[james444]

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James444 - Interesting how you heard the W4s this time round. Perhaps you'll end up liking the EX600 more than the EX1000s. Not entirely joking, BTW.

I don't think so and really wish I had my EX1000 for a proper A/B. The EX600 are far from being bass monsters, but are bordering on too much with some recordings (eg. the KC Mainz recording). I can't remember feeling the same about my EX1000. Likewise I'd wish for less forward mids and slightly more/better treble with a few recordings on the EX600, whereas the EX1000 sounded spot-on with pretty much all of my stuff.
 
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Thanks james, crossing W4 off the list now Lol.

Don't take my remark too seriously. You love the CK10 and the W4 certainly wouldn't sound "small" next to these. It's more that the Sonys just sound "big" to these ears and there's something so addicting about the output of their 16mm drivers.

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The graphs should be read with a holistic approach. The EX1000's main spike is actually at 5.5k, while the EX700s is at exactly 6k. But the EX700s bigger dips on the upper-mids will accentuate that spike more than the EX1000s 5.5k spike. The response is actually the same at 6k, but once again, the EX1000s transfer more of that energy  to the upper mids. 
 
 

I wonder do tips play a role in measuring frequency response, as they certainly do for the human ear, even tip placement on the nozzle. I let dfkt listen to the EX600 and he liked them but said they sounded slightly veiled. Turned out he had his tips placed just a few mm further towards the front of the nozzle than me and that made a significant difference. I assume they need to use tips on their IEMs to produce those FR-graphs, so how do they ensure the same conditions while measuring different models? Not doubting the graphs, it's just an aspect I've been thinking about.

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James, you should hear the W4's with a digiZoid zo attached.  It really puts those dual bass drivers to good work.  Dfkt has written a really good review on the zo.

Well in fact dfkt let me try his zo during our last meet, but tbo it failed to impress me. I didn't hear it with the W4 though, just his e-Q5 and the GR10 that I had brought along. He's just much more of a bass lover, whereas most of my current IEMs have already enough bass for my taste on flat EQ. Btw. that remark about the W4 sounding "small" wasn't about bass in particular, more an overall impression as compared to the Sonys. I should have phrased it differently though, as the Sonys just sound "big" to my ears and the W4 not "smaller" than most others.

 

[kiteki]

My ck10 sounded small next to the EX700 as well, not in soundstage, just in delivery of the notes, like rain versus monsoon.
 
Someone else commented the W4 sounded very warm and smooth, at the end of the day I seem to favour more cold and clean headphone's, as nice as analog warmth is, I'm not saving up 400+ for some light summer rain, I want a detailed tsunami.

 

[dogears]

I hope this part changes on your next listening It's almost the perfect IEM upgrade from the DBAs?
 
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2-Likewise the slight glare around 6-7khz.  Using both my DACPort and 602 I can't get rid of the upper mid/lower treble splashiness.  Snares, High hats, sometimes female vocals are just too much.  The 602 does better as it does w/ the GR07 but it's still there.  Once you notice it you can't really let go and it's all too apparent afterward.  I'm beginning to think that both the GR07 and EX1000 were voiced w/ Asian languages in mind as this seems to be quite common wrt this target market.

 

 

[kiteki]

@dogears - decored Shure Olive tips will tame the peakiness and overall improve sound quality a bit. (from my experiments on EX700).
 
At the low asking price it's the FOTW now, but upgrading from DBA-02 you could be either dissapointed or very happy as they are very different (referencing ck10 vs ex700).

 

[Anaxilus]

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I hope this part changes on your next listening It's almost the perfect IEM upgrade from the DBAs?

Hmm, the DBA is very unique.  Nothing I've heard for the price can match it for the extreme clarity, speed and that natural roundness of note that escapes so many BA's.  The EX1000, like other dynamics still can't match that clarity and speed.  It's all about what you want and the compromises you can live with.  
 
I'd say it's more a perfect upgrade to the GR07 or DDM1/2.  IERM is the DBA upgrade and even then the DBA has a few tricks up it's sleeve for a less accurate more euphonic listen. 
 

 

[Anaxilus]

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At the low asking price it's the FOTW now, but upgrading from DBA-02 you could be either dissapointed or very happy as they are very different (referencing ck10 vs ex700).

Agreed.  Beat me to the punch.  Your reference applies just as well between DBA and Sony EX.
 

 

[dogears]

^Thanks for pointing those out. Much appreciated.

 

[music_4321]

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^ Also worth noting is that the MDR-7550 cable is 1.6m (64"), which is 40cm (8") longer than the EX1000/EX600 cables.

 
WRONG: 40cm is 16" not 8".

 

[music_4321]

 
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I don't think so and really wish I had my EX1000 for a proper A/B. The EX600 are far from being bass monsters, but are bordering on too much with some recordings (eg. the KC Mainz recording). I can't remember feeling the same about my EX1000. Likewise I'd wish for less forward mids and slightly more/better treble with a few recordings on the EX600, whereas the EX1000 sounded spot-on with pretty much all of my stuff.
 

 

I think the Mainz gig - or almost any live recording from that 1974 tour - is not the best/ideal recording to judge an IEM's bass response (specially quantity-wise) because the bass on those particular recordings is very forward (read loud) in the mix. In fact, violinist David Cross complained at the time that the rhythm section was becoming more and more dominant and he gradually felt more out of place in the band. The Toronto performance CD I got a few days ago sounds a little less 'overpowering' and the quality of the recording is also a little better. In the 1973 tour, on the other hand, and in particular the Amsterdam, Zurich, Glasgow & Atlanta shows the bass & rhythm sections are less forward and, therefore, more balanced in the mix. None of these 73-74 recordings were meant to be officially released, BTW.
 
Having said that, it takes an IEM with truly excellent bass performance to deliver more faithfully the sheer power of the bass & rhythm section found on those tours. In that respect the EX1000 does better than the W4, delivering a more lifelike sound.
 
 
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My ck10 sounded small next to the EX700 as well, not in soundstage, just in delivery of the notes, like rain versus monsoon.
 
Someone else commented the W4 sounded very warm and smooth, at the end of the day I seem to favour more cold and clean headphone's, as nice as analog warmth is, I'm not saving up 400+ for some light summer rain, I want a detailed tsunami.

 

I think you may be getting the wrong idea of what the W4s sound like. That doesn't necessarily mean you'd like them, though. FWIW, the W4 is the best BA phone I've personally heard. To be honest, I'm not really sure what James meant by "small" and, to me, the CK10 did not sound small - I've never used that term to describe any IEM sonically - but thin, ie lacking body.
 
Now, I haven't heard the digiZoid zo but my understanding is that it tends to boost bass response, though apparently also improving the quality of it. I don't think the W4's bass needs to be boosted at all, but the W4 responds very well to EQ'ing, perhaps more so than the EX1000.
 

 

[kiteki]

I think when James said "small" he was thinking of the micro-armatures (poodles) versus the 16mm liquid crystal diaphragm (st. bernard).
 
The W4 has two bass poodles, but the EX600 is just one giant woof woof.
__________
 
I'm probably getting the wrong idea about the W4, and I'm sure it's a teriffic IEM in it's own right, it's just I really don't want to spend $$ on an IEM that smooths over violin strings like the ck10 did now, looking for something dry and chalky in the mids this time, with more "staccato" so to speak, and more "aliveness" in the vocals, like a real voice instead of "just a voice", that's what I'm looking for, at least for now.

 
 

 

[james444]

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The W4 has two bass poodles, but the EX600 is just one giant woof woof.

Excellent. Couldn't have said it better.

 
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I'm probably getting the wrong idea about the W4, and I'm sure it's a teriffic IEM in it's own right, it's just I really don't want to spend $$ on an IEM that smooths over violin strings like the ck10 did now, looking for something dry and chalky in the mids this time, with more "staccato" so to speak, and more "aliveness" in the vocals, like a real voice instead of "just a voice", that's what I'm looking for, at least for now.

 
Yes, I think you're slightly on the wrong track regarding the W4, they're neither very warm nor do they smooth things over in my book. In fact they're extremely proficient and probably the most neutral IEMs I've heard, that are yet still fun to listen to. They only thing they fall decidedly short in vs. the Sonys is "perceived phone size" (for lack of a better term). If I wouldn't know better, the Sonys could very well trick me into believing I'm listening to full-sized headphones. I can't quite put my finger on how they do it, most likely there are several factors like bass, texture, soundstage, dynamics ... all I know is that the W4 (like most other IEMs I've heard) don't sound anywhere near as "big" to my ears.

 

[music_4321]

 
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Yes, I think you're slightly on the wrong track regarding the W4, they're neither very warm nor do they smooth things over in my book. In fact they're extremely proficient and probably the most neutral IEMs I've heard, that are yet still fun to listen to. They only thing they fall decidedly short in vs. the Sonys is "perceived phone size" (for lack of a better term). If I wouldn't know better, the Sonys could very well trick me into believing I'm listening to full-sized headphones. I can't quite put my finger on how they do it, most likely there are several factors like bass, texture, soundstage, dynamics ... all I know is that the W4 (like most other IEMs I've heard) don't sound anywhere near as "big" to my ears.

 

Oh, now I understand what you meant by "small" -> "perceived phone size".
 
While I agree with pretty much everything else in your post above, the W4s didn't strike me as sounding that "small" at all. I completely agree that listening to the EX1000s is really like listening to full-sized cans --yes, bigger cans than the W4s-- and not unnaturally so and, like you, I wonder how Sony achieved that without creating a forced/fake/artificial type of sound. BUT, I never heard the W4s that much "smaller"; smaller, yes, but not having such a dramatic 'size' difference. So, a noticeable size difference, yes, but not that significant, not "a poodle next to a full grown St. Bernard" - at least to these ears, that is.
 

 

[james444]

^ Would you agree on two poodles?

 

[music_4321]

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 Would you agree on two poodles? 

 
 
   

 

[shotgunshane]

The JVC fx700's definitely sound big, like full size headphones to me due to the bigger bass presence and dynamics. They easily project an out of head experience. I think the zo helps the W4 close that gap in regards to those aspects. It adds much more texture to the bass and increases dynamics. It really turns those poodles from well mannered house pets to highly trained ninja attack poodles.