[sahmen]

Also worth adding the new "financial partner" in to the emails? Heavenly something?

Good call : I would consider adding them to the list if i can find their e-mail address.

 

[raband]

Good call : I would consider adding them to the list if i can find their e-mail address.

https://www.heavenly-sound.com/our-story

Maybe sales, info, support @

 

[J.Villain]

https://www.heavenly-sound.com/our-story

Maybe sales, info, support @

I would start using this form. Your will probably get a reply that it isn't us, that is heavenly, but I would keep posting until they get ticked off and ask Siwei Zou to step in and get the Smyths off their latest vacation and back to work

https://www.seelectronics.com/get-in-touch/

 

[HairyHook]

+1 on the initiative. Hopefully we can trigger an update.

 

[mrtim6]

It’s now the 12th August and I have heard back nothing from Jame Smyth - no surprise here.

I was somewhat surprised by the backlash by the trolls in the other realiser thread. I was accused of being a dictator and called an ass**** in a pm by Vandyman. Unfortunately unpleasant trolls like Vandyman do absolutely nothing positive in these threads and derail any positive discussions.

Has any collective email message been sent to the Smyths?

 

[sahmen]

It’s now the 12th August and I have heard back nothing from Jame Smyth - no surprise here.

I was somewhat surprised by the backlash by the trolls in the other realiser thread. I was accused of being a dictator and called an ass**** in a pm by Vandyman. Unfortunately unpleasant trolls like Vandyman do absolutely nothing positive in these threads and derail any positive discussions.

Has any collective email message been sent to the Smyths?

I'm glad you brought this up. I have not sent out any collective e-mail as yet, because, so far, I have only received 3 volunteer names, and sending out a collective petition with only 4 petitioners (3 + moi) would appear quite pathetic, IMHO, and is not likely to impress the Smyths at all, talk less of shaking them out of their apparent indifference to customer sentiments or relations, whatever the causes of it might be... I have not even sent out my own personal e-mail to the Smyths for the same reason... What would the point be?

I have to say that I am rather surprised by the tepidness of the response others have shown, because most posters on here seem to be genuinely frustrated by the Smyths' lack of communication, in spite of their apparent unwillingness to do anything concrete about that frustration... That has got me wondering about the motivations behind that apparent buyers'/backers' apathy... Not that this apathy is even the worst of it... There are folks here who seem to prefer making unwarranted and unfounded excuses (based solely on empty speculations) to rationalize and even justify the behavior of the Smyths, as opposed to letting the Smyths know that their behavior is unacceptable (actually way past unacceptable for many of us : Unacceptable pattern of behavior : a highly erratic and inconsistent update policy, a production/delivery calendar that is more than a year behind schedule; an apparent indifference to/unawareness of how customers might actually feel about those inconsistencies and that delay... etc. etc...)

To that extent, I really do not blame the Smyths for their acts of indifference, or at least not always : to date, we, as their customers have done nothing or next to nothing to make them see our frustration... Why would they want to change anything about their behavior under such circumstances? Companies rarely change abusive practices or policies voluntarily or willingly, if/when they're allowed to assume that their customers don't mind them. That's just Human Nature 101.

If someone keeps stepping on your toes on the bus or train, over and over again, and you keep turning the other cheek out of respect, too much reverence, fear, timidity, diffidence, or what have you, they might well wind up assuming that you're okay with the abuse, and maybe, that you even enjoy it secretly... Again that is Human Nature 101, and sadly, that is the situation in which I see many of us now, as backers and buyers of the A-16, most of the time, I'm afraid.

My current feeling is that, in spite of the frustrations expressed on this and the main A-16 thread, the default impression we are actually conveying to Smyth Research is that we do not really mind the abuse, and I do not know what else to do to encourage more backers/buyers to exercise their right to protest, however courteously and politely. To my mind, this posture has nothing to do with optimism, as there is nothing optimistic about knowingly consenting to one's own repeated abuse by the other party in such a contractual engagement.


As for the collective e-mail thing, I am sticking with the program I originally proposed: I shall send out one e-mail for every 10 petitioner names I receive, and that is just to give the effort enough of a footprint and credibility, as well as make it respectable and difficult to ignore, as a petition.

 

[mrtim6]

Fair enough Sahmen, I for one certainly agree with your comments.

I also agree with less than 10 headfiers a collective email is worthless. Pity so many people on headfi behave in such a negative way. I guess I should’ve been less optimistic and realised this communities lack of response and failure to agree on a basic reasonable requests is a reflection on today’s society or lack of community.

Some of these headfiers must have perceived the requests as tantermount to burning down Smyths HQ.

 

[sahmen]

Some of these headfiers must have perceived the requests as tantermount to burning down Smyths HQ.

Lol! I do not know what in hell is giving them that impression, but let me restate again, for the record, that this is about making our frustrations known, in as courteous and polite a .manner as possible. We do have right on our side, and do not need to scream, shout, or be needlessly confrontational. We simply have to remind the Smyths of their own pledges to their A-16 customers, and ask that they follow them in a more consistent way.

 

[462429]

I'm glad you brought this up. I have not sent out any collective e-mail as yet, because, so far, I have only received 3 volunteer names...

Sahmen, your initiative is praiseworthy, but let's be realistic - we already have the answer to the planed group e-mail:

"I must reiterate that the lack of updates is solely down to the hard work of the team getting the A16 ready"

And I hope you will agree with me that reiterations are nothing better than silence. Especially since they came to the point where they must change things they have already reported.
The real question would be - how is it possible that they must work so hard TWO LONG YEARS after the moment they showed us their FUNCTIONAL PROTOTYPE?!

 

[sahmen]

Sahmen, your initiative is praiseworthy, but let's be realistic - we already have the answer to the planed group e-mail:

"I must reiterate that the lack of updates is solely down to the hard work of the team getting the A16 ready"

And I hope you will agree with me that reiterations are nothing better than silence. Especially since they came to the point where they must change things they have already reported.
The real question would be - how is it possible that they must work so hard TWO LONG YEARS after the moment they showed us their FUNCTIONAL PROTOTYPE?!

Mikri : I saw the post you have referenced, but I did not take it as a satisfactory answer, because I thought it was that very logic of making updates contingent upon hard work or lack thereof that we wanted them to abandon in the first place, in favor of the fortnightly updates they originally promised to buyers and backers. It may not be immediately apparent, but that logic is rather bizarre : if working hard implies no regular updates, one must necessarily conclude that they can only produce regular updates when they are not working hard on the project, which is almost nonsensical... It also has the further absurdity of suggesting that other manufacturers involved in crowd-funded projects who actually care enough about their customers to give them regularly scheduled updates can do so because they do not work hard enough (or as hard as the Smyths do) on the project. But just how can such a logic be tenable, and withstand any scrutiny?

Personally, I suspect that the lack of updates we are discussing, has nothing to do with the intensity of work on the project, and that the main reason is simply because as buyers and backers, we have allowed them to get away with murder for far too long... so long that they have taken our acceptance of the abuse for granted.

When one thinks of it, how long does it take to send out an update of a couple of paragraphs or even sentences to a group of consumers if one already has one's customer mailing list fully set up and ready to go? I have been involved in several group-funded projects (Audeze, Yarra 3DX, Mark Waldrep of Aix Audio), and bought products from other direct-to-consumer manufacturers of boutique audio components and software (Sonic Studios [Amarra prducts], AudioGD, Emotiva, Sonore, Uptone Audio, Schiit Audio, Darin Fong Audio etc. etc)... Not only do many of such outfits have reps (and often their CEOs) participating in forums like ours, in order to engage with customers and answer questions; normally, it is actually when they're working hard on releasing an announced product that they step up on communications with their clients in order to share the excitement about the upcoming product and even work up more hype about it...

Personally, I am yet to sense any of that kind of infectious excitement from the Smyths (whom I have only seen on videos raving about their prototypes), and until I do, I am unable to take any news about an "imminent release" of the A-16 seriously... I really hope I am wrong about the Smyths, but I suspect I am not, sadly. But it is not really the delayed release date which bothers me most in this case, as such delays are typically common with all boutique manufacturers... (Although, I can easily agree with your idea that the delay of the A-16 has become increasingly massive, and perhaps even graduated to the "epic" league [unfortunately for poor us]).

What really bothers me is the lack of communication and transparency. If they were regular and consistent with providing those, it would make the delays far tolerable to me. However, we have already covered this ground several times, so I won't take it any further here.

 

[JohnEW]

Before I start this conversation I MUST say I an not a lawyer or anything to do with that profession.

When Smyth Research started their crowdfund for the Realiser A16 they had a prototype which they were showing off around the shows and although, I never tried the A16 many kickstarter and others had seen it working and agreed that it was a great product and worked.
On that information and enthusiasm that was shown, many had assumed that the A16 was nearing completion for market. Both Kickstarter and pre-order customers were in the understanding when the full amount or as pre-order paying the deposit, then being asked for the balance as per agreement when ordering that the A16 was with a 3-4 months until completion.

So what has happened?

The Realiser A16 has been developed and re-developed over and over again. The present A16 is a completely different beast from the original shown and tried. New HDMI, NEW AUDIO, NEW UI Interface + possibly other improvements under the bonnet, ATMOS UPDATES etc.

In the UK there is the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which Smyth Research has to conform to before the A16 comes to market.

These include:

Digital content

The Consumer Rights Act defines digital content as ‘data which are produced and supplied in digital form.’ Or in other words things like downloaded films, music, games and apps.

Just like goods, digital content must be:

of satisfactory quality
fit for a particular purpose
"Any free digital content that's supplied with goods, services or digital content that you've paid a price for. For example, a smart TV or any other product with digital content pre-installed."

This means that the software/firmware and hardware in the Realiser A16 MUST WORK before they are allowed to put the A16 on to the market. As the A16 has been modified many times the software/firmware has possibly had to be re-written to make it work. Updates to the firmware could be updated later but the A16 firmware has to work to a certain standard before it becomes "Satisfactory Quality & Fit For Purpose."

In the last Kickstarter June 2018 update, we were warned that there was problems with the firmware and they were working on it.

"We’ve finally started testing and debugging a firmware version that includes all the core features of the A16 headphone processor."
"we still need to simplify the user interface – it’s a bit daunting at the moment"
"providing us with valuable feedback – largely to simplify the interface"
James Smyth has clearly told us what has to be done before the A16 can be finalized for released to consumers. Many have asked for their Realiser A16 before these jobs are completed.

Smyth Research are not allowed by the "Consumer Credit Act 2015" to release the Realiser A16 until it is of Satisfactory Quality & Fit For Purpose"

When the Realiser A16 complies to all the UK laws on safety and regulation and works correctly, it will be released for public use.Until then we will just have to wait.

I agree that communication from Smyth Research should be better, but due to the upgrades in hardware and software/firmware that are done it looks as if there will be a great product when it's finally released

 

[Richter Di]

I'm glad you brought this up. I have not sent out any collective e-mail as yet, because, so far, I have only received 3 volunteer names, and sending out a collective petition with only 4 petitioners (3 + moi) would appear quite pathetic, IMHO, and is not likely to impress the Smyths at all, talk less of shaking them out of their apparent indifference to customer sentiments or relations, whatever the causes of it might be... I have not even sent out my own personal e-mail to the Smyths for the same reason... What would the point be?
...
As for the collective e-mail thing, I am sticking with the program I originally proposed: I shall send out one e-mail for every 10 petitioner names I receive, and that is just to give the effort enough of a footprint and credibility, as well as make it respectable and difficult to ignore, as a petition.

Maybe I did not get this right the first time. Should we send you our email address?

 

[sahmen]

Maybe I did not get this right the first time. Should we send you our email address?

Richter Di : Please do. I mentioned the request in the first post, but I suspect it easy to miss because of the length of the post itself ( I mean that lengthy posts often tend to discourage, rather than invite, reading, which is one of the.ironies of internet forum communications . I am guilty sometimes myself of opting to ignore certain forum post, solely on the basis of their apparently long length, so it does not surprise me when my own post get overlooked for the same reasons. Here it is, again:

"If you would like to be included in the customer e-mail petition to Smyth Research, please PM me your name, e-mail address, and head-fi handle, as well as what you would like to be included in the message if it is not already indicated in the poll, or on the thread."

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Personally, I suspect that the lack of updates we are discussing, has nothing to do with the intensity of work on the project, and that the main reason is simply because as buyers and backers, we have allowed them to get away with murder for far too long... so long that they have taken our acceptance of the abuse for granted

Oh lord. I'm out.

 

[sahmen]

Oh lord. I'm out.

Well now, that's quite cryptic and expressed in a rather unhelpful way.. I'm afraid . I cannot properly address your post if you do not say exactly what you dislike about mine... This is particularly relative to those expressions you have underlined...