[camillem]

Hi,
i did a preorder directly to Smyths, no kickstarter.
Does it change something if they fail to deliver ?
do i have more chance to get a refund ?

 

[mrtim6]

That’s THE million dollar question...

 

[TedTimmis]

Hi,
i did a preorder directly to Smyths, no kickstarter.
Does it change something if they fail to deliver ?
do i have more chance to get a refund ?

The difference between those who supported Kickstarter and those who bought by preorders is that the Kickstarter group simply made a bad investment while the pre-order group was defrauded. As such, the preorder group has a much stronger legal standing to pursue civil and criminal complaints while the Kickstarter group will likely be crap out of luck.

 

[musicday]

If i will get my Audeze Mobius headphones before i will go on holiday i will be happy, untill September, when i receive in my hands the A16

 

[Sanctuary]

You should be by our side as you would like real update about your A16 right? No more negative thoughts, please.

I wanted real updates over a year ago while some of the rest were acting like I was being too impatient, and that I should just shut up and be positive. Now it's like reading round table plans for a coup, which I find ridiculous. Also, as I said in a previous post, updates every two weeks don't mean anything if there's nothing of value to actually say. I would rather they didn't say anything if the only thing they have to add is another "we expect" claim, which never pans out.

 

[sahmen]

Update:


*Upon further reflection, it seems to me that a 2-pronged approach of sending to Smyth Research individual e-mails as well as grouped petitions would work best, as that will allow each participant to approach the issue in a way that suits their predilections best. The objective is to get the Smyths to respond, and respond favorably to our requests, and in the end, that is what is most important. Approaching this objective individually or collectively should matter less than the results we achieve with the help of the impressions we succeed in making upon the Smyth Research company, through our efforts... To those who want to send individual e-mails, I would suggest the following 4 steps for making the most effective impact:

1. Address your letter, not only to James Smyth, but to all the Smyth Customer service addresses that you can find, as that would make your e-mail less likely to be ignored and/or overlooked. In short, send your mail to all the following addresses simultaneously:


realiser-a16@smyth-research.com

James Smyth james@smyth-research.com

sales@smyth-research.com

info@smyth-research.com

lorr@smyth-research.com

The last address is that of Lorr Kramer, Smyth Research's American Rep. Ideally, I would also add the personal addresses of Stephen and Mike Smyth, if I could find them. If anyone knows what they are, please consider sharing them with the rest of us.

2. Place the expression "Realiser A-16 customer Relations" in the "Subject" bar of your e-mail. Here I am counting on the fact that if everyone writes to Smyth Research, indicating the subject with the same expression and wording, our correspondence will soon become easily identifiable, and difficult to ignore. Also the more they see that same expression in the subject line of e-mails they receive, the larger the size of this campaign's footprint will become.

3. Stating all your requests and/or petitions politely and courteously, briefly list all the concerns about communication lapses and related matters that you would like them to address.
Include the request for Smyth to take seriously their own promise to provide fortnightly updates to A-16 customers, and to use a consolidated customer mailing list that includes all backers and pre-orderers, which will ensure that their updates are distributed to all their A-16 customers. Pay the company any compliments that you consider them to have genuinely earned, without any exaggerations.

4. Resend the e-mail if you do not receive .a response from Smyth Research within 3 days.

For my part, I am going to send out a personal e-mail to Smyth Research, one in which I shall list some or all of the above concerns that we commonly identified.
I have also begun to receive requests from some members to be included in the group letters, and I shall send out one letter for each group of 10 requests I receive.

I imagine that this process will continue until the Smyths respond favorably to the request, notably, the one demanding that they act and remain truer to their own promise of sending all the
A-16 customers, one update every two weeks.

 

[sahmen]

I wanted real updates over a year ago while some of the rest were acting like I was being too impatient, and that I should just shut up and be positive. Now it's like reading round table plans for a coup, which I find ridiculous. Also, as I said in a previous post, updates every two weeks don't mean anything if there's nothing of value to actually say. I would rather they didn't say anything if the only thing they have to add is another "we expect" claim, which never pans out.

I can understand some of your frustration, as I am sure many others would, as we all share them, to one degree or another.. I am however opting to approach this whole effort with less cynicism than I think I can detect in some of your statements, because I think no matter how many delays and disappointments occur, it is far better for everyone (the Smyth Research. their customers, as well as the chances of the A-16 project itself) if we, as customers, are engaged in regular conversations and dialogues about the project and its progress with Smyth-Research. I find this approach to be more sound on several levels than the option of just sitting back, and taking the erratic communication practices of Smyth Research and their lapses in resignation and bitterness...

However, as e often say in audio, YMMV

 

[pbarach]

Confirmation bias. You didn't preorder so you are disposed to see the delay as validating your choice. If Smyth delivers, those who preordered still get their systems before you and at a far lower price. Of course, if they never deliver then you will have a great deal to crow about, but right now all you are is someone prematurely celebrating your bet as the roulette wheel continues to spin.

No, I am pointing out that the general optimism about getting the unit to market in timely fashion has turned into a lot of frustration and some pessimism among those posting here. And while you may be right that I'm satisfied with my decision about not pre-ordering because of the mounting delays and lack of communication with buyers/investors, I can live with being wrong about the decision. And I don't bet much in casinos or buy hundreds of $$ in lottery tickets either. BTW, I';m not crowing. I was looking forward to buying the A16 after having a chance to audition it--I'll be disappointed if it doesn't go into production.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

No, I am pointing out that the general optimism about getting the unit to market in timely fashion has turned into a lot of frustration and some pessimism among those posting here. And while you may be right that I'm satisfied with my decision about not pre-ordering because of the mounting delays and lack of communication with buyers/investors, I can live with being wrong about the decision.

As will I. But, personally, at this point, I don't think the tea leaves are at all hard to read. If, the product isn't ready for shipment in September, I believe it will never be. I'm with you in refraining from both the preorder and the kickstarter. Frankly with a product as complex as this and promising so much in addition to the hardware (like the network of PRIR partners), I wanted to see the thing materialize as a real product, be reviewed to determine its efficacy by something other than word of mouth, be measured by a reputable journal, and demonstrate it could provide the customer service for adjust user PRIRs, and also create BRIRs they promised . In short, all of that is one mighty tall order, and just supplying some boat anchor that can do a few of the things and have little field support won't get it for me.

If they come through with a home run, great. I'll dig deep into the piggy bank, and pony up the cash. (Way to mix those metaphors!) But if they don't, I'm willing to bet this won't be the last effort of someone to virtualize real speakers in a binaural process. In fact, I bet this process follows the model we have seen with room and speaker correction, where the first attempts were multi killobuck pieces of hardware, to be followed in a few years by even better performing pices of software like Dirac Live and aCCourate, costing only a few hundred dollars.

Keeping a tight grip on your pocketbook and letting the process play out might be the smartest play of all.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

No, I am pointing out that the general optimism about getting the unit to market in timely fashion has turned into a lot of frustration and some pessimism among those posting here. And while you may be right that I'm satisfied with my decision about not pre-ordering because of the mounting delays and lack of communication with buyers/investors, I can live with being wrong about the decision. And I don't bet much in casinos or buy hundreds of $$ in lottery tickets either. BTW, I';m not crowing. I was looking forward to buying the A16 after having a chance to audition it--I'll be disappointed if it doesn't go into production.

As will I. But, personally, at this point, I don't think the tea leaves are at all hard to read. If, the product isn't ready for shipment in September, I believe it will never be. I'm with you in refraining from both the preorder and the kickstarter. Frankly with a product as complex as this and promising so much in addition to the hardware (like the network of PRIR partners), I wanted to see the thing materialize as a real product, be reviewed to determine its efficacy by something other than word of mouth, be measured by a reputable journal, and demonstrate it could provide the customer service for adjusting user PRIRs, and also creating BRIRs as they promised . In short, all of that is one mighty tall order, and just supplying some boat anchor that can do a few of the things while having little field support won't get it for me.

If they come through with a home run, great. I'll dig deep into the piggy bank, and pony up the cash. (Way to mix those metaphors!) But if they don't, I'm willing to bet this won't be the last effort of someone to virtualize real speakers in a binaural process. In fact, I bet this process follows the model we have seen with room and speaker correction, where the first attempts were multi killobuck pieces of hardware, to be followed in a few years by even better performing pices of software like Dirac Live and aCCourate, costing only a few hundred dollars.

Keeping a tight grip on your pocketbook and letting the process play out might be the smartest play of all.

 

[musicday]

We just got wonderful Real news on the Mobius thread, including shipping dates etc.
I am hoping that we get a Shipping Date from Smyth Research this weekend !

 

[krismusic]

Update:


*Upon further reflection, it seems to me that a 2-pronged approach of sending to Smyth Research individual e-mails as well as grouped petitions would work best, as that will allow each participant to approach the issue in a way that suits their predilections best. The objective is to get the Smyths to respond, and respond favorably to our requests, and in the end, that is what is most important. Approaching this objective individually or collectively should matter less than the results we achieve with the help of the impressions we succeed in making upon the Smyth Research company, through our efforts... To those who want to send individual e-mails, I would suggest the following 4 steps for making the most effective impact:

1. Address your letter, not only to James Smyth, but to all the Smyth Customer service addresses that you can find, as that would make your e-mail less likely to be ignored and/or overlooked. In short, send your mail to all the following addresses simultaneously:


realiser-a16@smyth-research.com

James Smyth james@smyth-research.com

sales@smyth-research.com

info@smyth-research.com

lorr@smyth-research.com

The last address is that of Lorr Kramer, Smyth Research's American Rep. Ideally, I would also add the personal addresses of Stephen and Mike Smyth, if I could find them. If anyone knows what they are, please consider sharing them with the rest of us.

2. Place the expression "Realiser A-16 customer Relations" in the "Subject" bar of your e-mail. Here I am counting on the fact that if everyone writes to Smyth Research, indicating the subject with the same expression and wording, our correspondence will soon become easily identifiable, and difficult to ignore. Also the more they see that same expression in the subject line of e-mails they receive, the larger the size of this campaign's footprint will become.

3. Stating all your requests and/or petitions politely and courteously, briefly list all the concerns about communication lapses and related matters that you would like them to address.
Include the request for Smyth to take seriously their own promise to provide fortnightly updates to A-16 customers, and to use a consolidated customer mailing list that includes all backers and pre-orderers, which will ensure that their updates are distributed to all their A-16 customers. Pay the company any compliments that you consider them to have genuinely earned, without any exaggerations.

4. Resend the e-mail if you do not receive .a response from Smyth Research within 3 days.

For my part, I am going to send out a personal e-mail to Smyth Research, one in which I shall list some or all of the above concerns that we commonly identified.
I have also begun to receive requests from some members to be included in the group letters, and I shall send out one letter for each group of 10 requests I receive.

I imagine that this process will continue until the Smyths respond favorably to the request, notably, the one demanding that they act and remain truer to their own promise of sending all the
A-16 customers, one update every two weeks.

I'm not going to join your campaign because quite frankly you sound somewhat hysterical. I have enough problems in my life without getting worked up about a bit of audio kit. I backed the Kickstarter for £1,000 so long ago I cannot remember exactly when. I backed an exciting product. I am certain that Smyth are completely sincere. As to going belly up, didn't they recently take on a financial partner? I have formed the opinion that Smyth are brilliant software engineers and rubbish at CS. I'm pretty certain that the A16 will come to fruition. If not, I backed a Kickstarter. It failed. This happens. No hard feelings.

 

[pcfi]

I'm not going to join your campaign because quite frankly you sound somewhat hysterical. I have enough problems in my life without getting worked up about a bit of audio kit. I backed the Kickstarter for £1,000 so long ago I cannot remember exactly when. I backed an exciting product. I am certain that Smyth are completely sincere. As to going belly up, didn't they recently take on a financial partner? I have formed the opinion that Smyth are brilliant software engineers and rubbish at CS. I'm pretty certain that the A16 will come to fruition. If not, I backed a Kickstarter. It failed. This happens. No hard feelings.

+1

The objective is to get the Smyths to respond, and respond favorably to our requests ... I imagine that this process will continue until the Smyths respond favorably to the request.

This is a demand, not a request. Particularly when it comes to pestering their business partners with your sense of entitlement until you get what you want:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/smy...-relations-thread.885685/page-2#post-14401572

... and in the end, that is what is most important.

More important than letting Smyth get on with their work of completing/shipping the Realiser A16?

 

[musicday]

We all got to stay united in this, otherwise there is no point coming to Headfi to read the Realiser A16 thread, unless you haven't paid for it, and you are just reading out of curiosity and maybe consider a possible future purchase.

 

[sahmen]

I'm not going to join your campaign because quite frankly you sound somewhat hysterical. I have enough problems in my life without getting worked up about a bit of audio kit. I backed the Kickstarter for £1,000 so long ago I cannot remember exactly when. I backed an exciting product. I am certain that Smyth are completely sincere. As to going belly up, didn't they recently take on a financial partner? I have formed the opinion that Smyth are brilliant software engineers and rubbish at CS. I'm pretty certain that the A16 will come to fruition. If not, I backed a Kickstarter. It failed. This happens. No hard feelings.

And you sound so much like an obvious shill for the Smyths, or worse, a troll, that I seriously considered not responding to you at all...

+1


This is a demand, not a request. Particularly when it comes to pestering their business partners with your sense of entitlement until you get what you want:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/smy...-relations-thread.885685/page-2#post-14401572



More important than letting Smyth get on with their work of completing/shipping the Realiser A16?

"My sense of entitlement"?

You seem to be very conveniently forgetting one basic and fundamental aspect of this whole crisis:

Smyth Research itself makes this promise in every Welcome message they send out to buyers/backers :

"You are now a valuable customer to us and we will update you every two weeks on the development of the Realiser A16."

Those are the exact words from the e-mail I got from James Smyth when my deposit was paid...

However, it is Smyth Research who are far from living up to their end of even that modest promise. I have been a pre-orderer for nearly one year now, and I have received only one update, from Smyth, one which I officially had to request from Smyth after hearing about it from others on this site... Mind you I have not mentioned delays in the production schedule itself, which most people can understand... Just bad communication habits

If you haven't noticed there are backers/and buyers here who are already giving up on this project, and despairing about the prospect of ever seeing the A16 come to fruition, because of the dismal communication practices of Smyth Research... I for one do not find their suspicions and anguish to be misplaced

All others and I are trying to do, is attempting to hold Smyth Research to their own word, i.e. their own promise to keep us informed (which they have dismally failed at), and yet I am the entitled one, according to you?

I am "entitled" because I fo not want to give them a free pass for breaking their own word over and over again?

Tell me why I shouldn't call you a shill, an accomplice, an enabler of very sloppy--if not outright dishonorable--customer relations practices? Do you even have any investment in this project at all?