[Glmoneydawg]

That may be because the music you were listening to didn't have much content in that range. 20Hz to 40Hz is mostly present in hip hop and organ music. Not so much in classic rock or top 40.

Agreed....hip hop is artificially bloated at the bottom end though...and i do love me some Misourski Pictures music...oh yeah...an hour ago you where arguing that 20 to 40hz weren't that important. ...mixed signals here.

 

[Steve999]

My speakers/room are reasonably flat down to 20hz..the only time i appreciate it is when i'm setting up my bass section and playing my setup frequency sweep.

But in the middle of the music, how do you know whether or not the keyboardist is vamping on a low A (27 hz?) and a few notes up? Or the bass player has a 5 string bass and so is going a perfect 4th interval lower than 40 hz, for effect, (more and more common, even in jazz fusion).

The point being, in the middle of all that traffic, the low frequencies feel good, even if you notice it best in a frequency sweep. Of course the recording has to have that content. It can be mimicked by upper harmonics but the real deal feels different, like rock solid bone cold.

If a pianist decides he is going to hit his low A, that's 27.5 hertz. I wanna hear it, not just the harmonics that clue my brain in that something happened down there.

It doesn't have to be artificially bloated, it can be balanced and clean and LOW.

 

[Glmoneydawg]

But in the middle of the music, how do you know whether or not the keyboardist is vamping on a low c (27 hz?) Or the bass player has a 5 string bass and so is going a perfect 4th interval lower than 40 hz, for effect, (more and more common, even in jazz fusion).

The point being, in the middle of all that traffic, the low frequencies feel good, even if you notice it best in a frequency sweep. Of course the recording has to have that content. It can be mimicked by upper harmonics but the real deal feels different, like rock solid bone cold.

I know because my wife will come downstairs and visit my soundroom.....and ask me if i have lost my mind

 

[Steve999]

I know because my wife will come downstairs and visit my soundroom.....and ask me if i have lost my mind

LOL!

I should have said a low A by the way, at 27.5 hz.

And yes, I've been there. Even my teenage kids think I'm a bit . . . LOUD and LOW.

 

[Glmoneydawg]

LOL!

I should have said a low A by the way, at 27.5 hz.

And yes, I've been there. Even my teenage kids think I'm a bit . . . LOUD.

Lol yep...just saying there's not a lot of music that takes advantage of our ability to reproduce deep bass.I still love it when its present though!

 

[Zapp_Fan]

Well, what I mean is a lowpass at 5khz is unacceptable for my listening equipment, so is a lowpass at 10khz. A fail is a fail, it's like asking me if I want a brick or broken glass for lunch. The glass is worse, but neither one is lunch.

I'm not disputing that different bands being removed hurt the sound more.

 

[Steve999]

Btw youtube is brickwalled at 15khz and i don't hear any complaints.

Interesting piece of info. Thanks,

 

[analogsurviver]

20 to 40hz in particular,while impressive sounding/feeling seems musically insignificant.While 10khz to 20khz seems to to add that last bit of space and ambiance it certainly isn't the difference between enjoying and not enjoying a piece of music.Good music is enjoyable on car stereos,clock radios,crappy computer speakers ect.Btw youtube is brickwalled at 15khz and i don't hear any complaints.

Agreed that the extremes are less significant than core frequencies. However, that last bit of space and ambience I definitely DO find important for the enjoyment of music. And that's why I insist on having > 20 kHz.

It depends on what you are usually listening to.

Live ? It has unlimited response - from DC to > 100 kHz. How much more, where is the actual limit - currently unknown, as both the microphones and recorders at the time are not accurate above 100 kHz.

Analogue ? From approx 5 Hz to approx anything between 25 kHz and 50 kHz - depending on the actual equipment used.

RBCD ? DC to 22050 Hz - flat to 20 kHz.

MP3 ? DC to 16 kHz.

HiRez ? DC up to 100 kHz, maybe double that with the latest ADC/DAC combos - but nobody is supplying a concrete spec, only deductible from the sampling frequencies used. Nobody in HiRez is going to brickwall filter the output - and flat output is likely to be considerably lower in frequency than RBCD bricwall type filtering would yield.

And, YES, I will go to the claim that I complain regarding youtube brickwalling above 15 kHz. To hear that for yourself, all it takes is a weekend using Stax headphones watching videos on YT. Then, use ANY reasonably high quality turntable and record that is in decent condition - and try to compare the sound of the same song on YT with that from the turntable. If you put a bit more effort, you may well find EXACTLY THE SAME PRESSING ( not only mastering...) as that spinninng on your TT.

Just because the tiny fraction of a percent or promile or whatever the number does such comparisons - and the vast majority does not - does not mean the difference does not exist or that it is not audible. It can be painful to the point you can't listen to the YT for some time after being exposed to the original.

Watching movies on YT using Stax rig brings a wealth of information you would otherwise simply - miss. And it learns you pretty quick that Hollywod type of professionaly done movie sound can only go so far - there definitely IS beyond that, but you will have to invest great deal of time and if english is your native language, swallow the fact that most likely you will be forced to read subtitles.

 

[KeithEmo]

I agree with everything you've said here - but it is also largely irrelevant.

I often listen to SiriusXM radio in my car.
I like the stations, and the DJs, and I get to hear some new music without any annoying commercials.
However, I wouldn't listen to it in my living room - because the audio quality is noticeably and annoyingly inferior.
But, when I'm driving, that isn't the priority (I can't exactly sit back, close my eyes, and concentrate on the music).
I've also been known to watch a TV set in a sports bar that has a fuzzy picture and dubious color accuracy.

I agree that many audiophiles probably have a poor perspective on how important accurate reproduction is.
And I also agree that many people who don't fancy themselves to be audiphiles don't care at all.
And that goes for accurate full range frequency response, various types of distortion, and noise.
Sure, I CAN listen to a TV show on a TV with a 4" speaker... and I can watch it on one that's standard def.
However, I will usually enjoy it MORE if the sound is high fidelity, and the picture is high-resolution.

Obviously the relative importance of each of those things is up to each of us as an individual.
However, from the point of sound science, none of that is relevant.
All that matters is whether it is POSSIBLE for us to tell the difference...
If we consider it to be important and choose to listen for it.

I have VERY FEW audio recordings that actually contain a 32 Hz organ note.
However, when I play one of them, I still very much want to hear it coming out of my speakers.
Likewise, perhaps only a few intruments, like cymbals, have a significant amount of high frequency harmonics.
However, when I play a well recorded track that includes cymbals, I want them there in the proper amounts.

Try it and see. I've done lots of playing around ducking out each of the octaves using an equalizer and 10-20kHz is a lot less important than you might think. We listen to sound without the upper octave all the time on TV and the radio and in the car and none of us complains. I think the importance of the various octaves is directly related to how well we can hear them.

 

[KeithEmo]

There are big differences between "audible", " noticeable", "significant", and "important"...
And each of us has different standards for each.

For example, when asked how to "set up a subwoofer properly by ear", the most common response from anyone in the home theater industry will be: "Turn the sub up until you can just hear it... then turn it down a little bit. You should NOT notice a subwoofer as a source of sound. However, if you turn it OFF, you'll notice that the music sounds less solid, and less physically palpable."

Most people really don't make the distinction whether they actually hear 20 Hz - or whether they feel it - or a little bit of both. But they do notice that old T-Rex doesn't shake the floor, and you don't feel his roar, when the sub isn't working. My point is that it's not necessarily especially useful to make distinctions about whether a bass note is heard, or felt, or both. The point is that, whether most people can hear 20 Hz, or 32 Hz, or not, many of them will notice if the lowest octave is missing from the sound track of the movie they're watching, or from a well-recorded organ track. And the same holds true for that last little bit of "air" at the top end. You can live without it - but things sound better when it's there.

20 to 40hz in particular,while impressive sounding/feeling seems musically insignificant.While 10khz to 20khz seems to to add that last bit of space and ambiance it certainly isn't the difference between enjoying and not enjoying a piece of music.Good music is enjoyable on car stereos,clock radios,crappy computer speakers ect.Btw youtube is brickwalled at 15khz and i don't hear any complaints.

 

[KeithEmo]

I absolutely agree.

I see no point in arguing about which terrible flaws are less intolerable...
Since we are quite capable of eliminating them with a little effort.

Well, what I mean is a lowpass at 5khz is unacceptable for my listening equipment, so is a lowpass at 10khz. A fail is a fail, it's like asking me if I want a brick or broken glass for lunch. The glass is worse, but neither one is lunch.

I'm not disputing that different bands being removed hurt the sound more.

 

[KeithEmo]

That is interesting...

I've watched, and listened to, a lot of Youtube videos....
And, while I often enjoy them, I don't recall every hearing one that I thought sounded "good" let alone "very good"....

20 to 40hz in particular,while impressive sounding/feeling seems musically insignificant.While 10khz to 20khz seems to to add that last bit of space and ambiance it certainly isn't the difference between enjoying and not enjoying a piece of music.Good music is enjoyable on car stereos,clock radios,crappy computer speakers ect.Btw youtube is brickwalled at 15khz and i don't hear any complaints.

 

[james444]

Btw youtube is brickwalled at 15khz and i don't hear any complaints.

It's funny they have a lot of hearing tests with frequency sweeps from 20Hz to 20kHz. For example this "20Hz to 20kHz Earrape":


And some people comment they hear something at 18k, but if you analyze the audio it looks like this:

 

[castleofargh]

It's funny they have a lot of hearing tests with frequency sweeps from 20Hz to 20kHz. For example this "20Hz to 20kHz Earrape":


And some people comment they hear something at 18k, but if you analyze the audio it looks like this:

with so many people saying they can hear something at 17 or 18kHz on that sweep, you shouldn't reject the possibility that they really do.
oh wait! ^_^

just in case I also checked at various resolution settings for the vid, same thing.

 

[analogsurviver]

with so many people saying they can hear something at 17 or 18kHz on that sweep, you shouldn't reject the possibility that they really do.
oh wait! ^_^

just in case I also checked at various resolution settings for the vid, same thing.

It is perfectly possible for the people using lower quality devices to hear "something" up there ; decent devices should be quiet, but not-so-decent might well emit some kind of noise/distortion. Whatever it is, it is not intended signal, though.