The discovery thread!

[lgcubana]

...
As far as the sound goes, I’m still below 20 hours but they’ve already opened up a lot. OOTB they sounded pretty tight and sharp. Over time the treble has smoothed out and the bass has become more refined. The stage? It’s fine. Plenty large. It could have a bit more depth, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that comes along with additional run in as the character has changed a fair amount over these initial hours. I suspect the dual Beryllium DDs are the source of the changes, loosening up and getting a bit smoother over time.
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.
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The one area these seem to struggle with is orchestral. They’re “boomy” enough to throw off the timber of the bass string instruments and you do get a bit of that BA ring, but it’s not especially pronounced. They can be tricky with spoken word too. I wouldn’t recommend these for podcasts. They’re too bright for that. Not sibilant but sharp. They need the lower frequencies active to balance out the overall sound.

Shhh
1st rule of "Burn in" club, we don't talk about "Burn in" club

 

[WAON303]

Nice! Which one?

List of candidates:

64audio Tia Trio
Elysian Diva
Elysian Gaea
QDC Anole VX
Insert unknown 2023 releases.

I might pick the Anole + another IEM.

Anole for sheer resolution, one of the others for that allrounder endgame IEM.

 

[nymz]

​

https://nymzreviews.com/2022/11/09/tgxear-ripples-first-impressions/

Today I bring you a just released new earbud. Here are my first impressions of the TGXEAR Ripples and you can find them in the link above. Oh and please do read the disclaimers, pretty explanatory.

 

[christianfps]

For your first question, high end single DDs like the Final A8000 and DUNU LUNA can have resolution that matches some multi BA/hybrids.





For your second question about diminishing returns.
The budget segment (which I consider as < $100 USD) has the best price-performance ratio in recent years. The MIDFI segment (I consider as $100 - 300 USD), has is the sweet spot if you want to move up the line to get good sonic fidelity for a bit more coin - you pay maybe 2 - 3x more for quite a substantial upgrade in sound. Then you have the TOTL segment (> $1000 USD), which IMHO has bad diminishing returns. Moving from MIDFI to TOTL, you pay maybe 10x more for 10 - 20% improvement. And even TOTL IEMs have their weaknesses.

I would suggest that you try a few budget IEMs to see what suits you in sound signatures. Once you know what you like or dislike, it is best to upgrade to MIDFI and call it a day. Buying many budget sidegrades will add up to a TOTL set one day, and you only have one pair of ears, the rest end up in a drawer, and 80% of new releases are generally sidegrades that are not talked about in a few weeks' time. If you have the cash, then yes TOTL is the way to go, but different folks have different comfort levels when it comes to spending on audio, some want to chase that last 10% sonic fidelity at any cost, some have a tighter budget.




For your third question about driver types:
Driver type, driver brand, driver count are not as important as tuning and implementation. In general, the different transducer/driver types do have their inherent pros and cons, but there is no best driver type, it really depends on how it is implemented and what suits your preference. Companies can use the most premium of drivers like Sonions or Beryllium coated pixie dust or Uranium drivers, but if they can't tune it well, then that is a moot point. Conversely, good tuners can eke out the best performance from a cheap driver, even if it is not a branded driver so to speak.

There are exceptions of course, but in general:
1) Single DDs
- Usually are more coherent and move air/decay in the bass more naturally.
- Timbral accuracy is generally accepted to be more natural on DDs compared to other driver types
- DDs are usually vented, so there may be penalties in isolation compared to unvented BA types.
- DDs may not have as great upper treble extension as multi driver types or planars.
- Single DD types may have less technical performance than multi BAs at the same price point , especially in the budget segment (in general).

2) BAs
- BAs generally when used in a multiple configuration, may give better technicalities than a single DD.
- However, BA bass may sound less natural as it doesn't move air or decay as much as a single DD. Lately, the trend has been for vented BA bass, so as to give this bass movement of air, but they still don't sound 100% like DD bass.
- Speaking about vents, BAs generally are not vented and hence have better isolation than DDs.
- Single BAs are disadvantaged as these don't cover the upper treble and sub-bass as well as a multi-BA config. Arguably, single BAs are not too common nowadays cause of this reason.
- Cheap BAs may sound a bit less natural in timbre, especially with bass decay. YMMV, some are not particular about timbre, and certain music genres emphasize timbre more than others.

3) Hybrids
- These theoretically combine the best of both the DD and BA concept, with the DD handling the bass, and the BAs handling the higher frequencies. In practice however, there may be coherency or cross over issues - eg bass can sound much slower than the BA, or the timbre/note weight between the different drivers can sound oddly different.

4) Planars
- The hype and craze for his year. Planars generally have excellent transients and low distortion, they give excellent technical performance. Some of the planars at the $100 range can kick the behinds of higher priced DDs. However, some weaknesses (in general) would be that planar timbre doesn't sound as natural as DDs, possibly cause of the rapid transients/decay, and planar IEMs may have an issue with bass excursion. Planar IEMs have evolved rapidly in the past year or so, and I look forward to more refinement in the coming months.

I can't thank you enough for giving me the rundown of everything! I will save this so I can go back to it from time to time! Much appreciated bro!

More like what's the best iem that you can buy and enjoy than it's tech.
Quick summary for you:
DD: smooth, usually good timbre, sound natural (i mean you should not hear sharp things in real life right?), but limited air, more pricey for a really good single DD than a hybrid.
BA: timbre like someone try to push sound to you, forceful, could be good thing or bad thing depend on how good these tuned, good for orchestra
Planar: .... Haven't heard before, i only have piezo (GK10) ... If piezo is close to planar then: could be dry, detail but grainy, bass lack definitetion, rock is your friend!
- I like vocal and timbre so i always leaning toward DD iem
But i believe that tuning is more important than what the tech inside, so you don't have to care too much about it's driver!

Thank you bro and I agree tuning is the make or break point of any IEM. You can have the same hardware as others but the tuning changes everything.
So far I have only been listening to mostly DDs and the only experience I have with BAs was with the KZ ZS6 from years ago and wasn't that noteworthy haha!

 

[Redcarmoose]

Aune Flamingo.
Great DAC/AMP!
Very good sounding, lovely, addictive and exciting. Quite powerful, reaches over 2.5V for 33 Ohms with no visible distortion. Very low output impedance, both OPA and TUBE output (less than 2 Ohms). Ultra-clear, large-print illuminated panel. Great design, remarkable finishes, adequate size and minimalist remote control, made of textured aluminium, very premium.

+1

“Audio Art” could be said of the design!

 

[saldsald]

Simgot EA500, RMB 399 only, DLC double magnet double cavity driver and 2 tunable nozzles

 

[r31ya]

Early impression on KZ attempt on Harman curve on the cheap, KZ EDC-X is start appearing.
most pretty positive, most goes "average tech, good enjoyable tuning."

interesting things is, upon being points out by Practiphile in KZ Discord,

"wth is this bruh.. i cudnt stop laughing while filming.. its so good for under 10 bucks lol.. instant A rank in my scoring haha"


"Havent heard of cxs.. tech wise its fine.. all average.. i hear remnants of their ultra/cra drivers.. its like an edx ultra with tighter bass and correct treble.. tho at at times the timbre sounded plasticky, like it sounded cheap..maybe because of the build? I dunno.. but i enjoyed the first listen more than the heart mirror pro lol"

KZ rep response being,

"If you have CXS, you can find much different between these two models. CXS use new type of driver. EDCX just use cheapest PTE diaphragm but with our technical technology to achieve excellent overall performance and match harman target."

"Even though we use the cheapest diaphragm material, it still can achieve the target as what we want , so what do you think to those dynamic IEM hype the diaphragm material or other effects for the reason why its price is so expensive as hundred or even thousand dollars? Also the tuning signature is not the point for its reason why so expensive."

"call for lower price to its exactly value , which is benefits to the consumer. That’s the trend and reasonable point."

"If skip the material, skip the tuning signature, what reason leaves for its expensive price? Brand tag ? Consumer pay for the billing of their marketing hype ?

This is a good topic."

Apparently the first salvo on the so called #KZTuners project is intentionally use the cheapest membrane, priced it under $10, but tune it good as take that to "exotic membrane shiller" that KZ rep hate so much...

 

[o0genesis0o]

Early impression on KZ attempt on Harman curve on the cheap, KZ EDC-X is start appearing.
most pretty positive, most goes "average tech, good enjoyable tuning."

interesting things is, upon being points out by Practiphile in KZ Discord,



KZ rep response being,



Apparently the first salvo on the so called #KZTuners project is intentionally use the cheapest membrane, priced it under $10, but tune it good as take that to "exotic membrane shiller" that KZ rep hate so much...

Funny how they (KZ) keep acting like they have always been the one with best tuning but shat on by “shillers” of other company with fancier driver techs but worst tuning, when they conveniently forget that

• they are the one who pushed that they have “the same driver configuration as expensive IEM”,
• they are the one with bad ice pick tuning
• they are the one that claim to use exotic EST drivers to sell their stuffs (CRN)

They also conveniently forget that BLON BL03 and Chu exist (well tuned, cheap driver tech, average to meh technical performance). So I don’t know what they are harping on about.

Anyhow, joke on me for buying one of these EDCX whatever and attend this shenanigan

 

[r31ya]

Funny how they (KZ) keep acting like they have always been the one with best tuning but shat on by “shillers” of other company with fancier driver techs but worst tuning, when they conveniently forget that

• they are the one who pushed that they have “the same driver configuration as expensive IEM”,
• they are the one with bad ice pick tuning
• they are the one that claim to use exotic EST drivers to sell their stuffs (CRN)

They also conveniently forget that BLON BL03 and Chu exist (well tuned, cheap driver tech, average to meh technical performance). So I don’t know what they are harping on about.

Anyhow, joke on me for buying one of these EDCX whatever and attend this shenanigan

As i mention before, plenty people bemoans on KZ tuning recently (in kz discord),
after being defensive about it, KZ ended creating KZTuners project which apparently in response of the tuning complaints,
something which i'm not sure on how it suppose to work other that it being a Facebook group to pitch tuning sig.

All in all, EDC-X is their first release on this "not KZ usual tuning" and they try to make a point that they can have good tuning with cheapest material available.
If after all the complaints, KZ will travels to other tunings and make them in sub $50 iems, can't complaint there.
---

Driver sound signature and technical limits exist which is why some driver is more expensive than others.
Blon carbon something membrane at least produce some decent technical talk about the membrane material, something about membrane mass, rigidity, and dampening ability and how iem companies try to deal with it, from using carbon something, to titanium, to the elusive berry. but recently it start to get a bit misguided, from lithium to rainbow membrane which selling point is "perfect tune" somehow.

KZ however goes all in the magnets housing and voice coils instead of membrane, lowering sensitivity and try to scorch earth on people who ask them to try exotic membrane for some reason. not quite the "right" route either but yeah its their direction now. hopefully it get better or at least produce better budget iem.

 

[LaughMoreDaily]

For your third question about driver types:

There are exceptions of course, but in general:
1) Single DDs
2) BAs
3) Hybrids
4) Planars

What are your thoughts on a piezo's sound (hybrids) used in earphones?
Have they dropped out of the market (no longer being used)?

 

[lushmelody]

As i mention before, plenty people bemoans on KZ tuning recently (in kz discord),
after being defensive about it, KZ ended creating KZTuners project which apparently in response of the tuning complaints,
something which i'm not sure on how it suppose to work other that it being a Facebook group to pitch tuning sig.

All in all, EDC-X is their first release on this "not KZ usual tuning" and they try to make a point that they can have good tuning with cheapest material available.
If after all the complaints, KZ will travels to other tunings and make them in sub $50 iems, can't complaint there.
---

Driver sound signature and technical limits exist which is why some driver is more expensive than others.
Blon carbon something membrane at least produce some decent technical talk about the membrane material, something about membrane mass, rigidity, and dampening ability and how iem companies try to deal with it, from using carbon something, to titanium, to the elusive berry. but recently it start to get a bit misguided, from lithium to rainbow membrane which selling point is "perfect tune" somehow.

KZ however goes all in the magnets housing and voice coils instead of membrane, lowering sensitivity and try to scorch earth on people who ask them to try exotic membrane for some reason. not quite the "right" route either but yeah its their direction now. hopefully it get better or at least produce better budget iem.

At least they dont charge more than $30 for a single DD. Single DD is so overhyped sometimes, even if they are technically behind multi drivers of same price.

 

[morndewey]

For your first question, high end single DDs like the Final A8000 and DUNU LUNA can have resolution that matches some multi BA/hybrids.





For your second question about diminishing returns.
The budget segment (which I consider as < $100 USD) has the best price-performance ratio in recent years. The MIDFI segment (I consider as $100 - 300 USD), has is the sweet spot if you want to move up the line to get good sonic fidelity for a bit more coin - you pay maybe 2 - 3x more for quite a substantial upgrade in sound. Then you have the TOTL segment (> $1000 USD), which IMHO has bad diminishing returns. Moving from MIDFI to TOTL, you pay maybe 10x more for 10 - 20% improvement. And even TOTL IEMs have their weaknesses.

I would suggest that you try a few budget IEMs to see what suits you in sound signatures. Once you know what you like or dislike, it is best to upgrade to MIDFI and call it a day. Buying many budget sidegrades will add up to a TOTL set one day, and you only have one pair of ears, the rest end up in a drawer, and 80% of new releases are generally sidegrades that are not talked about in a few weeks' time. If you have the cash, then yes TOTL is the way to go, but different folks have different comfort levels when it comes to spending on audio, some want to chase that last 10% sonic fidelity at any cost, some have a tighter budget.




For your third question about driver types:
Driver type, driver brand, driver count are not as important as tuning and implementation. In general, the different transducer/driver types do have their inherent pros and cons, but there is no best driver type, it really depends on how it is implemented and what suits your preference. Companies can use the most premium of drivers like Sonions or Beryllium coated pixie dust or Uranium drivers, but if they can't tune it well, then that is a moot point. Conversely, good tuners can eke out the best performance from a cheap driver, even if it is not a branded driver so to speak.

There are exceptions of course, but in general:
1) Single DDs
- Usually are more coherent and move air/decay in the bass more naturally.
- Timbral accuracy is generally accepted to be more natural on DDs compared to other driver types
- DDs are usually vented, so there may be penalties in isolation compared to unvented BA types.
- DDs may not have as great upper treble extension as multi driver types or planars.
- Single DD types may have less technical performance than multi BAs at the same price point , especially in the budget segment (in general).

2) BAs
- BAs generally when used in a multiple configuration, may give better technicalities than a single DD.
- However, BA bass may sound less natural as it doesn't move air or decay as much as a single DD. Lately, the trend has been for vented BA bass, so as to give this bass movement of air, but they still don't sound 100% like DD bass.
- Speaking about vents, BAs generally are not vented and hence have better isolation than DDs.
- Single BAs are disadvantaged as these don't cover the upper treble and sub-bass as well as a multi-BA config. Arguably, single BAs are not too common nowadays cause of this reason.
- Cheap BAs may sound a bit less natural in timbre, especially with bass decay. YMMV, some are not particular about timbre, and certain music genres emphasize timbre more than others.

3) Hybrids
- These theoretically combine the best of both the DD and BA concept, with the DD handling the bass, and the BAs handling the higher frequencies. In practice however, there may be coherency or cross over issues - eg bass can sound much slower than the BA, or the timbre/note weight between the different drivers can sound oddly different.

4) Planars
- The hype and craze for his year. Planars generally have excellent transients and low distortion, they give excellent technical performance. Some of the planars at the $100 range can kick the behinds of higher priced DDs. However, some weaknesses (in general) would be that planar timbre doesn't sound as natural as DDs, possibly cause of the rapid transients/decay, and planar IEMs may have an issue with bass excursion. Planar IEMs have evolved rapidly in the past year or so, and I look forward to more refinement in the coming months.

Fantastic synopsis. Like “Iems 101”.

 

[lgcubana]

What are your thoughts on a piezo's sound (hybrids) used in earphones?
Have they dropped out of the market (no longer being used)?

LZ A7 (2ish yrs. Old) & NiceHCK NX7, mk4 (current) are two examples. The Piezo driver is targeted at the very upper region of the frequency range; so they’re more for squeezing out that very last note of hardware like the triangle.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

What are your thoughts on a piezo's sound (hybrids) used in earphones?
Have they dropped out of the market (no longer being used)?

The Raptgo Hook-X is a popular current IEM that employs a piezo driver. I think part of the reason they haven't become more popular is that when the exotic driver competitions started in earnest between IEM manufacturers a few companies used piezos in very poor implementations in IEMs just to be able to claim they had an exotic driver in the mix.

Also, I think piezo drivers are probably the least widely known and understood of what's commonly out there so you don't see them being used much. They're most effective at reproducing the ultra high frequencies so they also compete with the very popular Sonion ESTs which also cover that range.

 

[Ace Bee]

Q

At least they dont charge more than $30 for a single DD. Single DD is so overhyped sometimes, even if they are technically behind multi drivers of same price.

Clearly you haven't heard enough excellent single DDs...or your preference may be heavily skewed towards Hybrid or Multi-BAs. I, for one, cannot withstand multi-BA iems, however good technically they can be.