The discovery thread!
Aug 21, 2023 at 2:29 AM Post #85,246 of 96,181
Good analogy, but have you shopped for a bike in the last 10 years? I don't even think you can buy an entry level bike from main bike brands like Trek or Specialized for under $300. My last decade ago purchase was a simple one step up from the entry level. It was over $600 for a simple skinny tire Specialized bike path type.
Prices aside, you at least agreed with my pojnt :ksc75smile:. The last couple of years have really upped the tuning & technicalities game at far lower price points. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that spending $200-$300 today can get you 90% of the way to TOTL. Plus, if you're one of the older crowd, there's a strong chance your hearing isn't going to be able to tell the difference anyway.

Just my 2 cents of course.
 
Aug 21, 2023 at 2:32 AM Post #85,247 of 96,181
20230604_190018_original-edited.jpg

My review for the AFUL Performer 8 is now live. Hope you enjoy the reading and have a nice weekend!
Great review, thanks. I'm really impressed with these. They are enabling me to hear things I'd never heard before in the music - which is a big win all around.

Can't say that I disagree with anything you say, but then again, I don't have access to a huge number of iems. Are they the best iems i've used without needing EQ? 100%!
 
Aug 21, 2023 at 3:15 AM Post #85,248 of 96,181
I've only seen a few in this thread implying or outright saying Crin is a shill.

I personally don't think he's shilling anything or for any company. I'd love for the people accusing Crin of shilling to provide examples of what he's shilling for and how he's shilling.

He just has different preferences than people and has a few questionable IEM rankings.

Some people are just mad their IEMs of preference aren't ranked higher than others they don't think deserve to be high on the list.

I don't give too much credence to Crin's tier list anyway, since most of the IEMs he's reviewed and ranked, are demo units that he doesn't own or hasn't spent a lot of time with.

Plus, he's been out of the IEM reviewing game for over half a year. How can he really rank anything he didn't even review or test thoroughly? Well, I guess anyone can make random personal rankings of anything, but I wouldn't take it too seriously.

In the end, tier lists are just personal opinions and are very subjective.
I hope you're right... The profile pic doesn't exactly inspire confidence however.

I think more selfish part of me wishes he'd just stop grading and reviewing altogether and just start a proper audio company at this point, killing any potential future accusations of COI in the process.

I visit his website for the measurements anyway.
 
Aug 21, 2023 at 3:36 AM Post #85,249 of 96,181
I hope you're right... The profile pic doesn't exactly inspire confidence however.

I think more selfish part of me wishes he'd just stop grading and reviewing altogether and just start a proper audio company at this point, killing any potential future accusations of COI in the process.

I visit his website for the measurements anyway.
I can't resist to say that he actually partially owns Thieaudio already.
 
Aug 21, 2023 at 3:45 AM Post #85,250 of 96,181
Monday Blues with some easy listening lol.

Had only 1 hour of sleep last night so was not in any mood to give time to IEMs today. Just pulled this setup out of my case and I am having a great time coping with the Monday.TGXear Sunniva is fantastic in every regard, outstanding tone, rich timbre, a little intimate yet immersive soundstage, and well-separated instruments. Absolutely charming for vocal lovers!!

Requires amp'ing to sound its best!!
sunniva.jpeg
 
Aug 21, 2023 at 4:17 AM Post #85,251 of 96,181
but in reality a $200-300 bike will get you 90% of what the $10k bike does (just less quality and refinement).

Prices aside, you at least agreed with my pojnt :ksc75smile:. The last couple of years have really upped the tuning & technicalities game at far lower price points. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that spending $200-$300 today can get you 90% of the way to TOTL. Plus, if you're one of the older crowd, there's a strong chance your hearing isn't going to be able to tell the difference anyway.

Just my 2 cents of course.
Wait, first you talk about bikes at $200-$300 and then you talk about tuning and technicalities as if you are talking about iems, yet you still refer to this $200-$300 target and 90% in both quotes. Which is it?

Then you go on to insinuate that my hearing is not able to discern telling a difference. Difference in what, for ..cks sakes.

I do have some experience, this is not my first goat rodeo, check my start date on headfi. I, like you, have been here and around the block for a while. If you think because you might be younger you are somehow a superior judge of headphone or iem quality, that is a pedestal you may construct for yourself.

If you are trying to communicate that a $200-$300 IEM might get you to diminishing returns of a megabuck IEM. Then I am with you, but I have not heard any iems personally over about $600.
 
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Aug 21, 2023 at 4:23 AM Post #85,252 of 96,181
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Aug 21, 2023 at 4:37 AM Post #85,253 of 96,181
LOL
 
Aug 21, 2023 at 4:44 AM Post #85,255 of 96,181

It’s not about shilling or not, it’s about unreliability of the list. Example:
  • The OG SA6 in the same rank as Aria???
  • Chu in the same rank as the OG Andro???
  • Chu and Hola are the same rank as Tia Fourte ?????
  • Tia Trio is the same as Dunu Vulkan and Blessing 2 ?
  • VE Phonix and EE Odin are below Variations ???
  • Many more examples
(I deliberately don’t mention IEMs that I actually own from these points)

In what universe are these make any real world sense? This ranking list is simply misleading.

You know what, a few years ago, another reviewer (maybe Crinacle himself) said something akin to “you disagree? Go do it yourself”. I did, and this time I throw down the gauntlet. At least I breakdown the sonic performance of all IEMs and compare each aspect against benchmarks. What kind of process to create such misleading and unreliable ranking list?
 
Aug 21, 2023 at 4:54 AM Post #85,256 of 96,181
Wait, first you talk about bikes at $200-$300 and then you talk about tuning and technicalities as if you are talking about iems, yet you still refer to this $200-$300 target and 90% in both quotes. Which is it?

Then you go on to insinuate that my hearing is not able to discern telling a difference. Difference in what, for ..cks sakes.

I do have some experience, this is not my first goat rodeo, check my start date on headfi. I, like you, have been here and around the block for a while. If you think because you might be younger you are somehow a superior judge of headphone or iem quality, that is a pedestal you may construct for yourself.

If you are trying to communicate that a $200-$300 IEM might get you to diminishing returns of a megabuck IEM. Then I am with you, but I have not heard any iems personally over about $600.
Your last point is what I'm trying to convey. Likewise, I haven't heard anything above $600 either, but I'm not sure (at my age) I would appreciate the differences.

Honestly, I have no idea how good your hearing is. What I do know is that hearing deteriorates with age - particularly treble frequencies.
 
Aug 21, 2023 at 4:56 AM Post #85,257 of 96,181
It’s not about shilling or not, it’s about unreliability of the list. Example:
  • The OG SA6 in the same rank as Aria???
  • Chu in the same rank as the OG Andro???
  • Chu and Hola are the same rank as Tia Fourte ?????
  • Tia Trio is the same as Dunu Vulkan and Blessing 2 ?
  • VE Phonix and EE Odin are below Variations ???
  • Many more examples
(I deliberately don’t mention IEMs that I actually own from these points)

In what universe are these make any real world sense? This ranking list is simply misleading.

You know what, a few years ago, another reviewer (maybe Crinacle himself) said something akin to “you disagree? Go do it yourself”. I did, and this time I throw down the gauntlet. At least I breakdown the sonic performance of all IEMs and compare each aspect against benchmarks. What kind of process to create such misleading and unreliable ranking list?

What you've said is only true if you assume that your impressions and opinions are objective fact and the undeniable truth. But as with anyone in this thread would agree, nobody can claim that (and I myself have paragraphs on paragraphs of disclaimers on my pages as a result).

We disagree, and that's where I stand on this. However, YOU take this further and accuse me of being misleading, unreliable, whatever you want to say, as if my disagreement with you is wrong because only you hold the truth and facts on what is "better" and what is "worse".

Your tastes and opinions don't represent everybody, no matter how many breakdowns and columns you add into your spreadsheet. You are not God.
 
Aug 21, 2023 at 5:14 AM Post #85,258 of 96,181
What you've said is only true if you assume that your impressions and opinions are objective fact and the undeniable truth. But as with anyone in this thread would agree, nobody can claim that (and I myself have paragraphs on paragraphs of disclaimers on my pages as a result).

We disagree, and that's where I stand on this. However, YOU take this further and accuse me of being misleading, unreliable, whatever you want to say, as if my disagreement with you is wrong because only you hold the truth and facts on what is "better" and what is "worse".

Your tastes and opinions don't represent everybody, no matter how many breakdowns and columns you add into your spreadsheet. You are not God.
I think one of the issues that some people might have with your ranking list, is that when encountering a perceived lack of cohesiveness there is often a lack of information to drill down and answer why. Descriptions are understandably sparse, but should you want more details you need to find them scattered around in older reviews, short youtube videos or sometimes nothing at all. The perks of a way too large database I would say.
 
Aug 21, 2023 at 5:14 AM Post #85,259 of 96,181
What you've said is only true if you assume that your impressions and opinions are objective fact and the undeniable truth. But as with anyone in this thread would agree, nobody can claim that (and I myself have paragraphs on paragraphs of disclaimers on my pages as a result).

We disagree, and that's where I stand on this. However, YOU take this further and accuse me of being misleading, unreliable, whatever you want to say, as if my disagreement with you is wrong because only you hold the truth and facts on what is "better" and what is "worse".

Your tastes and opinions don't represent everybody, no matter how many breakdowns and columns you add into your spreadsheet. You are not God.
It’s not taste or opinion that assigns my ratings. It’s how an IEM does, side by side, against some benchmarks, in careful A/B, decides where it fits. And it’s not an sweeping test, but aspect by aspect. I carefully try to remove my “taste” and my “opinion” from the technical performance rating, and I actively recommend readers to disregard my assessment of tonality. So, no, it’s not the difference between “my taste” and “your taste”, and the arrogance that “my taste” is better than “your taste”, as you accuse.

You are significant in this hobby. Your ranking list is significant. Therefore, it would subject to scrutiny. And I pointed out questionable points. There were not so many contentious points in the past.

Edit: I shouldn’t have used the strong words of misleading. My apologies.

Edit2: I do have a variations here

image.jpg
 
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Aug 21, 2023 at 5:22 AM Post #85,260 of 96,181
It’s not taste or opinion that assigns my ratings. It’s how an IEM does, side by side, against some benchmarks, in careful A/B, decides where it fits. And it’s not an sweeping test, but aspect by aspect. I carefully try to remove my “taste” and my “opinion” from the technical performance rating, and I actively recommend readers to disregard my assessment of tonality. So, no, it’s not the difference between “my taste” and “your taste”, and the arrogance that “my taste” is better than “your taste”, as you accuse.

Neither is it the goal for my taste or opinion to assign my rankings, but ultimately I acknowledge that there will always be a level of personal bias that affects them all. No matter how carefully one tries to "remove" it.

At the end of the day, claiming that your list is somehow better than mine is indeed the arrogance that "your bias" is better than "my bias", if you prefer the wording that way.
 

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