[Litlgi74]

I would agree that Benchmark really does know its stuff, and that balanced headphones are not worth the trouble. I use a Sennheiser 800s, and I am really pleased with the Realiser and the 800s.

I have had my Realiser since late-September. I have an extensive library on my NAS - 27TB - of SACDs, mostly classical, mostly Mch.

I am a user of JRiver with Realiser deployed in 5.1, which I have found optimal for the 5.0/1 recorded on SACD. My realistic choice was to do the path from the PC to the Realiser in HDMI or USB. USB wins hands down, although HDMI was decent.

I can wait awaile for Atmos, DTS-X or Auro3d to come to fruition.

What PRIRs are you using for your listening room?

 

[fitzcaraldo215]

What PRIRs are you using for your listening room?

Just the BBC/Genelec in the standard configuration as 5.1.

 

[Litlgi74]

Just the BBC/Genelec in the standard configuration as 5.1.

Just out of curiosity... Will you be creating your own PRIRs... Or will you rely solely on the measurements of others?

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Hi guys, new to the Realiser stuff, I have a question :

Let's assume we plug two different headphones into the Realiser.
Before we start picking listening presets for expensive speakers and rooms, it could be useful to equalize the headphones.
And since the headphones are different, we'd need to equalize them individually (using e.g. Oratory PEQ presets).

Does Realiser software allow that ? Defining an individual PEQ preset for each headphone before even picking a listening preset.
So the response for each headphone would be its own PEQ plus the listener's custom HRTF plus the listening preset.

I hope that makes sense.

EDIT - this question may be partially answered on their FAQ :

Q. Can I have headphone equalisation on its own without any virtualisation ?

It is certainly feasible. People have also asked for the ability to compensate for ageing. Both are implemented in the same way. If we have time this may be available at launch. Otherwise it will be a firmware update.

What I don't know is if that's already been implemented, or if it will be anytime soon.
I also don't know if headphone equalisation will be available with virtualisation, like I previously mentioned.

 

[Litlgi74]

Hi guys, new to the Realiser stuff, I have a question :

Let's assume we plug two different headphones into the Realiser.
Before we start picking listening presets for expensive speakers and rooms, it could be useful to equalize the headphones.
And since the headphones are different, we'd need to equalize them individually (using e.g. Oratory PEQ presets).

Does Realiser software allow that ? Defining an individual PEQ preset for each headphone before even picking a listening preset.
So the response for each headphone would be its own PEQ plus the listener's custom HRTF plus the listening preset.

I hope that makes sense.

EDIT - this question may be partially answered on their FAQ :

What I don't know is if that's already been implemented, or if it will be anytime soon.
I also don't know if headphone equalisation will be available WITH virtualisation, like I previously mentioned.

It makes sense... And the Realiser can do what you ask.

 

[sander99]

Hi guys, new to the Realiser stuff, I have a question :

Let's assume we plug two different headphones into the Realiser.
Before we start picking listening presets for expensive speakers and rooms, it could be useful to equalize the headphones.
And since the headphones are different, we'd need to equalize them individually (using e.g. Oratory PEQ presets).

Does Realiser software allow that ? Defining an individual PEQ preset for each headphone before even picking a listening preset.
So the response for each headphone would be its own PEQ plus the listener's custom HRTF plus the listening preset.

I hope that makes sense.

I give a more elaborate answer to explain some of the terminology, and because I sense a possible misunderstanding regarding "PEQ".

For both the user A and B parts you independently choose a preset. In each preset you choose the HPEQ and listening rooms (listening rooms are defined elsewhere in the A16 user interface and contain virtual speakers from one or more PRIRs). So yes, both user parts A and B can be fully personalised independently for 2 simultanious users. And 8 users can be defined, and 16 presets for each user, and 3 x 32 listening rooms (32 Atmos, 32 DTS:X, and 32 PCM).

HPEQ is the headphone compensation. That you can automatically measure with the A16 (with the in-ear mics that are also used for the PRIR measurements), and/or manually change/set. You can have different HPEQs for different combinations of user and headphone. (One and the same headphone will have different headphone-ear interaction with different users, that is why ideally every user must have his/her own HPEQ for each headphone he/she wants to use with the A16).

PRIR stands for Personalised Room Impulse Respons. If you personally measure a PRIR it will implicitly reflect your personal HRTF.

Because HPEQs and PRIRs are seperate you can combine different headphones with one PRIR etc. So if in the future you buy another headphone you can just create a new HPEQ for it and will be able to use it with your existing PRIRs.

You can not use standard PEQ (Parametric Equaliser) settings inside the A16, HPEQs are "structured" a little bit different, more like a graphic equaliser with a somewhat unusual set of bands.
In the future Smyth may implement a Parametric Equaliser but that is per virtual speaker (per input channel so to speak, not per headphone output channel).

listener's custom HRTF plus the listening preset

Here I also sense another possible misunderstanding. A PRIR reflects both measured room/speakers and your personal HRTF. They are not really seperable. Although Smyth is planning to offer a service to personalise a high quality non-personal PRIR (sometimes called BRIR) using a personal measured PRIR from a lower quality system (even only using a tweeter).

 

[Litlgi74]

I give a more elaborate answer to explain some of the terminology, and because I sense a possible misunderstanding regarding "PEQ".

For both the user A and B parts you independently choose a preset. In each preset you choose the HPEQ and listening rooms (listening rooms are defined elsewhere in the A16 user interface and contain virtual speakers from one or more PRIRs). So yes, both user parts A and B can be fully personalised independently for 2 simultanious users. And 8 users can be defined, and 16 presets for each user, and 3 x 32 listening rooms (32 Atmos, 32 DTS:X, and 32 PCM).

HPEQ is the headphone compensation. That you can automatically measure with the A16 (with the in-ear mics that are also used for the PRIR measurements), and/or manually change/set. You can have different HPEQs for different combinations of user and headphone. (One and the same headphone will have different headphone-ear interaction with different users, that is why ideally every user must have his/her own HPEQ for each headphone he/she wants to use with the A16).

PRIR stands for Personalised Room Impulse Respons. If you personally measure a PRIR it will implicitly reflect your personal HRTF.

Because HPEQs and PRIRs are seperate you can combine different headphones with one PRIR etc. So if in the future you buy another headphone you can just create a new HPEQ for it and will be able to use it with your existing PRIRs.

You can not use standard PEQ (Parametric Equaliser) settings inside the A16, HPEQs are "structured" a little bit different, more like a graphic equaliser with a somewhat unusual set of bands.
In the future Smyth may implement a Parametric Equaliser but that is per virtual speaker (per input channel so to speak, not per headphone output channel).

Here I also sense another possible misunderstanding. A PRIR reflects both measured room/speakers and your personal HRTF. They are not really seperable. Although Smyth is planning to offer a service to personalise a high quality non-personal PRIR (sometimes called BRIR) using a personal measured PRIR from a lower quality system (even only using a tweeter).

Wonderful explanation...am I correct in saying that two users are not possible when in 24 channel mode?

 

[sander99]

Wonderful explanation...am I correct in saying that two users are not possible when in 24 channel mode?

Thank you very much.
And yes indeed, in 24 channel mode there can be only one user.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Really great explanation, thank you @sander99 ! So if I understand well, by using the in-ear mics we can obtain HPEQ and save it for each headphone and each user. That's wonderful and better than the usual Oratory presets. Plus we can still change it afterwards and create more presets to our liking (e.g. if for a given headphone and a given user we want a "warm" preset, a "neutral" preset, etc.)

Also, I suppose the A16 can simply function without any virtualization, like a nice DAC + dual headphone amp, but still with individual HPEQ. Am I correct ?

This thing really is a beast. I'm interested. Currently I'm using two DACs + two headphone amps to achieve a similar purpose : dual listening with individual EQing. More info about it here (schematic, tutorial) and here (pictures). It took me a lot of time to achieve it, for less than 500 €, and I'm really happy about it. But I didn't know about the A16 at the time, and this is giving me lots of ideas...

 

[sander99]

Also, I suppose the A16 can simply function without any virtualization, like a nice DAC + dual headphone amp, but still with individual HPEQ. Am I correct ?

The A16 can output "normal headphone stereo" without speaker virtualisation. But I am not sure the HPEQ is being used in that situation, I think not.
Plus: it is a little bit difficult to explain exactly but the function of the HPEQ is actually very specific for the speaker virtualisation, and especially the automatically measured HPEQ (autoHPEQ) is probably not suitable to achieve a "perceived flat" for normal headphone listening without speaker virtualisation. But that doesn't necessarily mean the A16 could not be used for what you have in mind. I will think about it more later, I should get some sleep now.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

The A16 can output "normal headphone stereo" without speaker virtualisation. But I am not sure the HPEQ is being used in that situation, I think not.

Maybe then it would be relevant to add regular individual PEQing to the A16 features. It should be easy for the A16 developers, compared to what it already can do.
That way we could use the A16 like the wonderful virtualizer that it is, and also like a dual DAC/amp with individual PEQing. Best of both worlds.
Virtualizer mode => HPEQ, and regular DAC/amp mode => PEQ. I hope I'm correct.

 

[musicreo]

Just out of curiosity... Will you be creating your own PRIRs... Or will you rely solely on the measurements of others?

I don't have a Realizer but as I do measurements with Impulcifer I'm always very interested in measurement experiences. I don't understand why someone buys the very expensive Realizer and than just uses the BBC/Genelec rooms. I'm wondering why here is so little discussion about measurements at all, although this is the main part of the Realizer functions?

 

[fitzcaraldo215]

Just out of curiosity... Will you be creating your own PRIRs... Or will you rely solely on the measurements of others?

It is a shame. I sold my 7.1 Mch loudspeaker configuration, including Martin Logan electrostatic-hybrids, in late-2019 before I moved into a retirement community, well before it was possible to accept delivery of a Realiser. But, the apartment-style accomodations in the retirement community required a switch since late-Sept. to headphone listening with the Realiser. I am really quite, quite happy with the switch.

After the pandemic, my plans are to experiment with a reviewer friend in his home doing a PRIR, on a SACD-sourced 5.1 system, which includes Magicos, Pass amps, etc. But, I will most probably return to the professional rooms at the BBC or at Surrey University. They are purpose built and they have a swarm of Genelecs, which is a very high caliber, neutral speaker. I suspect that even my reviewer friend and his high end system has colorations in his room. Yes, DSP EQ is used. But, I expect the BBC/Surrey have much less of them.

 

[sander99]

It is a shame. I sold my 7.1 Mch loudspeaker configuration, including Martin Logan electrostatic-hybrids, in late-2019 before I moved into a retirement community, well before it was possible to accept delivery of a Realiser. But, the apartment-style accomodations in the retirement community required a switch since late-Sept. to headphone listening with the Realiser. I am really quite, quite happy with the switch.

After the pandemic, my plans are to experiment with a reviewer friend in his home doing a PRIR, on a SACD-sourced 5.1 system, which includes Magicos, Pass amps, etc. But, I will most probably return to the professional rooms at the BBC or at Surrey University. They are purpose built and they have a swarm of Genelecs, which is a very high caliber, neutral speaker. I suspect that even my reviewer friend and his high end system has colorations in his room. Yes, DSP EQ is used. But, I expect the BBC/Surrey have much less of them.

The thing is: Most people will have a much more realistic out-of-head experience with their own personal made PRIR. And a realistic simulation of a less perfect system may be much more pleasurable than a less realistic simulation of a perfect system. (And you don't need 16 or 24 real speakers to measure your own personal 16 or 24 channel PRIR.)

It could be that you are lucky and your personal HRTF matches the BBC/Surrey PRIRs well (possibly with the help of a ManLOUD HPEQ).
It could aslo be that you just don't know what you are missing (if you never tried a personal made PRIR).

 

[JonFo]

I sold my 7.1 Mch loudspeaker configuration, including Martin Logan electrostatic-hybrids

Well, hopefully soon you can sample the PRIR of my room once I get around to measuring the XStatic Theater (5.4.4 with MartinLogan Monoliths and a custom center).
I'm planning to do an async-mode measurement, but get hung up writing the instructions for myself. Got stuck at how to deal with the overheads.

Anyway, post-pandemic, if you are in the Atlanta area, welcome to come record a PRIR of your own using my Realizer and ESL system.

My SL3XC custom center, which is bolted to the top of my 4x15" InfiniteBaffle sub. The wall behind is covered in acoustic treatments. And sadly, all this is hidden behind the acoustically transparent screen.