, what is the best way? Can’t find them on any major sites as I know these are a small outfit run by a small team. Also, how about the Sound Rhyme SR5? Definitely interested in looking at the SR5 and the Neon pro as I’ve heard so many good things about both of them from you gentleman. Thanks

 

[o0genesis0o]

Can the best sound of violin be defined (a lot of factors can be brought here), further considering that recordings are made just for two points in space for the reproduction of 3-D sound wavefronts?

I have no more to offer on the TOTL topic, but regarding the violin reproduction, I have an issue: unless you know how the violin (and the violinist) sounds in real life (like, the exact violin and exact person, not just how violin sounds in general), how do you know how spot on the reproduction is? Some example issues:

• I have no idea how the Strad used by Itzhak Perlman when recording the Bach Sonatas and Partitas sounds. Is it a brighter one? A darker one? How do I know what is hear is exactly the same as the tone of that violin at that time?
• On my hands at the moment are 3 IEMs. All of them reproduce the Partitas with varying degree of brightness, but all three sounds realistic. Which one should be better, or all three are acceptable?
• How my violin sounds when recorded is very different from how I hear when I play it. Which is the real sound?
• Speaking of sound reproduction, I’ve been to a local concert recently, and it suddenly hit me that a life ensemble is less detailed and the cellos & double basses are way boomier than the “well-tuned” IEMs. Does that mean boomy tuning is ”correct”?

Speaking of reproduction, my favourite Bach Partitas and Goldberg Variations reproduction is actually done by a cheap and ignored IEM called JD7. The close second would be the Meze Advar (another ignored IEM, it seems)

 

[requal]

Kiwi Ears Cadenza are quite unique sounding iems. I despised them at first, but their natural timbre is unmistakable.
They are probably my favorite dynamics in my possession and I choose them more often than, for example, the Tripowin Olina SE which is less natural and brighter, but with better "technicalities" (Is it really technicalities, if it makes sound also less pleasant?).

 

[baskingshark]

I have no more to offer on the TOTL topic, but regarding the violin reproduction, I have an issue: unless you know how the violin (and the violinist) sounds in real life (like, the exact violin and exact person, not just how violin sounds in general), how do you know how spot on the reproduction is? Some example issues:

• I have no idea how the Strad used by Itzhak Perlman when recording the Bach Sonatas and Partitas sounds. Is it a brighter one? A darker one? How do I know what is hear is exactly the same as the tone of that violin at that time?
• On my hands at the moment are 3 IEMs. All of them reproduce the Partitas with varying degree of brightness, but all three sounds realistic. Which one should be better, or all three are acceptable?
• How my violin sounds when recorded is very different from how I hear when I play it. Which is the real sound?
• Speaking of sound reproduction, I’ve been to a local concert recently, and it suddenly hit me that a life ensemble is less detailed and the cellos & double basses are way boomier than the “well-tuned” IEMs. Does that mean boomy tuning is ”correct”?

Speaking of reproduction, my favourite Bach Partitas and Goldberg Variations reproduction is actually done by a cheap and ignored IEM called JD7. The close second would be the Meze Advar (another ignored IEM, it seems)

Yes timbral accuracy is a huge can of worms to dive into. I would define timbre AKA timbral accuracy as "what lets us tell apart a musical instrument or voice, even when they are hitting the same note at the same fundamental pitch and loudness".

As you rightly pointed out, unless you have heard the actual violin or vocal singer in real life, it is hard to tell if a transducer reproduces the violin or vocal overtones and resonances correctly.

But suffice to say, it is easy to tell if a transducer flops at timbral accuracy. I have heard some piezo/planar type IEMs, where a violin sounds like a cello, or a saxaphone/stringed instrument sounds totally plasticky and off.

 

[MVVp]

One could argue that when little details that are part of the real life event or rendition are removed by either the recording, mastering etc. or further down the chain, in the source or speakers, headphones or earphones, that makes the sound more pleasant. However, I like to hear the reality. Even if that includes a moment when someone turns over a page during a classical rendition and the microphone picks it up, or you can hear fingers sliding on a string.

Also, we may not know exactly what timbre is correct for a certain stradivarius, but we can hear it if some of the details are missing.

 

[Leonarfd]

If one was interested in purchasing an IEM from AüR, what is the best way? Can’t find them on any major sites as I know these are a small outfit run by a small team. Also, how about the Sound Rhyme SR5? Definitely interested in looking at the SR5 and the Neon pro as I’ve heard so many good things about both of them from you gentleman. Thanks

https://www.auraudio.store/
Going back some months it was only possible to buy trough Facebook or Mail.
Having talked some with Nicholas from AüR the reasoning behind not being in normal stores is due to freedom of choice and to push the price down.
Not mentioning names of stores here, but there has been controversy with some of them. Making life hard for smaller makers. At least here you know where the money you buy for goes to the makers.

In about a month I'm also getting the Aure model(1dd + 6 BA) that is cheaper and tuned more W shaped similar to the Penon Fan 2 but with Abel's tuning.
Since I don't have tested it I can no comment on how it sounds yet, but I'm happy to share when it arrives.
I know many who has this as their favourite from the line-up.

I know they are closing their store from 10-31 March to work on their next model.

Also the AüR thread
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aÜr-audio-iems.965140/

Also did try NP with some higher impedance with my OTL last night, got a nice photo out from it

 

[Leonarfd]

EDIT: Oops wrong thread, was supposed to be in what your listening to now. Anyways Il let it stay

E70 -- Feliks Audio Echo -- AüR Audio Neon Pro
Trying some tube magic with this IEM, darker and full bodied sound.
Testing out a artist I got recommended, Jazz with roots from India. Not sure about sub genre its more on the contemporary style or fusion.

​

 

[saldsald]

Hope you test the rumor of KZ did network damping on their $20 ZVX, that will be interesting on KZ’s capability. Smaller shops aren’t capable enough to do those with low cost segment.




Welcome to the dark side(?). Sorry for your wallet if cables also comes on shopping list

Yea according to the words from 7hz I think this kind of circuit should be on the back of the DD but not inside so it should be visible by just opening up the shell. KZ's statement is quite bold but it is one to be verified carefully through experiments.

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Calling all metalheads!!! If you are a tried and true lover of heavy metal in all it's forms and sub genres, from power to thrash to black to death to metalcore to progressive to 80's heavy metal, the Kiwi Ears Cadenza is something you must own in your collection, and at $35.00 on Amazon, an absolute no brainer if you're into this kind of music.

 

[PhonoPhi]

I have no more to offer on the TOTL topic, but regarding the violin reproduction, I have an issue: unless you know how the violin (and the violinist) sounds in real life (like, the exact violin and exact person, not just how violin sounds in general), how do you know how spot on the reproduction is? Some example issues:

• I have no idea how the Strad used by Itzhak Perlman when recording the Bach Sonatas and Partitas sounds. Is it a brighter one? A darker one? How do I know what is hear is exactly the same as the tone of that violin at that time?
• On my hands at the moment are 3 IEMs. All of them reproduce the Partitas with varying degree of brightness, but all three sounds realistic. Which one should be better, or all three are acceptable?
• How my violin sounds when recorded is very different from how I hear when I play it. Which is the real sound?
• Speaking of sound reproduction, I’ve been to a local concert recently, and it suddenly hit me that a life ensemble is less detailed and the cellos & double basses are way boomier than the “well-tuned” IEMs. Does that mean boomy tuning is ”correct”?

Speaking of reproduction, my favourite Bach Partitas and Goldberg Variations reproduction is actually done by a cheap and ignored IEM called JD7. The close second would be the Meze Advar (another ignored IEM, it seems)

Yes timbral accuracy is a huge can of worms to dive into. I would define timbre AKA timbral accuracy as "what lets us tell apart a musical instrument or voice, even when they are hitting the same note at the same fundamental pitch and loudness".

As you rightly pointed out, unless you have heard the actual violin or vocal singer in real life, it is hard to tell if a transducer reproduces the violin or vocal overtones and resonances correctly.

But suffice to say, it is easy to tell if a transducer flops at timbral accuracy. I have heard some piezo/planar type IEMs, where a violin sounds like a cello, or a saxaphone/stringed instrument sounds totally plasticky and off.

One could argue that when little details that are part of the real life event or rendition are removed by either the recording, mastering etc. or further down the chain, in the source or speakers, headphones or earphones, that makes the sound more pleasant. However, I like to hear the reality. Even if that includes a moment when someone turns over a page during a classical rendition and the microphone picks it up, or you can hear fingers sliding on a string.

Also, we may not know exactly what timbre is correct for a certain stradivarius, but we can hear it if some of the details are missing.

Excellent points!

Just to add few more, barely touching the surface, but not to divert further this thread: even for the same violin, changing strings (even just an E string) can change its timbre significantly. A good player also can produce different sound that you won't recognize the same violin.

Then what brings even more complexity - the recording distance: very different (often quite harsher, especially for good violins) sound close to the strings - the timbre changes by different overtones and picking up all the richness of string-bow interactions. Close recordings are mostly avoided, given all extra sounds, such as player breathing, are there.

Finally, peaking in Karajan's recording era - orchestral recordings were done in multiple points, and then for solo instruments, etc, they were picked up closer, for much more engaging and diverse experience when good sound engineers do their job. One of the side results - many started to prefer to listen to recordings rather than live performances with people and their noises, etc...

 

[Ianus]

If somebody is interested
TempoTec Serenade X Desktop HIFI Player with 73 USD discount:

The coupon is expiring today.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0kU8P4

 

[NymPHONOmaniac]

Since GSaudio is obscure for alot of people (apart some people from this thread!), I think its worth sharing my SE12 review.
While I don't find the mid range perfect for my taste timbre and tone wise, the treble is truely magnificent and fascinating. If you have deep pockets and seek an IEM that will fully make you taste electrostatic drivers flavor, this is the one to try imo, since both Kinera Urd and Mangird Xenn Up have rather understated EST presence.
Treble head delicacy!

THE PLUS: -Class leading resolution -well balanced Vivid W shape signature -fast, textured, well define and separated bass -impressive bass extension for BA woofer -incredible technical performance -excellent imaging and layering -fast snappy attack with good lead impact and note weight -clean transparent well resolve mid range -lighting fast treble response -sharp crisp sparkly brilliant highs -very extended treble with good air on top -x ray micro details retreival without unwanted noise artefact -energic and analytical without being intensely trebly or harsh -open and deep airy soundstage

THE MINUS: -not for tone or timbre lover -slightly recessed mids with hint of BA timbre -treble is a bit over the top in term of sharpness and fowardness -while excellent, bass cut short in rumble so bass line is more about presence than vibrant extension -not the most competitively priced

 

[NymPHONOmaniac]

If somebody is interested
TempoTec Serenade X Desktop HIFI Player with 73 USD discount:

The coupon is expiring today.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0kU8P4

I have this.
it was on sale quite often before, under 250$....

apart the very nice feature, sound and amping power wise it doesnt worth it alas. I would buy Tempotec HD V over this any day.

 

[bryaudioreviews]

I tried to update my SHIO but keep running into issues on my Windows Laptop not recognizing the DAC. Anyone have similar issues?



I bought one after watching his review. Tony is a upstanding guy and I enjoy his in depth thoughts, comparsions, but more importantly his consistency. He was the reason I discovered more of the obscure, smaller boutique IEMs. Saved me a lot of money from buying more expensive mainstream brands.

I totally missed out on this. My bad
I do not have any issues updating my SHIO. Maybe you can try installing the ASIO drivers first? Not sure if that will help or no