The discovery thread!
Sep 5, 2018 at 10:32 PM Post #37,653 of 99,413
So on the question of the DMG vs. EX1000, yeah, the EX1000 still has a significantly more open spread on its soundstage. Perhaps I was too fast to state that the DMG has an 'average' soundstage, because against the EX1000 it doesn't sound small, but upon listening, I merely believed it had a soundstage presentation on par with most decent IEMs. It didn't stand out to me as being significantly expansive. But it certainly didn't sound constrained, and I believe that it is along the lines of what I wrote previously.

The DMG has better midrange clarity and note articulation (in the way BAs can present the mids and highs differently from dynamics). Some may feel it's more transparent here. In the end, it might be a matter of preference; the overt detail of a BA sound, or the smooth depth of a dynamic sound.

In terms of bass, both the EX1000 and DMG have some sub-bass rolloff and a mid-bass hump. The DMG has a bigger mid-bass thump, though it's still sufficiently tight. The bass speed is actually faster (much faster) than that of the EX1000, but I prefer the EX1000's transition from the mid-bass to the sub-bass, as it allows the listener to hear a more balanced spectral presentation of the bass. I hear layering better with the EX1000, whereas the DMG's bass is a bit one note in comparison.

So in terms of comparison, I find the EX1000 wins on its intangibles --- layering, nuance, openness, and smoothness. In terms of raw technical capability, the DMG is no slouch, but while BGVP likes to state that they tuned the DMG 15-16 times before settling on this sound, it's still not as mature as what the EX1000 was. Keep in mind, however, that a large proportion of head-fiers will put the EX1000 up in the pantheon of all-time great in-ears. At the time of its release, it was a flagship among flagships. The DMG is a nicely made, and nicely tuned earphone, but they engineered it for a price point. They're not going to consider the tiny little things like realism of timbre, etc. They're going to work on the major things, like tightness of bass, shaving down the treble to just the right level so that it doesn't fatigue but still articulates, etc. They've done a nice job, but at the end of the day, the EX1000 will remain endeared to people's hearts, while people will move on from the DMG to the next big thing.

Proof I listened:

I'm contemplating trying these out, especially since they're on MD right now.
I haven't bought a new pair of IEMs since the LZ-A4 last year, which i rather like. I was also looking at the comets (as i really need a new pocketable IEM), or the ibasso IT01.
Do you think these are a must-buy forgoing those alternatives, as mentioned in that youtube review?
I'm totally down with a great bargain, but I've wanted to try something campfire for years now. Granted I'll take superior performance any day, even if they were the same price.
 
Sep 5, 2018 at 10:54 PM Post #37,654 of 99,413
I'm contemplating trying these out, especially since they're on MD right now.
I haven't bought a new pair of IEMs since the LZ-A4 last year, which i rather like. I was also looking at the comets (as i really need a new pocketable IEM), or the ibasso IT01.
Do you think these are a must-buy forgoing those alternatives, as mentioned in that youtube review?
I'm totally down with a great bargain, but I've wanted to try something campfire for years now. Granted I'll take superior performance any day, even if they were the same price.

If you mean that you will literally carry them around loose in your pocket, I would recommend investing in the superior build quality of the Comets. Nothing against the IT01, but between the cable issues, the plastic shell, and the easier to damage dynamic driver, I wouldn't gamble on its long lifespan if it's being carried around in pockets.
 
Sep 5, 2018 at 11:17 PM Post #37,655 of 99,413
I'm contemplating trying these out, especially since they're on MD right now. I haven't bought a new pair of IEMs since the LZ-A4 last year, which i rather like. I was also looking at the comets (as i really need a new pocketable IEM), or the ibasso IT01. Do you think these are a must-buy forgoing those alternatives, as mentioned in that youtube review? I'm totally down with a great bargain, but I've wanted to try something campfire for years now. Granted I'll take superior performance any day, even if they were the same price.

I haven't heard the iBasso IT01, but I remember listening briefly to the IT03 a couple of years ago. These are better in terms of tonal balance, and just overall better earphone, aside from sub-bass level. Perhaps more importantly, the DMG are much more comfortable in the ears, and feel better made (more substantial feeling than the light plastic construction of the IT03). While I haven't really paid attention to most of the other popular chi-fi earphones out there, I find the DMG a really great value. They don't stick out of people's ears, and are not too heavy, but not flimsy feeling. I don't feel any kind of pressure on my cavum concha even with long wear sessions. The only discomfort I had was with the cable interfering with my glasses, but I've switched out the cable for Linum BaX cables, and the DMG have become one of the most comfortable IEMs I've worn. They're not super isolating, though, in comparison with the Etymotic-like fit I employ with the Klipsch X20i.

I haven't heard the CFA Comet. It looks glitzy, and I know Ken Ball designs his IEMs with love and care. But while I love single BA earphones, they do not sound the same as multi-driver hybrids. So I think it's up to you to figure out whether you want a simple single BA sound (i.e. phase correct, balanced, but average soundstage), or a multi-driver hybrid sound (i.e. better detail retrieval, less balance but more emotive, not quite phase correct, but has a larger, more spherical soundstage).

To me, the biggest drawbacks of the DMG are the lackluster accessories (included tip selection is terrible, and there is no carry case), and the lack of a linear sub-bass response. If you already have a ton of gear like me, you likely have a ton of tips and spare cases. If not, then you'll have to accessorize after the fact. The sub-bass response is not really changeable, though. I looked into modding the DMG, and short of cracking the shells open, you're not going to change the bass response dramatically. Using the bass filters is just going to dampen the treble and make the bass sound more prominent, but it doesn't solve the lack of balance between the sub-bass and mid-bass.

The bass response overall is still nice and tight, however. It's just not ideal in my book. At the same time, I haven't really heard anything in the sub-$200 price bracket that has bass that satisfies me. It's always either too strong, too much sub-bass, too much loose mid-bass, or all of the above.

I wish I could go around like HBB and enthusiastically endorse the DMG. I do enjoy this DMG, and for the price, it is a superlative value, but I don't know how much I will enjoy it a year from now, or 5 years from now. So is it a must buy? I don't know the answer.
 
Sep 5, 2018 at 11:40 PM Post #37,656 of 99,413
I haven't heard the iBasso IT01, but I remember listening briefly to the IT03 a couple of years ago. These are better in terms of tonal balance, and just overall better earphone, aside from sub-bass level. Perhaps more importantly, the DMG are much more comfortable in the ears, and feel better made (more substantial feeling than the light plastic construction of the IT03). While I haven't really paid attention to most of the other popular chi-fi earphones out there, I find the DMG a really great value. They don't stick out of people's ears, and are not too heavy, but not flimsy feeling. I don't feel any kind of pressure on my cavum concha even with long wear sessions. The only discomfort I had was with the cable interfering with my glasses, but I've switched out the cable for Linum BaX cables, and the DMG have become one of the most comfortable IEMs I've worn. They're not super isolating, though, in comparison with the Etymotic-like fit I employ with the Klipsch X20i.

I haven't heard the CFA Comet. It looks glitzy, and I know Ken Ball designs his IEMs with love and care. But while I love single BA earphones, they do not sound the same as multi-driver hybrids. So I think it's up to you to figure out whether you want a simple single BA sound (i.e. phase correct, balanced, but average soundstage), or a multi-driver hybrid sound (i.e. better detail retrieval, less balance but more emotive, not quite phase correct, but has a larger, more spherical soundstage).

To me, the biggest drawbacks of the DMG are the lackluster accessories (included tip selection is terrible, and there is no carry case), and the lack of a linear sub-bass response. If you already have a ton of gear like me, you likely have a ton of tips and spare cases. If not, then you'll have to accessorize after the fact. The sub-bass response is not really changeable, though. I looked into modding the DMG, and short of cracking the shells open, you're not going to change the bass response dramatically. Using the bass filters is just going to dampen the treble and make the bass sound more prominent, but it doesn't solve the lack of balance between the sub-bass and mid-bass.

The bass response overall is still nice and tight, however. It's just not ideal in my book. At the same time, I haven't really heard anything in the sub-$200 price bracket that has bass that satisfies me. It's always either too strong, too much sub-bass, too much loose mid-bass, or all of the above.

I wish I could go around like HBB and enthusiastically endorse the DMG. I do enjoy this DMG, and for the price, it is a superlative value, but I don't know how much I will enjoy it a year from now, or 5 years from now. So is it a must buy? I don't know the answer.


Thanks for the response, i appreciate the sentiment behind the uncertainty.

Regarding bass - especially extension I know what you're talking about. My old ASG 2's really reach down there, but to be honest I'm pretty satisfied with the LZ-A4 in that regard. My preference with bass is if the music is bassy - I want to hear it. I mostly listen to alt-rock, where deep extension to me isn't absolutely mandatory unlike trance or psychedelic rock or anything else where the lower frequencies are generated to be prominent.

I'd like something I can put in a soft-clamshell case and chuck in my backpack and not worry about. I rarely kill IEMs so build quality needs to be great but not necessarily overbuilt to the degree where it's a selling point. My aurisonics rocket's are going great - my brother killed his in a year (longest he's had anything).
 
Sep 5, 2018 at 11:45 PM Post #37,657 of 99,413
I haven't heard the iBasso IT01, but I remember listening briefly to the IT03 a couple of years ago. These are better in terms of tonal balance, and just overall better earphone, aside from sub-bass level. Perhaps more importantly, the DMG are much more comfortable in the ears, and feel better made (more substantial feeling than the light plastic construction of the IT03). While I haven't really paid attention to most of the other popular chi-fi earphones out there, I find the DMG a really great value. They don't stick out of people's ears, and are not too heavy, but not flimsy feeling. I don't feel any kind of pressure on my cavum concha even with long wear sessions. The only discomfort I had was with the cable interfering with my glasses, but I've switched out the cable for Linum BaX cables, and the DMG have become one of the most comfortable IEMs I've worn. They're not super isolating, though, in comparison with the Etymotic-like fit I employ with the Klipsch X20i.

I haven't heard the CFA Comet. It looks glitzy, and I know Ken Ball designs his IEMs with love and care. But while I love single BA earphones, they do not sound the same as multi-driver hybrids. So I think it's up to you to figure out whether you want a simple single BA sound (i.e. phase correct, balanced, but average soundstage), or a multi-driver hybrid sound (i.e. better detail retrieval, less balance but more emotive, not quite phase correct, but has a larger, more spherical soundstage).

To me, the biggest drawbacks of the DMG are the lackluster accessories (included tip selection is terrible, and there is no carry case), and the lack of a linear sub-bass response. If you already have a ton of gear like me, you likely have a ton of tips and spare cases. If not, then you'll have to accessorize after the fact. The sub-bass response is not really changeable, though. I looked into modding the DMG, and short of cracking the shells open, you're not going to change the bass response dramatically. Using the bass filters is just going to dampen the treble and make the bass sound more prominent, but it doesn't solve the lack of balance between the sub-bass and mid-bass.

The bass response overall is still nice and tight, however. It's just not ideal in my book. At the same time, I haven't really heard anything in the sub-$200 price bracket that has bass that satisfies me. It's always either too strong, too much sub-bass, too much loose mid-bass, or all of the above.

I wish I could go around like HBB and enthusiastically endorse the DMG. I do enjoy this DMG, and for the price, it is a superlative value, but I don't know how much I will enjoy it a year from now, or 5 years from now. So is it a must buy? I don't know the answer.

I appreciate your effort in giving us a sincere and responsible opinion on these iems knowing you references are limited to high end gear. Me, from the other side, only have references on the cheap side. So i take anything i heard from you with that filter on. Thanks for clarifying things. I am still hopeful of these iems. Also, do they respond well to eq in sub bass ?
 
Sep 6, 2018 at 6:02 AM Post #37,658 of 99,413
If you mean that you will literally carry them around loose in your pocket, I would recommend investing in the superior build quality of the Comets. Nothing against the IT01, but between the cable issues, the plastic shell, and the easier to damage dynamic driver, I wouldn't gamble on its long lifespan if it's being carried around in pockets.

Cable issue, what cable issue?

I think the build quality is pretty good on the IT01, maybe not up to the Comets standard but your paying extra for that, as for which one would last the longest in the pocket is any ones guess.

Thanks for the response, i appreciate the sentiment behind the uncertainty.

Regarding bass - especially extension I know what you're talking about. My old ASG 2's really reach down there, but to be honest I'm pretty satisfied with the LZ-A4 in that regard. My preference with bass is if the music is bassy - I want to hear it. I mostly listen to alt-rock, where deep extension to me isn't absolutely mandatory unlike trance or psychedelic rock or anything else where the lower frequencies are generated to be prominent.

I'd like something I can put in a soft-clamshell case and chuck in my backpack and not worry about. I rarely kill IEMs so build quality needs to be great but not necessarily overbuilt to the degree where it's a selling point. My aurisonics rocket's are going great - my brother killed his in a year (longest he's had anything).

I would say I'm a bit of a basshead, and I don't find the IT01 lacking at all, I think the Comets would have less bass than the IT01, especially if you like the ASG 2.
 
Sep 6, 2018 at 6:11 AM Post #37,659 of 99,413
Speaking with hisenior, they recommended me the h6. Wich is a b5 + one 7mm DD. A bit to expensive for me. But got my eyes on h4, 7mm + 3knowles. Price more close to b5.

H4 -
SmartSelect_20180905-204225_AliExpress.jpg

H6 -
SmartSelect_20180905-204313_AliExpress.jpg
 
Sep 6, 2018 at 8:04 AM Post #37,660 of 99,413
Cable issue, what cable issue?

I think the build quality is pretty good on the IT01, maybe not up to the Comets standard but your paying extra for that, as for which one would last the longest in the pocket is any ones guess.

Well, cable issues like: the connection cutting in and out due to bad soldering, the MMCX plug and cable not quite being universal, and the occasional inward collapse of the MMCX jack. iBasso is a great company that backs up their products, but there are valid concerns about the build of the IT01.
 
Sep 6, 2018 at 9:11 AM Post #37,661 of 99,413
Well, cable issues like: the connection cutting in and out due to bad soldering, the MMCX plug and cable not quite being universal, and the occasional inward collapse of the MMCX jack. iBasso is a great company that backs up their products, but there are valid concerns about the build of the IT01.

That's pretty much an MMCX issue in general, not helped by people who don't know how to detach them, this makes me cringe every time I watch it.



I only read one person who had the jack collapse problem, I don't think any manufacturer has 100% perfect manufacturing, trouble is they always seem to send them in my direction :triportsad:

I will say though Campfire Audio seem to go that extra mile with quality even on their MMCX connectors which I believe are hardened.
 
Sep 6, 2018 at 9:24 AM Post #37,662 of 99,413
That's pretty much an MMCX issue in general, not helped by people who don't know how to detach them, this makes me cringe every time I watch it.



I only read one person who had the jack collapse problem, I don't think any manufacturer has 100% perfect manufacturing, trouble is they always seem to send them in my direction :triportsad:

I will say though Campfire Audio seem to go that extra mile with quality even on their MMCX connectors which I believe are hardened.

He is a great reviewer, I love the way he does his reviews, so calm and sounds like a reliable person to get help from. Best of all, he reviews a lot of chifi stuff that we seek.
 
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Sep 6, 2018 at 9:41 AM Post #37,663 of 99,413
I'd like something I can put in a soft-clamshell case and chuck in my backpack and not worry about. I rarely kill IEMs so build quality needs to be great but not necessarily overbuilt to the degree where it's a selling point. My aurisonics rocket's are going great - my brother killed his in a year (longest he's had anything).
If you'll be putting them in a clamshell case, then you won't have to worry about breaking them. They're not that fragile. Certainly, they might scratch and dent if you're dropping them all day, but they have a (3D printed?) internal frame that keeps all the drivers together, and the external CNC shell is a two-piece part that doesn't seem easy to pry apart. But they're not as bulletproof as the Rockets, so don't let your brother near them!

Also, do they respond well to eq in sub bass ?
Sorry, I have not tried EQ. It's not really what I do.
 
Sep 6, 2018 at 9:56 AM Post #37,664 of 99,413
That's pretty much an MMCX issue in general, not helped by people who don't know how to detach them, this makes me cringe every time I watch it.



I only read one person who had the jack collapse problem, I don't think any manufacturer has 100% perfect manufacturing, trouble is they always seem to send them in my direction :triportsad:

I will say though Campfire Audio seem to go that extra mile with quality even on their MMCX connectors which I believe are hardened.


As someone who does not have alot of experience with mmcx can you tell me what is the reviewer doing wrong and what is the correct way to detach mmcx cables?
 
Sep 6, 2018 at 10:13 AM Post #37,665 of 99,413
So I had an interestesting purchase from an Aliexpress vendor last night. It was an electronics vendor that dabbed in headphones and a few earphones. I was browsing the Aliexpress and I came uppon a price that was so good I was shocked. It was for the alternate version of the HK8. The HK8 and the other version goes for as much as $300 was recently on sale for $250.

Since getting the NK10 I didn't find the need to get them. Though I am interested in the 8 BA iem. These guys were selling for $195 without cable.

Long story short. It was in deed too good to be true. Vendor got back to me and told me due to QC issues they can't provide me with said earphone. So moral of the story. If it looks too good to be true. Especially on Aliexpress. Would have been worth a try if the vendor came through with the price but alas it was not meant to be.

Looking forward to the NK10 and DMGs.
 

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