[Dsnuts]

I think all you guys make some valid points. It is a fact that great cheaper stuff is harder to come by than mid fi products that are readily available..Truth be told how many great cheapo cans are there really. On this site we are talking maybe 3 or 4 cans..And that is because a few of us realize that there are such thing as great sounding cheaper stuff and others agree..I only wish there was more cans like the Somics and the HA-S500s of the world but truth be told there are limitations of these cans in one way or another. And we mod them to no end just to get them to sound better. This is certainly a fun way of trying to improve the stock product to make them sound like much more expensive cans and for the most part it is easily done. But in the end no mater how much modding you do or cables you use or magic dust you throw on your cheapos they are still cheapos. An orange is an orange no matter how you slice n dice it.
 
It is awesome to find a cheapo can that can reproduce 90% plus of a higher end can which is again easier said than done. But do they actually replace the higher end cans and their sonic abilities?..Not really. It can come close no doubt but it doesn't. But at the same time cheapo stuff has it's role. I remember listening to the MP8320 for the first time thinking. Wow these things sound great and how can these little iems cost only $7.11.  See for me there is no commitment for stuff like that. You can just throw it in your ears not to analyze it's faults but just to enjoy the music..I think it is the smart headfier that try out a budget can to find out what they like in a sound before committing to something higher end. As even higher end stuff guys end up selling just to try n find what they truly prefer. I don't ever recall people being 100% satisfies with any can at any level. Even the mighty grail of headphones the HE-90 has guys buying them and then selling them.. I think it is more important to find ones preference in sound more than any other factor in this hobby to pursue the ideal headphone for you..
 
I actually encourage guys to find them gems. I know there are out there and they exist. With audio gears at an all time high in popularity, if a cheaper product get noticed it only encourages companies to do one better. And who don't want better..

 

[DannyBai]

Through my experience, the budget-fi equipment has been sort of an awakening that quality stuff exists at this price range.  Some of the gears I've purchased that cost twenty bucks come close in performance to gears that cost 100 bucks.  This is truly a bargain and for someone who cannot afford the 100 bucks, it makes all the sense to grab it.  Heck, I don't need it, but buy it just to find out.  But majority of them end up not as good as the 100 dollar item I already have.  Whether it's the cable, small refinements in sound or comfort.  Not always the case but a large percent of the time, this is the case for me.  There's usually some reason it doesn't stack up to the stuff I already own and I'd rather ditch the cheap item instead of the one that costs twice the price.  This might not make sense for some if the cheaper item is so close in performance but I like the higher quality components used in the more expensive gear and the little refinements in sound are crucial for me also.  For the others that do not own the higher dollar equipment, it's a no brainer especially when someone that can compare it with something that is twice the price and gives a go.  Value to differs to everyone as does sound, so as a music hobbyist, it's up to you what audio gears are worth to you only.  

 

[JiggaD369]

While on the topic, my $5 Incase's are becoming my ideal sound signature.
 
Yes, they're even outclassing the Sextetts. By a wide margin.

 

[thoughtcriminal]

Subscribing to this thread. Interesting read

 

[MrEleventy]

While on the topic, my $5 Incase's are becoming my ideal sound signature.

Yes, they're even outclassing the Sextetts. By a wide margin.

i found them at tj maxx for 25.

 

[JiggaD369]

Quote:

i found them at tj maxx for 25.

Rip the tag off and ask for the price. lol.

 

[lilboozy]

Nit sure if any of you saw this fr graph of the monoprice 9927. It's very linear 

http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2013/02/monoprice-9927.html

 

[Alberto01]

Thank you guys for all your replies to my "word of wisdom."  I am sure that all of our comments on this subject will be enlightening to anyone who reads them, whether they stay as $50+ gear people, $200+ gear people, or both.
 
As for my own experience, I have found out with a couple of headphones that if someone says something negative about their sound on online reviews, my ears will agree.  So, if there is a negative review on sound quality of any given headphones, my ears will surely complain once they hear them.  If there are no negative reviews (i.e. HE-400, HE-500), I doubt that my ears will have any major complaints on their sound quality.  The good news about this, is that all positive reviews stuff is not so far out of reach that I can not make a stretch somewhere and grab something from that zone.  This won't keep me closed minded about cheaper stuff.  I just know that it is not very likely to find a top of the line quality gem in the cheap zone.  So, I won't go around trying to find it, like I have done so far.  If I do and as I do so, the capacity to stretch and grab something from the all positive reviews zone, is undermined to a great extent.  So, if the EFI-82 MT are a phenomenon, I will surely get them.  If they are great for the money, but get beat the stuff out (by an easy to notice margin) by the HE-400 or ES700 or CKS1000 or equivalent, then I will save the $65 so that I can get one of those sooner and not later. HA, HA.
 
BTW, I joined this train on the XB90EX station and I have read every single post since then.  Everything that was and is on this train before that station has gotten beat by stuff that came afterwards at the same or at a lower price in the span of less than three months since they became the FOTW (W=week).  That should tell you something.

 

[Alberto01]

Quote:

Quote:

i found them at tj maxx for 25.

Rip the tag off and ask for the price. lol.

HA, HA.  Hilarious!

 

[waynes world]

Quote:

 
What you say does not disagree much with what I wrote.  $200+ audio gear is still a budget-fi arena compared to everything that you can get.  Starting at that level or spending little in the $50+ zone and going quickly into the $200+ zone is gonna be much more rewarding than spending lots of money and time (years!) at the $50+ zone.  Also, you can always come back to that zone whenever you want.  I doubt you will want to do much at the $50+ zone once you get a pair of jewels at the $200+ zone.  This is more meaningful to those who have the means to get $200+ stuff, but feel (or think) that it is unfair to spend so much on audio gear.  What's funny about that is that if someone spends a lot of money on $50+ stuff, that means that they have a love for quality audio and will end up spending a lot of money searching for it in a zone where their ears will always be asking for more.  So, sfwalcer if you don't have money for anything above the $50+ zone, then that is your only choice.  There is some quite enjoyable stuff on that level.  But, if you have it or can save enough through a semester or a year to get $200+ stuff, the superior ear satisfaction is worth the wait and/or the abstinence that you have to go through. HA, HA.  I hope that the Somic EFI-82 MT prove me wrong or become the exception. HA, HA.  Let's see what Dsnuts writes in his second official impressions on those Somics.

 
Quote:

This does not disagree with what I just said.  It is obvious that you can get $50+ gear that can sound equal or better than $200+ gear.  But, if you find $200+ gear that sounds equal to or almost equal to $400+ gear, your ears will be much happier on that equation than on the lower level zone.
 
<snip>
 
So, I am not saying that everything on the $200+ zone is worth it and that everything there will be better than anything on the $50+ zone (EFI-82 MT?).  What I am saying is that $200+ zone is quite richer in gems and treasures than the $50+ zone.

 
I love my budget-fi phones (especially the S500's), and also the crazy folks who frequent these forums - you know who you are lol! But what you said above personally resonates for me. Based on Ds's recommendations, and also based on my desire to hopefully just find something that stops my upgrade-itis (at least for a while), and also based on my desire to get an open backed set of cans, I took a chance on the ad900x's. And really, I'm not sure that I could be happier - I truly love listening to these puppies as much as I can. At the price I paid for them, I feel very satisfied that I made the right choice. And if I got them at the current price ($160!), I would feel like a thief lol. Basically for the price you can get them for now, it's stupid - they can complete you   The problems for some of course would be that the isolation is zero, and also that the cable is 10ft long (and non-detachable).
 
There's my 2 cents (for free!).

 

[gibosi]

Quote:

gibosi, please post your detailed impressions on your SOMIC EFI-82 MT Cash's modded version.  Everyone will be happy to read them.

 
For a beginner such as myself, the Somics have been a great buy. These are my very first cans and so I have nothing else to compare them to. For some time now, I have been listening to Somics with double dampening, Somic and Shure, and yet I thought that they sounded great! ahaha.... Then I read Dsnuts review and I learn that double dampening is not such a good thing.. last night I take the Somic dampening off... and now I am hearing things I have not heard before... And I am experiencing all my music just a little differently than before.... and it is better than before.....  I am learning..... And I am learning about pads. I am learning about dampening material. I am learning about closed, semi closed and open. I am learning many things. And as a noobie, I would rather climb up the ladder a few steps at a time, to allow my ears and mind to understand what I am hearing, and to discover my musical preferences. So I am of the same mind as sfwalcer. I am fond of saying,"It's got to be the going not the getting there that's good." ( Harry Chapin "Greyhound")   I am enjoying the journey. And I am not going to go out and buy the HE-500s because my ears are just not experienced enough to appreciate them. Moreover, I may in fact discover that I just don't like their sound. Again, look at all the expensive stuff that is being sold on Head-fi for sale forum because people discovered they didn't like it. Rather, I am trying to understand what I should buy next. Of course, it very likely won't be another $50 can  And it won't be a $500 can. My thinking is that it will be something in the neighborhood of $250 or a bit higher, depending on whether I can find something really nice used (because someone else bought it and discovered they didn't like it!")
 
Of course, others who have more experienced ears and know what they like, would be wasting their money buying Somics and tweaking them. We are very lucky that Dsnuts is willing to do this, because I think we all know that it is incredibly unlikely that any $50 can is going to displace any of his favorites. Moreover, he is not only willing to buy these, but then he provides us with a detailed review based on his considerable experience. I can't say just how much I appreciate his contributions.  
 
Personally, I do not believe the Somics are the cans for Alberto. I agree with him that the likelihood of him finding a keeper in the $200 and up range is much more realistic. But I am much lower on the ladder than he is and I am very happy with the Somics... however, they will not be my last headphone... of this I am sure...

 

[CashNotCredit]

Ya know, Alberto's totally right about the whole buying a $200 can that can outperform $400 ones.

I don't know what it is, but I don't see enough of these. I'm sure there out there, but I think it's a lot easier/less risky to make a "discovery" at the $50 price point than at a more expensive one. We just don't see it as much, you know?

This is why I'm really thinking about getting an AD900X.
 
Usually, diminishing returns stops mid-fi (am I using it right now? xD) headphones from outperforming their class, but when a lower-high end can can overachieve as much as you guys have all said it does, well that's something pretty special.
 
Kudos to Dsnuts for always keeping us in the loop about this stuff. 100 $10 headphones hurt the pocketbook just as much as a $1000 one, and the time it takes to listen to all of them and write impressions is just crazy.

 

[Alberto01]

Quote:

Quote:

gibosi, please post your detailed impressions on your SOMIC EFI-82 MT Cash's modded version.  Everyone will be happy to read them.

 
For a beginner such as myself, the Somics have been a great buy. These are my very first cans and so I have nothing else to compare them to. For some time now, I have been listening to Somics with double dampening, Somic and Shure, and yet I thought that they sounded great! ahaha.... Then I read Dsnuts review and I learn that double dampening is not such a good thing.. last night I take the Somic dampening off... and now I am hearing things I have not heard before... And I am experiencing all my music just a little differently than before.... and it is better than before.....  I am learning..... And I am learning about pads. I am learning about dampening material. I am learning about closed, semi closed and open. I am learning many things. And as a noobie, I would rather climb up the ladder a few steps at a time, to allow my ears and mind to understand what I am hearing, and to discover my musical preferences. So I am of the same mind as sfwalcer. I am fond of saying,"It's got to be the going not the getting there that's good." ( Harry Chapin "Greyhound")   I am enjoying the journey. And I am not going to go out and buy the HE-500s because my ears are just not experienced enough to appreciate them. Moreover, I may in fact discover that I just don't like their sound. Again, look at all the expensive stuff that is being sold on Head-fi for sale forum because people discovered they didn't like it. Rather, I am trying to understand what I should buy next. Of course, it very likely won't be another $50 can  And it won't be a $500 can. My thinking is that it will be something in the neighborhood of $250 or a bit higher, depending on whether I can find something really nice used (because someone else bought it and discovered they didn't like it!")
 
Of course, others who have more experienced ears and know what they like, would be wasting their money buying Somics and tweaking them. We are very lucky that Dsnuts is willing to do this, because I think we all know that it is incredibly unlikely that any $50 can is going to displace any of his favorites. Moreover, he is not only willing to buy these, but then he provides us with a detailed review based on his considerable experience. I can't say just how much I appreciate his contributions.  
 
Personally, I do not believe the Somics are the cans for Alberto. I agree with him that the likelihood of him finding a keeper in the $200 and up range is much more realistic. But I am much lower on the ladder than he is and I am very happy with the Somics... however, they will not be my last headphone... of this I am sure...

 
Good comments!
 
I will make a correction about you saying "But I am much lower on the ladder than the is..."  I have not gone farther up on the ladder than you have.  I have just been looking up the ladder more carefully and I am a good observer.  I also have done quite a bid on reading on user's experience with several highly regarded headphones and other not so highly regarded headphones.  Something that adds value to those two aspects is that I have had to buy equipment for live sound strictly from reading online reviews.  I got great gear at great prices.  In the process I jumped some steps on the live sound gear.  Oh boy! I am so glad that I did.  The equipment that I got would be the equivalent to the $200+ zone stuff on headphones.  The equipment that others got before I came into the picture was equivalent to the $100- zone stuff on headphones.  I got great stuff without breaking the bank that won't leave the band wanting for replacements in just a few years.  With all that, I have developed both a feeling (gut instinct in part?) and an understanding to foresee what it would be like getting to the top of the ladder (or rather my ladder) in a step by step manner or in a much quicker way.  All this helped in my recommendation for you to get a hybrid tube amp and skip other steps in the amplifier ladder.  BTW it seems like we should be happy with that decision just from seeing that you have been a happy tube roller. HA, HA.  There is not much to roll with solid state amps.
 
Let's wait until Dsnuts second official impressions on the Somics to see if they would be good for me or not.  And now that I know that you went through the same dampening steps that Dsnuts went through with his Somics, I ask how much better are they after the dampening change in bass, mids, highs, imaging, separation and soundstage?

 

[Dsnuts]

I suppose this is a good time as any to tell you guys a little news regarding my situation. When I mentioned I would be getting the Meridian explorer and the CKN70 and take a break for a while. It is beacuse of what is happening to my business.
 
After roughtly 15 years of doing business at my location. The real reason why I was so active on these threads was because I had so much down time. I have seen my humble little business through the good times and bad and like all good things that have a beginning it also has an ending.. At the end of this month because of the different direction of the parent company I work for I will no longer have a job. I can continue with another product but I feel I need a change in my life so I will sell off whatever I have at my shop and that will be it for me. This will also mean.. No more spending on phones or audio gears for me for a while. I have to save every dollar I have in order to survive whatever that I will be getting into next.. I haven't been jobless for so long I forgot what it is like to be looking for work.. Truth be told what I would really like to do is be involved with headfi and the audio industry but this is just wishful thinking.  I have some really great ideas about how the industry can grow and such but they are just ideas. 
 
As much as I would like to be trying out new gears and reporting to you guys as much as possible. Because of the reality of my situation. All my funds and attention will be going toward what I will do for the next 15 years.. I will not abandon my threads and you guys but my time here at headfi will be limited..Most guys have down time when they get home. For me my down time was at my work.. The business was slowing down with the downturn of the economy and I have seen many businesses around my area close down for good..I knew I was never going to retire doing what I do but I did the best I could with what I have. Now it is time to move on for me.
 
I will try to be on as much as possible and I hope to continue the threads as best as I can but my future is very uncertain..It does sadden me quite a bit to think I will no longer be able to do what I am good at on these threads but at the same time I know you guys will do well in carrying on without my input.. Headfi was here before me and Headfi will be here after me. I feel I had made some life long friendships with some of the other headfiers that understand my position and to those guys I like to thank. To all the guys have helped me and followed my lead in discovering stuff that otherwise would have never gotten an audience. To you guys I would like to thank. You guys that read these threads and give your support to this site it has been so much fun.. Thank you all..

 

[DannyBai]

You're a good man Ds.  You're future is bright as is your heart.