[o0genesis0o]

On positive side, isnt that good? Means Manufacturers know how to tune IEM nowadays, but what take them so long btw? like years to realize balance tuning with good extension.
Still, only few IEMs especially budget and midfi class that have really good extension past 10khz and I wonder why, from 100 budget and midfi IEMs maybe only less than 20% have good high extension? Pula PA02 is one of the few.

Of course more good options at a cheaper price is good. I still like my $$$$$$ IEMs and still want to buy more if I can, but it's getting less and less compelling. Anyhow, what I meant is last year, it was such an excitement when I listened to the P8 and realise that a budget friendly(friendlier) option can really trade blows with the likes of Andromeda 2020 on technical performance without breaking a sweat. It was something special. And now more and more sets can do that. It feels like my "hunt" has finished.

I'm starting to appreciate good treble quality vs having a lot of 14kHz (aka 64 audio style). Some IEMs render cymbals, hats, trumpets, and harmonics in general with such details and nuances, without piercing or having a lot of extra "air." This is something I wish to understand more in the future. How does that happen.

Now, if only ChiFi can do the same progression magic with DAP and DAC/AMP. R8II/M17 sound at $500, anyone?

 

[Uprox]

Still, only few IEMs especially budget and midfi class that have really good extension past 10khz and I wonder why, from 100 budget and midfi IEMs maybe only less than 20% have good high extension? Pula PA02 is one of the few.

I guess there are less than 20% of audiophiles are enjoying by high extension. Maybe due to music styles they are listening to.

 

[DynamicEars]

Of course more good options at a cheaper price is good. I still like my $$$$$$ IEMs and still want to buy more if I can, but it's getting less and less compelling. Anyhow, what I meant is last year, it was such an excitement when I listened to the P8 and realise that a budget friendly(friendlier) option can really trade blows with the likes of Andromeda 2020 on technical performance without breaking a sweat. It was something special. And now more and more sets can do that. It feels like my "hunt" has finished.

I'm starting to appreciate good treble quality vs having a lot of 14kHz (aka 64 audio style). Some IEMs render cymbals, hats, trumpets, and harmonics in general with such details and nuances, without piercing or having a lot of extra "air." This is something I wish to understand more in the future. How does that happen.

Now, if only ChiFi can do the same progression magic with DAP and DAC/AMP. R8II/M17 sound at $500, anyone?

12-13khz where the technicalities (imaging) are, I guess quality of the drivers can't lie, and with good damper implementation. Too bad I just open Crin's measurement cause the only place I found Sony IER-Z1R without damper was there when he was using IEC711 but not anymore since he replaced with B&K measurement system.
Sony tuned their IEM with extreme treble (differently for different model) but same damping tech, with extreme treble first, then damped by high density foam to absorb edges, so their trebles are detailed yet so smooth (and sounded more natural). The foam density and quantity really matters here, I have different density tuning foam for mods, and small amount differences when cutting can make different sound so measurement rig is really needed here to mod with foam.
Something like knowles damping also can be used in the tube, with similar concept, tune the trebles extremely high, then reduce back with damper to bring smooth yet detailed trebles, because raw trebles can be piercing not because of the tuning amount, but because of the tail, the reverb of the edge on transient attack on high frequencies.

I guess there are less than 20% of audiophiles are enjoying by high extension. Maybe due to music styles they are listening to.

nope, I guess manufacturers just too rely on harman target, based on 800 people hearing? which majority aren't audiophiles maybe.
the top tier IEMs always have this high extension, just take a look on Subtonic Storm, Symphonium Crimson, 64audio u12t, Volur, u18s, u4s, Sony IER-M9, IER-Z1R, UM Mests, Thieaudio Monarchs and Prestiges,etc
They just don't get it yet, like what they do with high pinna gain = more clear voices with +15db pinna gain few years back. Hopefully, they will start to do this, like Pula PA02 for example, people reception also good, whatever the genre they are listening.
I also hoping the budget level can be better, I admit they are getting better and better recently, and the competition is tight here. Meanwhile we, as consumer is the winner in the end, maybe not quite a giant killer but we can get a close ones in near future.

 

[JrOcinthepark]

I like shiny things and I buy them to make nesting boxes.

Most times I buy dogs, sometimes I strike gold. Someone has to be the guinea pig on blind buys.

Why I’m not buying a kilobuck iem a month. Got my big bad pitty during Covid and now he has separation anxiety. Needs to go to daycare when I’m at work

 

[o0genesis0o]

nope, I guess manufacturers just too rely on harman target, based on 800 people hearing? which majority aren't audiophiles maybe.
the top tier IEMs always have this high extension, just take a look on Subtonic Storm, Symphonium Crimson, 64audio u12t, Volur, u18s, u4s, Sony IER-M9, IER-Z1R, UM Mests, Thieaudio Monarchs and Prestiges,etc
They just don't get it yet, like what they do with high pinna gain = more clear voices with +15db pinna gain few years back. Hopefully, they will start to do this, like Pula PA02 for example, people reception also good, whatever the genre they are listening.
I also hoping the budget level can be better, I admit they are getting better and better recently, and the competition is tight here. Meanwhile we, as consumer is the winner in the end, maybe not quite a giant killer but we can get a close ones in near future.

Harman didn't tell people how much above 10Khz is necessary because their rig cannot measure that part. Knowles continued the research with new rig and found that the 16kHz controlled peak, without bleeding into 10kHz seems to be necessary to complete the signature. There was a talk of this research results a few Canjam back.

To be fair, if we are very strict with definition, very very few IEMs out there are true "Harman". Those don't sound good either

 

[BS5711]

In the spirit of discovery.

I often wonder why folks with numerous IEM, a testing coupler and a number of DACs, dongles and amplifiers don’t do comparative testing with one IEM driven by a variety of sources and plot graphs over top of each other for easy visual comparison. Even run the test with a few IEM, some considered to be source picky and some not.

Set the coupler up, weight the cable down at the Y split so moving the termination end doesn’t disturb the IEM in the coupler and even have the source on a different desk, again so the coupler isn’t disturbed during changes of source.

Run a series of tests with different sources chosen across a range of tonalities based on listening impressions or generally accepted performance. With the right gear, and some have the gear to hand, it would be a very simple test and very telling about the effects of source gear.

I know many consider that graphs don’t tell everything but we read many comments from highly experienced folks about this or that amp providing more impactful bass or more forward vocals etc. That seems like basic tonality stuff that should logically show up readily on a frequency response graph.

My enquiring mind would like to understand this better but I don’t have the gear and plenty of others do.

Anybody game ?

 

[o0genesis0o]

In the spirit of discovery.

I often wonder why folks with numerous IEM, a testing coupler and a number of DACs, dongles and amplifiers don’t do comparative testing with one IEM driven by a variety of sources and plot graphs over top of each other for easy visual comparison. Even run the test with a few IEM, some considered to be source picky and some not.

Set the coupler up, weight the cable down at the Y split so moving the termination end doesn’t disturb the IEM in the coupler and even have the source on a different desk, again so the coupler isn’t disturbed during changes of source.

Run a series of tests with different sources chosen across a range of tonalities based on listening impressions or generally accepted performance. With the right gear, and some have the gear to hand, it would be a very simple test and very telling about the effects of source gear.

I know many consider that graphs don’t tell everything but we read many comments from highly experienced folks about this or that amp providing more impactful bass or more forward vocals etc. That seems like basic tonality stuff that should logically show up readily on a frequency response graph.

My enquiring mind would like to understand this better but I don’t have the gear and plenty of others do.

Anybody game ?

I did with the E5000. There is zero difference popping up on the frequency response. The only time you can clearly see FR difference is with campfire andromeda 2020 when OI of the chain changes. I think Riku or someone found that some sony DAP has very wonky FR as a part of their tuning trick as well.

We shouldn't forget that frequency response is just a snap shot of the response with one sine sweep. I suspect whatever causes the difference on the source side, it is due to the dynamic behaviour of the whole chain (not just one component) when playing music. What exactly that thing is and where it is on the measurement is beyond my expertise. I tend to defer this topic to real engineers behinds DAPs / DACs/ Amps rather than making wild conclusions or to claim that they are all scams because I don't know where they are on the measurements. All I know is that even if the FR is the same, if you force me to listen to my IEMs using Hidizs AP80 Pro X, I will rather stop listening to IEM altogether.

 

[sistoz]

Not bad XINHS, not bad...

Hi, I really like the colour of the shell, what model is it? How do they sound? Thank you

 

[JrOcinthepark]

I would double check the fit with somewhere who accepts returns and make sure you have a good cable for the Timsok, the two most common complaints I have seen about that IEM.

I truly don't think i have heard someone speak ill of the sound on that thing though, seems universally loved.

What’s the issue with the cable?

 

[fidgeraldo]

Requires an amp as such. If not driven well - and I don't mean volume, but more of a current issue - then the E5000's bass is flabby, one-noted with loss of texture.

Thanks!
No worries, I am looking at the bass here, only the bass, and I am addicted to Final's sound signature
Is SPL Phonitor XE enough for a start?

Cheers!

 

[fidgeraldo]

Looking to get an inexpensive digital coax (spdif, NOT optical) switcher/selector.
I'm guessing probably not, but does anyone have any suggestions under $60?
Looks like I'm about 10 years late to this party.

Have you looked at Supra cables?

I love Supra. I know that they can be found in Europe around that price.

Cheers!

 

[bithalver]

(post about coming NiceHCK Himalaya IEM)

Hmmm, looks good ! I am curious about FR and price.

 

[nikbr]

Hmm...I want that too...what is it??

Oh, gold...looking interesting

But I didn't mean that... the other thing that makes him think that he listens to speakers while listening to IEMs )

Cheers!

Lol, I could have sworn I was sober. Hm, not sure. Possibly drugged by my love for music? Will try SIE again at some point soon to see if the speaker thing reappears. But even just their gaudy look is worth the 100€.

Word of warning about the Final E5000.

It is one of the hardest IEMs to drive, due to the low 93 dB/mW sensitivity. Requires an amp as such. If not driven well - and I don't mean volume, but more of a current issue - then the E5000's bass is flabby, one-noted with loss of texture. It sounds very muddy and smears for fast bass tracks then. Driving to adequate volume is not the same as driving well, for the E5000.

Thankfully, it sounds like a totally different animal when well juiced, but the problem is most dongles or even DAPs can't do the sonics justice. Mostly it requires desktop grade amps for optimal sonics. The only outlier dongles I found that could power it well would be the Fiio KA13 and KA17 (550 mW and 650 mW on desktop mode respectively).

Even so, the E5000 is not too proficient technically against the recent influx of midFI single DDs like Simgot EA1000, Tanchjim Origin, DUNU Falcon Ultra etc, and the dark treble is a bit niche (not for trebleheads).

Ooo, just the job for my FiiO M15S @1.2W+1.2W or Venture Electronics Stack @3W+3W Yep, E5000 is definitely on my radar.

 

[baskingshark]

Thanks!
No worries, I am looking at the bass here, only the bass, and I am addicted to Final's sound signature
Is SPL Phonitor XE enough for a start?

Cheers!

Yep the SPL Phonitor XE is a desktop grade amp that seems to have 3.7 W output power which is definitely more than enough for the E5000.

 

[fidgeraldo]

Will try SIE again

Nooooo, get some solid speakers first

I am kidding; enjoy! They look nice...I will keep an eye on them for the future

Cheers!