[InstantSilence]

I'm interested in this marvel.
I can't afford new, but maybe... Is there ever any on the used market?
What do they go for?

 

[Litlgi74]

I'm interested in this marvel.
I can't afford new, but maybe... Is there ever any on the used market?
What do they go for?

You can usually find one on head-fi classifieds, eBay, and US Audiomart for $2000 - $3000.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

You can usually find one on head-fi classifieds, eBay, and US Audiomart for $2000 - $3000.

Be forewarned it has a non transferrable warranty from Smyth which means if anything goes wrong, the personal cost will be borne by the new buyer, assuming Smyth Ltd will even deign to work on something not purchased from them or one of their authorized sales agents.

 

[dsperber]

FWIW, Monoprice has a nice 4x2 HDMI switch on sale for 1/2 price:
Blackbird 4K HDMI Matrix, 4x2, HDR, 18G, 4K@60Hz, YCbCr 4:4:4, EDID, Coaxial Audio, Powered Switch, Control Remote - Monoprice.com

This looks like it could be the perfect solution. Instead of the two outputs going to two displays (obviously the normal design objective for such a device) I would send one output to the A8 and the second output to one HDMI input of the AVR (which then feeds the TV and also my small 2-speaker sound).

And the four inputs would be my Oppo 203 (HDMI2-out, for audio-only, really just to feed the A8 for audio), plus my Roku, ATV4K and Shield streamers (all three for audio+video, to feed the A8 for audio and the AVR for video). HDMI1-out of the 203 (video-only) already goes to its own separate HDMI input on the AVR.

It may not be the same story with my current Yamaha RX-A860 AVR as it was with my previous RX-V867, but I was unsuccessful in feeding HDMI pass-through into and out of the A8 and then on to the V867 which then went on to the TV. Something about the HDMI handshake caused the source device(s) to believe the system only supported 2-channel stereo. I could not get it to deliver multi-channel audio. That's what prompted me to use the "split-A/V" design of the Oppo to address the issue. HDMI1-out was for video-only feeding the AVR and TV, and HDMI2-out was for audio-only (feeding the A8 and stopping there). And now the source was happy, and multi-channel audio was delivered via HDMI.

The problem appears to have been resolved with the A16, because I do use HDMI pass-through and the source devices all deliver multi-channel audio via HDMI.

So there's no reason for me to even deal with this potential problem again using this 4x2 switch. I can just dead-end audio at the A8 and hopefully the source devices will still be delivering multi-channel audio even though they will also be seeing the TV out of the AVR at the other end of the second output of the switch. But the TV is an LG C9, which supports accepting Dolby Atmos (i.e. multi-channel) audio input via HDMI.

We shall see. I just purchased it, since I obviously need something to handle the increasingly complex job of interconnecting so many audio/video devices with the impending absence of the A16 and its own four HDMI inputs.

Thanks very much for the suggestion. Great idea.

 

[dsperber]

I find it hard to believe based on your initial recounting of things that the ATV could have caused a hardware failure on the Realiser. I just can't help but believe it rather screwed up the firmware/OS at some level. If inputs from an HDMI cable are "breaking" the A16, then its design is badly broken already. Never heard of a consumer product that could be broken in that way. I have to believe a comprehensive reboot will fix it.

I agree with your assessment. It does seem impossible to believe the ATV4K could have been responsible for breaking the A16. But it's also just too coincidental that I've never seen an Error 001 red screen before feeding supposed Dolby Digital 5.1 fabricated by tthe ATV4K (by re-encoding the DD+ 5.1 audio received from Hulu).

I actually thought it was probably some kind of malformed DD5.1 stream out of the ATV4K, that didn't conform to Dolby Audio spec as expected by the A16, or something like that. I certainly didn't anticipate any hardware damage from what is nothing more than a program abend. But who knows what got spewed out of some component chip into some other component chip as a result? And apparently mine is now what, the second or third such "stall" that's been reported, which appears unfixable by the user and requires being sent back for probably hardware repair/replacement?

Anyway, now that I've acquired three of the "major players" in the streaming device market, and have spent much time developing a matrix of tabulated audio/video results using all three devices with four of the major streaming sources (Netflix, Hulu, Prime Video, HBO Max), I can tell you that NONE of the three devices is without its negatives. You really have to test each of the three devices with each of the four streaming sources and present the results in a spreadsheet, in order to realize that not one of the three devices is "perfect" for all four streaming sources. I'm not concerned with additional media/network/storage capabilities that the devices might have. I'm only concerned with the core function of internet streaming and delivery of audio/video in best possible quality.

Adding to the complexity, while the big four (and other major players) are supported by the Shield, there are many minor streaming apps (e.g. lots of Virtual Cinema players) who have only catered to Roku and ATV with apps. No app for Shield once you leave the major player arena. So while the Shield is blessed to be the ONLY device that actually supports ALL resolutions as well as ALL fractional (e.g. 23.976) and integer frame rates (e.g. 24 and 25), unfortunately it is badly deficient in apps once you leave the major group.

Also the Shield does NOT possess an "automatic framerate match" feature (to automatically set the TV's refresh rate to match the frame rate of the source content), apparently due to licensing and certification issues forced on them from Netflix (which has a large and growing collection of content at 24.000). Even though all resolutions and frame rates are supported by the Shield, YOU MUST MANUALLY SET THE CONFIGURATION YOURSELF, if you're obsessive like me and always want content to be displayed on the TV in exactly the same frame rate as got delivered in the source content. I, personally, am not happy to display 24.000 or 25.000 as 23.976, or to dislay 23.976, 24.000 and 25.000 as 59.88. Why can't I just display 23.976 as 23.976, 24.000 as 24.000, 25.000 as 25.000, 59.88 as 59.88, and 60.000 as 60.000? The Shield can display every frame rate "native", but you have to set it manually in Settings when necessary.

Don't even ask what Roku and ATV4K do with this mix of content. And it further even depends on the particular app, on that particular device. There is no consistent regularity.

It's a jungle out there.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I agree with your assessment. It does seem impossible to believe the ATV4K could have been responsible for breaking the A16. But it's also just too coincidental that I've never seen an Error 001 red screen before feeding supposed Dolby Digital 5.1 fabricated by tthe ATV4K (by re-encoding the DD+ 5.1 audio received from Hulu).

I actually thought it was probably some kind of malformed DD5.1 stream out of the ATV4K, that didn't conform to Dolby Audio spec as expected by the A16, or something like that. I certainly didn't anticipate any hardware damage from what is nothing more than a program abend. But who knows what got spewed out of some component chip into some other component chip as a result? And apparently mine is now what, the second or third such "stall" that's been reported, which appears unfixable by the user and requires being sent back for probably hardware repair/replacement?

Anyway, now that I've acquired three of the "major players" in the streaming device market, and have spent much time developing a matrix of tabulated audio/video results using all three devices with four of the major streaming sources (Netflix, Hulu, Prime Video, HBO Max), I can tell you that NONE of the three devices is without its negatives. You really have to test each of the three devices with each of the four streaming sources and present the results in a spreadsheet, in order to realize that not one of the three devices is "perfect" for all four streaming sources. I'm not concerned with additional media/network/storage capabilities that the devices might have. I'm only concerned with the core function of internet streaming and delivery of audio/video in best possible quality.

Adding to the complexity, while the big four (and other major players) are supported by the Shield, there are many minor streaming apps (e.g. lots of Virtual Cinema players) who have only catered to Roku and ATV with apps. No app for Shield once you leave the major player arena. So while the Shield is blessed to be the ONLY device that actually supports ALL resolutions as well as ALL fractional (e.g. 23.976) and integer frame rates (e.g. 24 and 25), unfortunately it is badly deficient in apps once you leave the major group.

Also the Shield does NOT possess an "automatic framerate match" feature (to automatically set the TV's refresh rate to match the frame rate of the source content), apparently due to licensing and certification issues forced on them from Netflix (which has a large and growing collection of content at 24.000). Even though all resolutions and frame rates are supported by the Shield, YOU MUST MANUALLY SET THE CONFIGURATION YOURSELF, if you're obsessive like me and always want content to be displayed on the TV in exactly the same frame rate as got delivered in the source content. I, personally, am not happy to display 24.000 or 25.000 as 23.976, or to dislay 23.976, 24.000 and 25.000 as 59.88. Why can't I just display 23.976 as 23.976, 24.000 as 24.000, 25.000 as 25.000, 59.88 as 59.88, and 60.000 as 60.000? The Shield can display every frame rate "native", but you have to set it manually in Settings when necessary.

Don't even ask what Roku and ATV4K do with this mix of content. And it further even depends on the particular app, on that particular device. There is no consistent regularity.
w
It's a jungle out there.

To me it looks like I'll be choosing the Shield. I also have an early Roku which I'll use for the oddball channels, and which I'll send directly to my late model off brand Chinese set (I'll run it into the ground and then buy an Oled) and connect via spidf to my speaker preamp. I'll reserve the Shield for Netflix (hopefully it will pass Atmos in its 24 channel glory) and Amazon Prime. I don't have Hulu b/c last I checked they only do stereo. No Hbo (not sure, does Nvidia stream Atmos for it?) either, maybe later, but I think I'm mostly covered for streaming Atmos via Netflix and maybe Amazon Prime (coming soon?).

And I'm sure everyone would love it if you shared your table.

 

[audiohobbit]

@dsperber:
you should try to install the latest FW. Stephen includes some bugfixes that are not all documented in the updates.
However you should contact Stephen and tell him as exactly as you can what you did before the stalling occured.

 

[Got the Shakes]

I agree with your assessment. It does seem impossible to believe the ATV4K could have been responsible for breaking the A16. But it's also just too coincidental that I've never seen an Error 001 red screen before feeding supposed Dolby Digital 5.1 fabricated by tthe ATV4K (by re-encoding the DD+ 5.1 audio received from Hulu).

I actually thought it was probably some kind of malformed DD5.1 stream out of the ATV4K, that didn't conform to Dolby Audio spec as expected by the A16, or something like that. I certainly didn't anticipate any hardware damage from what is nothing more than a program abend. But who knows what got spewed out of some component chip into some other component chip as a result? And apparently mine is now what, the second or third such "stall" that's been reported, which appears unfixable by the user and requires being sent back for probably hardware repair/replacement?

Anyway, now that I've acquired three of the "major players" in the streaming device market, and have spent much time developing a matrix of tabulated audio/video results using all three devices with four of the major streaming sources (Netflix, Hulu, Prime Video, HBO Max), I can tell you that NONE of the three devices is without its negatives. You really have to test each of the three devices with each of the four streaming sources and present the results in a spreadsheet, in order to realize that not one of the three devices is "perfect" for all four streaming sources. I'm not concerned with additional media/network/storage capabilities that the devices might have. I'm only concerned with the core function of internet streaming and delivery of audio/video in best possible quality.

Adding to the complexity, while the big four (and other major players) are supported by the Shield, there are many minor streaming apps (e.g. lots of Virtual Cinema players) who have only catered to Roku and ATV with apps. No app for Shield once you leave the major player arena. So while the Shield is blessed to be the ONLY device that actually supports ALL resolutions as well as ALL fractional (e.g. 23.976) and integer frame rates (e.g. 24 and 25), unfortunately it is badly deficient in apps once you leave the major group.

Also the Shield does NOT possess an "automatic framerate match" feature (to automatically set the TV's refresh rate to match the frame rate of the source content), apparently due to licensing and certification issues forced on them from Netflix (which has a large and growing collection of content at 24.000). Even though all resolutions and frame rates are supported by the Shield, YOU MUST MANUALLY SET THE CONFIGURATION YOURSELF, if you're obsessive like me and always want content to be displayed on the TV in exactly the same frame rate as got delivered in the source content. I, personally, am not happy to display 24.000 or 25.000 as 23.976, or to dislay 23.976, 24.000 and 25.000 as 59.88. Why can't I just display 23.976 as 23.976, 24.000 as 24.000, 25.000 as 25.000, 59.88 as 59.88, and 60.000 as 60.000? The Shield can display every frame rate "native", but you have to set it manually in Settings when necessary.

Don't even ask what Roku and ATV4K do with this mix of content. And it further even depends on the particular app, on that particular device. There is no consistent regularity.

It's a jungle out there.

They added a match frame rate feature a few months back. It’s in beta and does take a couple of button presses to enable once setup, but you shouldn’t have to go into the Shield video settings every time and manually tweak settings every time. Can’t speak to how it works with Netflix as I haven’t tested it on my Shield Pro, but the feature is there.

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/ans.../match-content-frame-rate-on-shield-tv-(2019)

 

[VandyMan]

No Hbo (not sure, does Nvidia stream Atmos for it?) either, maybe later, but I think I'm mostly covered for streaming Atmos via Netflix and maybe Amazon Prime (coming soon?).

HBO so far has only one Atmos movie (Wonder Woman 1984). Hopefully more are coming.

Prime already supports Atmos content. Look for the 4K version of the content as it is listed separately from the HD/non-Atmos version.

 

[Got the Shakes]

To me it looks like I'll be choosing the Shield. I also have an early Roku which I'll use for the oddball channels, and which I'll send directly to my late model off brand Chinese set (I'll run it into the ground and then buy an Oled) and connect via spidf to my speaker preamp. I'll reserve the Shield for Netflix (hopefully it will pass Atmos in its 24 channel glory) and Amazon Prime. I don't have Hulu b/c last I checked they only do stereo. No Hbo (not sure, does Nvidia stream Atmos for it?) either, maybe later, but I think I'm mostly covered for streaming Atmos via Netflix and maybe Amazon Prime (coming soon?).

And I'm sure everyone would love it if you shared your table.

Hulu has some 5.1 content now. HBO Max currently has one movie with Atmos, but it sounds like the plan is to add more. The Shield HBO Max app was updated before the release of Wonder Woman 84 to support Atmos and Dolby Vision.

 

[dsperber]

Wow. Do I feel dumb! I just "fixed it". (egg on face)

I had decided to follow the suggestion of @audiohobbit and try loading the 1.98 firmware (even though I'm happy with 1.81). So I placed the SVS file on the microSD card and went over to the A16 and inserted it. Then I powered the unit on, preparing for the special power off/on sequence to activate the firmware upgrade logic at boot time.

I was sitting right next to the A16 as it went through its sequence of boot-time screens, and finally got to the main menu. I always look at the USER A and USER B lines at the top, to see when they're both finished loading and active. I'm familiar with the WAIT, LOADING, ACTIVE sequence that is normal. Well strangely, this time the USER A (i.e. me) line never presented "loading". USER B finished fine, but not USER A. Apparently I hadn't noticed this yesterday, because the screen is so small and the type font even smaller.

Anyway, what was appearing in the USER A status box was the word "reload". Hmmm... Since the whole menu is still functional at this point even though the speaker map is not yet presented, I pushed ENTER on the PRESET item, and it presented my PRESET 7 which happens to be the last preset I was fooling with yesterday when the red screen and "stuck menu" disaster struck. In fact I was playing with presets 7, 8 and 9 because I was rearranging cabling due to the recent acquisition of the Shield. And I was setting up different Atmos and PCM rooms for these three presets.

So the status of this preset 7 showed as "reload" (which is actually how it normally always looks when you come to it) but in my excitement I forgot that and thought it was telling me that the memory version of the preset needed to be reloaded (perhaps having gotten corrupted). So I pushed ENTER, and the preset DID reload from its stored copy, and when it was finished then presented HDMI (which again my excited brain thought was now the correct state it should be in).

And now, magically, as if by magic, suddenly the speaker map appeared all on its own! In other words, the stuck boot process had apparently gotten hung up struggling to load the current preset for USER A, and had run into a problem. And apparently it was preset 7 (the last preset I was working on) which must have been in some transitory state or something. Whatever the cause the normal load memory from storage for that preset had failed.

But when I manually requested the very same reloading of that preset myself, apparently that worked! And that also overcame the obstacle the boot process was waiting on. And now the stalled boot process retook control and proceeded forward through its final steps, completing normally with the speaker map now appearing (for preset 7 naturally).

And now all is well again. Obviously the 1.81 firmware upgrade retry I did yesterday didn't fix anything because the problem was a corrupted version of preset 7 in some middling state, which somehow couldn't be overwritten by boot-time loading of the preset from storage. But somehow, my manual request to RELOAD the preset from presumably the very same storage worked!! Strange clues.

So, I feel like an idiot. I'm sure I WROTE out (i.e. saved) preset 7 when I was finished making the changes. But maybe I did something else extraneous?? Can't recall. Regardless I am naturally relieved it's not actually a hardware issue after all, as I think we all struggled to see how I was last doing when the red screens occurred could possibly have triggered hardware damage.

Back in business! Yes, I will probably still go ahead with accepting the 4x2 HDMI switch I ordered just last night (when I thought I was going to be using my A8 for a few months).

Case closed, I guess.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Wow. Do I feel dumb! I just "fixed it". (egg on face)

I had decided to follow the suggestion of @audiohobbit and try loading the 1.98 firmware (even though I'm happy with 1.81). So I placed the SVS file on the microSD card and went over to the A16 and inserted it. Then I powered the unit on, preparing for the special power off/on sequence to activate the firmware upgrade logic at boot time.

I was sitting right next to the A16 as it went through its sequence of boot-time screens, and finally got to the main menu. I always look at the USER A and USER B lines at the top, to see when they're both finished loading and active. I'm familiar with the WAIT, LOADING, ACTIVE sequence that is normal. Well strangely, this time the USER A (i.e. me) line never presented "loading". USER B finished fine, but not USER A. Apparently I hadn't noticed this yesterday, because the screen is so small and the type font even smaller.

Anyway, what was appearing in the USER A status box was the word "reload". Hmmm... Since the whole menu is still functional at this point even though the speaker map is not yet presented, I pushed ENTER on the PRESET item, and it presented my PRESET 7 which happens to be the last preset I was fooling with yesterday when the red screen and "stuck menu" disaster struck. In fact I was playing with presets 7, 8 and 9 because I was rearranging cabling due to the recent acquisition of the Shield. And I was setting up different Atmos and PCM rooms for these three presets.

So the status of this preset 7 showed as "reload" (which is actually how it normally always looks when you come to it) but in my excitement I forgot that and thought it was telling me that the memory version of the preset needed to be reloaded (perhaps having gotten corrupted). So I pushed ENTER, and the preset DID reload from its stored copy, and when it was finished then presented HDMI (which again my excited brain thought was now the correct state it should be in).

And now, magically, as if by magic, suddenly the speaker map appeared all on its own! In other words, the stuck boot process had apparently gotten hung up struggling to load the current preset for USER A, and had run into a problem. And apparently it was preset 7 (the last preset I was working on) which must have been in some transitory state or something. Whatever the cause the normal load memory from storage for that preset had failed.

But when I manually requested the very same reloading of that preset myself, apparently that worked! And that also overcame the obstacle the boot process was waiting on. And now the stalled boot process retook control and proceeded forward through its final steps, completing normally with the speaker map now appearing (for preset 7 naturally).

And now all is well again. Obviously the 1.81 firmware upgrade retry I did yesterday didn't fix anything because the problem was a corrupted version of preset 7 in some middling state, which somehow couldn't be overwritten by boot-time loading of the preset from storage. But somehow, my manual request to RELOAD the preset from presumably the very same storage worked!! Strange clues.

So, I feel like an idiot. I'm sure I WROTE out (i.e. saved) preset 7 when I was finished making the changes. But maybe I did something else extraneous?? Can't recall. Regardless I am naturally relieved it's not actually a hardware issue after all, as I think we all struggled to see how I was last doing when the red screens occurred could possibly have triggered hardware damage.

Back in business! Yes, I will probably still go ahead with accepting the 4x2 HDMI switch I ordered just last night (when I thought I was going to be using my A8 for a few months).

Case closed, I guess.

 

[dsperber]

Wow. Do I feel dumb!

Just saw this item (6) on the list of "what's fixed in this release" for the 1.80 firmware [added emphasis is mine].

I hadn't paid real attention to it or appreciated what it was addressing until today. Clearly this is EXACTLY what happened to me, and EXACTLY why the A16 behaved the way it did. I suspect the red screen / Error 001 situation (whatever it was due to) was the triggering event that started it all:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the loading of user A or user B presets fails to complete (usually as a result of a power outage during the loading process) the A16 will not attempt to automatically reload such presets until they are manually loaded via the preset menu page. This is done to avoid a lock-out situation whereby the unit would continually reload corrupted preset files.

Reinstalling the firmware or restoring factory settings will not circumnavigate this requirement.

If either user A or user B presets remain unloaded, some, or all, of the functionality of the A16 is disabled, so it is important to recognised when this has happened. For example, if the user B preset remains unloaded after power up, the solo/mute and level meters will not function for user A or user B.

To alert users to the fact that a preset remains unloaded, a ‘reload’ warning will now appear in the home page for whichever preset needs attention.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Just saw this item (6) on the list of "what's fixed in this release" for the 1.80 firmware [added emphasis is mine].

I hadn't paid real attention to it or appreciated what it was addressing until today. Clearly this is EXACTLY what happened to me, and EXACTLY why the A16 behaved the way it did. I suspect the red screen / Error 001 situation (whatever it was due to) was the triggering event that started it all:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the loading of user A or user B presets fails to complete (usually as a result of a power outage during the loading process) the A16 will not attempt to automatically reload such presets until they are manually loaded via the preset menu page. This is done to avoid a lock-out situation whereby the unit would continually reload corrupted preset files.

Reinstalling the firmware or restoring factory settings will not circumnavigate this requirement.

If either user A or user B presets remain unloaded, some, or all, of the functionality of the A16 is disabled, so it is important to recognised when this has happened. For example, if the user B preset remains unloaded after power up, the solo/mute and level meters will not function for user A or user B.

To alert users to the fact that a preset remains unloaded, a ‘reload’ warning will now appear in the home page for whichever preset needs attention.

Very good to know. The take away is to always be certain both presets are loaded before doing anything else on the Realiser.

 

[Kelvin Lee]

what is the best method to take measurement using 2 speaker at the moment, i haven use my A16 since 1 year ago.