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Recommendations for replacing Beyer T1

Discussion in 'High-end Audio Forum' started by logicaldisconnect, Aug 11, 2012.
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  1. LogicalDisconnect
    Hi all.
    I'm looking for something to replace my Beyer T1s and am hoping for some advice. The T1s are very transparent and detailed which I generally like but I have personally found them a bit bright and a bit distant. I'm looking for something with a fuller sound that's also more engaging and intimate. After my experience with the T1s, I'm not so concerned about it being perfectly neutral or balanced; I just want something enjoyable to listen to. I listen mostly to indie rock, post rock, electro/synthpop and ambient, with a bit of hip-hop and electronic on the side. Not so worried about classical, jazz, classic rock or that kind of thing.
    My previous headphones have all been fairly bright -- K701, MS2i, AD700, ER4S. Maybe I'm just getting tired of that kind of sound. I recently bought a pair of Beyer DT250s and while they're obviously less technically competent than the T1s and have their own problems, I'm finding them much more enjoyable to listen to and I'm not getting the kind of harshness and fatigue I'd get with the other headphones. I almost enjoy the narrower soundstage, though the DT250s sometimes sound a bit congested and I get some distortion in the bass.
    The alternatives I'm looking at currently are the LCD2, HiFiMan HE400/500 (HE6 is probably too hard to drive), the Alessandro MS-Pro (similar to the Grado RS1 I think) and possibly the AT W3000ANV, though any other suggestions would be appreciated. Doesn't matter whether it's open or closed except insofar as that affects the sound. Electrostats and the LCD3 are above my budget unfortunately -- let's say a max of $1500 AUD, preferably less.
    I'm running off a Talisman T33H (solid-state class A amp: http://www.talisman-audio.com/products/headphone/t33h.html), a Cambridge Dacmagic and AudioGD Digital Interface, and I don't intend to replace any of those at this stage.
    Any impressions and advice would be greatly appreciated!
  2. MomijiTMO Contributor
    You should sell your T1. :wink:

    The W3k is a bit... different. I'm not entirely sure if you would like it. There are better things for the $$$. Lots of people enjoy the HE-400 and HE-500. They aren't terribly expensive and measure well. :)
  3. namaiki
    Just wondering if you own the DT250-80ohm or 250 ohm? Besides the fact that it's easier to get the 80 ohm version, I'm guessing that you have the 80ohm version based on your description above.
    MomijiTMO, curious about what you mean about the W3k when you say it's something "different" and isn't quite "something with a fuller sound that's also more engaging and intimate"?
  4. LogicalDisconnect
    T1 is currently for sale [​IMG]
    The reviews I've read of the W3k seem to suggest it's fairly similar to the T1 except a bit more coloured, particularly in the mids. Probably not really what I'm looking for, but hard to say for sure.
    On the other hand, some of the descriptions I've read of the LCD2 make it sound like exactly what I'm looking for, but there also seem to be quite a few people who've tried it and found it too dark and unengaging or otherwise not liked it.
    namaiki, you're right -- I have the 80 ohm DT250. There seems to be a bit of a debate about whether the 80 and 250 ohm versions sound much different, but in the end I was looking for something that could be driven with my portable system for when I'm away from home and the 80 ohm version was easier to find and cheaper.
  5. MomijiTMO Contributor
    You'll either like or hate the W3k. It's a coloured phone.
  6. Lorspeaker
    MsPro is great for classicals...a kind of balance and clarity i often find myself in awe when i had it. 
    But not sure if thats what u want as a counter taste to T1.
    Maybe a RS1/i ??
    for closed cans..i would suggest u try out the denons, the sweet spot is the d7k...the debate is still on with the d7100 :) 
    i havent heard the hd700...but i doubt u will want the hd800.. i would want a tube/hybrid amp to go with.
    No go since u are not changing your s/s gears. :p
  7. MomijiTMO Contributor
    The T1s are up for sale.

    Looks like you are getting the same answer. MS Pros it is :D.
  8. pigwave
    I recommend you to audition a pair of LCD2. It definitely falls into the category of "fuller sound". While its unique sound signature and heavy weight may not be accepted by everyone.
    The W3000anv sounds articulate and enjoyable, but it doesn't have the "fullness" like the LCDs IMO.
  9. Chodi
    Both the LCD2 and the HE-500 have the sort of sound which is opposite to the T1. I have the HE-500 and the T1 and they really could not be more different. You have to consider the comfort factor as both the LCD and the HE-500 are much heavier than the T1 (by a great deal). If you have a strong neck and don't mind the weight I really think you should give the HE-500 a try. I really don't think anyone could call the HE-500 bright. 
  10. LogicalDisconnect
    Unfortunately there's no easy way for me to try anything before I buy it -- if I could, I don't think I'd be having this problem! The place I'm intending to buy from has a 20 day trial period, but I'm trying to avoid having to take advantage of it if possible.
    I think the W3k is probably out. I definitely don't want the HD800/700 after the T1. I'm not too much of a basshead so I'm not sure about the D7000/7100, and the things I've read about the D7100 don't make it seem like a huge step up (although impressions are scarce at the moment).
    Pros are definitely still in consideration.
    Chodi, it's interesting to read that you find the HE500 very different from the T1. I'd be interested to know a bit more about the main differences you find between them. I'd also be very interested to read impressions from anyone has owned/compared the HE500, LCD2 and T1.
  11. MEDO
    x2 Audeze LCD-2, i heard they can sound dark with a weak source, and also they can be very musical with transparent source. I prefer the denon D5k to T1 due it's fuller sound, the T1 sounds kinda thin against the D5k, sold them after 2 weeks.
    don't wait for people to give recommendations, i suggest you take a look at these links

    The Spectacularly Yummy Audeze LCD-2 LCD-3 Headphone Reviewed

    Audeze LCD-2: $995 Planar magnetic headphone, one of the world’s best!
    I think the Audeze are exactly the kind of sound you're looking for, either way don't rush into it, take your time to decide
  12. furyagain
    But. Will a warmer sound amp. Like tubes. Fix your problem?
  13. MomijiTMO Contributor
    I think he's done with his amp quest for now.
  14. LogicalDisconnect
    Yes -- I realise a different amp may make a difference, but I've settled with my current amp and DAC for the moment and am just concerned about finding suitable headphones!
  15. jerg Contributor
    You could always try to interpret some measurement plots from InnerFidelity..
    Beyer T1: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1.pdf
    HE-500: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE500.pdf
    LCD2r2: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2Rev2.pdf
    Just from the FR, you could see a somewhat resemblance between the shapes in T1 and HE500, with the HE500s being smoother overall with a much less peaky treble. The LCD2s are flatter still, but have pretty much no treble hump/peak around 10kHz (where most of the treble details, e.g. cymbal crashes, string plucks, all that) - which could mean you "lose" a lot of perceived detail if you prefer a decent treble presence in your listening.
    So it's more or less a gradient from very bright to very dark going from T1 to HE500 to LCD2r2.
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